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    2013 Worlds, 63k final

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    tafftaz

    Posts : 330
    Join date : 2012-12-31
    Age : 52
    Location : Wales, UK

    Re: 2013 Worlds, 63k final

    Post by tafftaz on Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:05 am

    My reply from a slightly earlier discussion of this topic :

    I was talking to one of the national coaches a while back about below the belt skirt issues and he was in the same mindset as CK. After attending an IJF rules meeting he was told that once the gi has been pulled free of the belt then there is no "skirt below the belt to grab", so as long as the gi does not encircle the neck then choke is legal.
    I found this hard to believe, but as it is his job to be up to date on current IJF rules I find it hard to disbelieve him.
    Tucked in the belt-illegal
    Outside the belt legal.

    Fine lines indeed. As I said in another post regarding this choke ,interpretation is everything in shiai. One ref might call it, another will not.

    Quick thinking on Gerbi's part though and a nice, strong choke (we tried it last week).

    davidn

    Posts : 32
    Join date : 2013-01-09
    Age : 45
    Location : northern CA

    Re: 2013 Worlds, 63k final

    Post by davidn on Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:52 am

    We had our first tournament of the season this past weekend. I asked an IJF A referee about this choke. He was familiar with the choke and said he would not have scored it (in his opinion, not legal). He also added that since the referee committee of the IJF was watching and did not change it (even after 2nd time) it's basically legal unless they come back and tell us otherwise. He also added that at this point, there's not much they can do either, it's not fathomable that a month later they go back and reverse the call.
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    Ryvai

    Posts : 159
    Join date : 2013-07-16
    Location : Norway

    Re: 2013 Worlds, 63k final

    Post by Ryvai on Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:40 am

    Wow, I did not see there already was a thread regarding this choke before I make my thread in the technique section. Anyway.. Smile

    This choke, which is a henka of kata-te-jime under Kodokan Judo, has been discussed worldwide at great lengths now and the conclusion are simple, 100% legal choke. Here is why:
    -Once the lower part of the jacket is outside the belt it is concidered above the belt and an extension of the eri all the way to bottom (suso), thus no longer the skirt.
    -If tori unfolds his gi in an attempt to attack, like Gerbi did, it is NOT shido. Special acceptions can be made for this choke in particular, referees use common sense.
    -The lapel is not encircling any part of uke's body. The keyword being encircling, which this choke does not do.

    Franky De Moor (EJU Referee commision) explained this to us in person. No illegalities here, just clever use of Judo. He also said they are concidering changing the rules after this choke. So that these rules becomes more clear, and allowing these types of chokes. As long as it is illegal to fully encircle any part of the body of uke, there is no use for this rule.

    NOTE: If the gi is outside the belt, you can also perform a variation of Kata-guruma holding the suso (lower part of the gi) and actively use your arm to push against the leg of Uke. I believe this variation has similarities with K. Mifune's tama-guruma, you can check it out. As long as you still have a grip in the jacket you can actively use your arm, if you let go it becomes hansoku-make.

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