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    Raj Venugopal

    Posts : 120
    Join date : 2013-01-21

    Hamstring muscle tear

    Post by Raj Venugopal on Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:28 am

    Last week I tore my hamstring. Inner head of my left leg.

    I was going for tani-otoshi on a heavier guy and my heel stuck in the mat and the leg got stuck and his weight stretched it out as he sprawled around to evade. The muscle tore immediately and I was intense pain. A week and change later and it still hurts, but not as bad. I originally thought it was a cramp, but the pain is totally different.

    Anyone here ever have this injury? Curious on other peoples experiences with this, and what to expect re rehab.

    Thanks!
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    afulldeck

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    Re: Hamstring muscle tear

    Post by afulldeck on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:39 am

    I tore my part of my hamstring in the mid 80s. Doctors said it would take a few months to heal, they were wrong. It took two years before I could run properly, reap properly, and squat properly. I had to take up speed swimming just to get exercise. The only people who seem to heal from serious hamstring injuries are those who take illegal drugs.


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    BillC

    Posts : 806
    Join date : 2012-12-28
    Location : Vista, California

    Re: Hamstring muscle tear

    Post by BillC on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:55 am

    Raj Venugopal wrote:Last week I tore my hamstring. Inner head of my left leg.

    I was going for tani-otoshi on a heavier guy and my heel stuck in the mat and the leg got stuck and his weight stretched it out as he sprawled around to evade. The muscle tore immediately and I was intense pain. A week and change later and it still hurts, but not as bad. I originally thought it was a cramp, but the pain is totally different.

    Anyone here ever have this injury? Curious on other peoples experiences with this, and what to expect re rehab.

    Thanks!
    So how far down your leg does that bruise run? Is it still purple or has it turned other interesting colors now?


    _________________
    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling

    Raj Venugopal

    Posts : 120
    Join date : 2013-01-21

    Re: Hamstring muscle tear

    Post by Raj Venugopal on Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:34 am

    No interesting colors. I iced immediately afterwards. Pain limited to about a 6" SPECIFIC area on the muscle.
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Location : the Holy See

    Re: Hamstring muscle tear

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:03 pm

    Raj Venugopal wrote:Last week I tore my hamstring. Inner head of my left leg.

    I was going for tani-otoshi on a heavier guy and my heel stuck in the mat and the leg got stuck and his weight stretched it out as he sprawled around to evade. The muscle tore immediately and I was intense pain. A week and change later and it still hurts, but not as bad. I originally thought it was a cramp, but the pain is totally different.

    Anyone here ever have this injury? Curious on other peoples experiences with this, and what to expect re rehab.

    Thanks!
    You are surprised that a torn muscle still hurts one week later. Seriously ?

    The recovery from muscle muscle injuries depends on a number of factors:

    - the extent of the tear (how large)
    - the kind and direction of the tear (straight, oblique, perpendicular to the fiber, encloses by the outside membranes or through them ?)
    - how fast and how well it is treated immedidately after the injury
    - how well the rehab is done
    - your age, gender and nutritional status

    Since you are asking all these questions I am speculating that your injury was poorly treated immediately upon occurring. I also assume that it isn't too bad of a tear since you are just complaining of pain but dont seem to have lost any function.

    If you didn't properly treat the muscle injury immediately when it occurred, there is nothing you can do about that anymore. Compressive bandages are critical as immediate treatment and so is absolute rest If one doesn't do this and the tear remains open, it will be filled up entirely with fibrosis, which is not normal muscle tissue, does not have the same stretchability and produces discomfort and pain. Basically you are developing scar tissue. It is the amount of this scar tissue that plays a role in how long your recovery will take nand how well it will be. Torn muscles may not be exercise and any macho behavior is stupid and you will bear the consequences. It must be immobilized in an adhesive bandage, unless it is in an area that it is impossible to do do so (such as your neck or your back). Any premature exercise can superimpose tendinitis or lead to premature tendinosis and adhesions.

    Not trying to be blunt, but really if you have had a muscle tear, then what a normal person would do is immediately upon the injury occurring, to consult a qualified physician who can actually examine the patient, his function and establish a diagnosis on the xtent of the injury and which measures need to be taken. And no there are no pills you can taken that will help the recovery.


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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Hamstring muscle tear

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:09 pm

    afulldeck wrote:The only people who seem to heal from serious hamstring injuries are those who take illegal drugs.
    Using anabolic steroids indeed can speed up the recovery due to an aritificial increase in protein synthesis.

    Conversely, using anabolic steroids can lead to torn muscles because your muscles develop in an unnatural way and this may produce a discrepancy between the strength of the different units, i.e. the belly of the muscle, the tendon of the muscle, and the bone to which it is attached.

    One could always consider becoming a woman. Women have less torn muscles because their muscles have higher stretchability due to estrogens. There are other advantages since you can then participate in the women's categories and have a and advantage in strenght-to-size ratio. Your children and friends might be proud of you when you show them that you are one of few judoka who was a champion in both the men's and women's division. So, positive thinking is everything, and don't mind the slight discomfort in the lower regions !


    Last edited by Cichorei Kano on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."

    Raj Venugopal

    Posts : 120
    Join date : 2013-01-21

    Re: Hamstring muscle tear

    Post by Raj Venugopal on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:18 pm

    After the injury I was immobilized and the injury was iced. For two days afterwards it was ice for 20 minutes every two hours or so, leg elevated. No physical activity. I had to go to an academic conference which (in this case thankfully) meant lots of sedentary time- but out of town so seeing my doctor was not possible. Of course with our public health system, seeing a doctor for a non-life threatening injury can take weeks. I'm not surprised that it's still painful... just monitoring where and how bad. No stretching, no weights, not much walking. I'm in my early 40s so healing is definitely something I take seriously, and takes longer!
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Hamstring muscle tear

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:26 pm

    Raj Venugopal wrote:After the injury I was immobilized and the injury was iced. For two days afterwards it was ice for 20 minutes every two hours or so, leg elevated. No physical activity. I had to go to an academic conference which (in this case thankfully) meant lots of sedentary time- but out of town so seeing my doctor was not possible. Of course with our public health system, seeing a doctor for a non-life threatening injury can take weeks. I'm not surprised that it's still painful... just monitoring where and how bad. No stretching, no weights, not much walking. I'm in my early 40s so healing is definitely something I take seriously, and takes longer!
    Thanks for the additional info. But was the injury treated also immediately with a compression bandage ?

    Because of the nature of the hamstrings, recovery from a pulled or torn hamstring has a very wide window even if in the same person. Even if the injury is identical in size even then the window of recovery is very large. It will, for example, also depend on where the injury is located. The closer you get to its attachment usually the longer it takes for it to heal. Healing is quicker the more in the middle it occurs because that area has much better blood circulation. But the size of the injury and whether the tear is vertical or horizontal also strongly determines the outcome.


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    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."

    Raj Venugopal

    Posts : 120
    Join date : 2013-01-21

    Re: Hamstring muscle tear

    Post by Raj Venugopal on Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:32 pm

    I did not realize compression was this important. I missed the boat on that, but will incorporate this when reintroducing light activity. No compression at time of injury, or in the 48 hours afterwards.
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    afulldeck

    Posts : 377
    Join date : 2012-12-30

    Re: Hamstring muscle tear

    Post by afulldeck on Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:43 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    afulldeck wrote:The only people who seem to heal from serious hamstring injuries are those who take illegal drugs.
    Using anabolic steroids indeed can speed up the recovery due to an aritificial increase in protein synthesis.

    Conversely, using anabolic steroids can lead to torn muscles because your muscles develop in an unnatural way and this may produce a discrepancy between the strength of the different units, i.e. the belly of the muscle, the tendon of the muscle, and the bone to which it is attached.

    One could always consider becoming a woman. Women have less torn muscles because their muscles have higher stretchability due to estrogens. There are other advantages since you can then participate in the women's categories and have a and advantage in strenght-to-size ratio. Your children and friends might be proud of you when you show them that you are one of few judoka who was a champion in both the men's and women's division. So, positive thinking is everything, and don't mind the slight discomfort in the lower regions !
    Consider? Isn't that what happening already? I swear, my testosterone is leaking out of me like Victoria Falls. I cry like a baby every time I see littlefoot's mother get killed in the Land before time. Heading for Man boobs in the next 10 years. I suspect by the time I'm 90 I'll be fully female. Isn't that normal?


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    “I have never wished to cater to the crowd; for what I know they do not approve, and what they approve I do not know.” ... Epicurus at Sen. Lucil, 29.10
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    BillC

    Posts : 806
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    Re: Hamstring muscle tear

    Post by BillC on Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:54 pm

    Raj Venugopal wrote:I did not realize compression was this important. I missed the boat on that, but will incorporate this when reintroducing light activity. No compression at time of injury, or in the 48 hours afterwards.
    R-I-C-E ... that's what they tell you in the medical section of coaching and teaching clinics ... for what they are worth! But I am not sure how much of a difference that makes. I've done this a couple times myself, six months of hobbling is expected, as is re-injury early on.

    With your name I am guessing you might be somewhat darker complected than my pale self, but if you have no bruising whatsoever that is encouraging. Especially at your age if you do a really good job you are gonna leak juice inside and it is going to follow gravity. If you did a good job you'd have a dark stain under the skin near the back of your knee.

    Good luck sir on your rehab!


    _________________
    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling
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    Cichorei Kano

    Posts : 1948
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Age : 857
    Location : the Holy See

    Re: Hamstring muscle tear

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:58 pm

    afulldeck wrote:
    Consider? Isn't that what happening already? I swear, my testosterone is leaking out of me like Victoria Falls. I cry like a baby every time I see littlefoot's mother get killed in the Land before time. Heading for Man boobs in the next 10 years. I suspect by the time I'm 90 I'll be fully female. Isn't that normal?
    I believe that 'normal' and 'abnormal' are no longer politically correct terms when referring to people. Maybe we should say something like "deferred acceptability in the standard category of carbon-based life forms". The majority of people will have to think too hard to arrive at the conclusion of whether they have been offended or not ...


    _________________


    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
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    afulldeck

    Posts : 377
    Join date : 2012-12-30

    Re: Hamstring muscle tear

    Post by afulldeck on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:11 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    afulldeck wrote:
    Consider? Isn't that what happening already? I swear, my testosterone is leaking out of me like Victoria Falls. I cry like a baby every time I see littlefoot's mother get killed in the Land before time. Heading for Man boobs in the next 10 years. I suspect by the time I'm 90 I'll be fully female. Isn't that normal?
    I believe that 'normal' and 'abnormal' are no longer politically correct terms when referring to people. Maybe we should say something like "deferred acceptability in the standard category of carbon-based life forms". The majority of people will have to think too hard to arrive at the conclusion of whether they have been offended or not ...
    That needs to be someone signature.


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    Re: Hamstring muscle tear

    Post by Guest on Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:55 am

    Raj Venugopal wrote:Last week I tore my hamstring. Inner head of my left leg.

    I was going for tani-otoshi on a heavier guy and my heel stuck in the mat and the leg got stuck and his weight stretched it out as he sprawled around to evade. The muscle tore immediately and I was intense pain. A week and change later and it still hurts, but not as bad. I originally thought it was a cramp, but the pain is totally different.

    Anyone here ever have this injury? Curious on other peoples experiences with this, and what to expect re rehab.

    Thanks!
    I don’t know what your skill level is but I swear, in all the years I have been reading various Judo forums tani otoshi is that one technique that really injures a lot of people. It is one of those commonly misunderstood throws in Judo. Often times it is heavier and slower beginners who use it often because they are desperate to get a throw that they just tangle you up and try to drag you down…..which of course is not tani otoshi.

    Anyway, in regards to the hamstring injury I have torn both of my hamstrings because of being forced to swing the leg doing uchimata uchi-komi. Both of my hamstrings do not function quite like they used to and my range of flexibility is limited. If you have an actual tear you are going to have to give it time to heal. Mine are impacted so much so that if I do a lot of uchimata uchi-komi where I’m swinging the leg I inevitably reinjure the hamstring. I refuse to swing the leg when doing uchi-komi these days because there is no resistance from keeping the leg extending higher than necessary. My uchimata is different than what I did years ago but it’s different for the better. I used to use a big leg action but as a result of the injury my leg doesn’t really do any lifting but merely acts as a guide. It’s hard to explain. So, in some ways I’m grateful for the injury because my uchimata is better.

    Raj Venugopal

    Posts : 120
    Join date : 2013-01-21

    Re: Hamstring muscle tear

    Post by Raj Venugopal on Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:01 am

    I am brown belt, but that says nothing of skill level one way or another! ; )
    In this situation my heel got stuck on the mat, not sure if it was at a mat intersection or 4 corner, but it stuck and in that instant uke's weight had no where to go. I know what you're talking about though. I have posted on the version of tani I was trying, which is to get uke moving a bit upwards and backwards, and driving the attacking leg upwards as if to lift first, then reap uke's legs out from under him.

    The pain is subsiding, but when I stretch it hurts now. Scar tissue I imagine. I have to work on this for sure.

    One of the instructors suggested compression shorts may help.

    Thanks for the good wishes! And yes... my skin is somewhat darker... lol.


    Thanks![/quote]I don’t know what your skill level is but I swear, in all the years I have been reading various Judo forums tani otoshi is that one technique that really injures a lot of people.  It is one of those commonly misunderstood throws in Judo.  Often times it is heavier and slower beginners who use it often because they are desperate to get a throw that they just tangle you up and try to drag you down…..which of course is not tani otoshi.

    Anyway, in regards to the hamstring injury I have torn both of my hamstrings because of being forced to swing the leg doing uchimata uchi-komi.  Both of my hamstrings do not function quite like they used to and my range of flexibility is limited.  If you have an actual tear you are going to have to give it time to heal.  Mine are impacted so much so that if I do a lot of uchimata uchi-komi where I’m swinging the leg I inevitably reinjure the hamstring.  I refuse to swing the leg when doing uchi-komi these days because there is no resistance from keeping the leg extending higher than necessary.  My uchimata is different than what I did years ago but it’s different for the better.  I used to use a big leg action but as a result of the injury my leg doesn’t really do any lifting but merely acts as a guide.  It’s hard to explain.  So, in some ways I’m grateful for the injury because my uchimata is better.
    [/quote]

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