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    Judo come back for an "older" guy.

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    Missile

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    Join date : 2013-09-21

    Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by Missile on Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:31 pm

    Hi there,

    i don't know if i posted this topic in the right section. If not, well, i apologize.

    I started judo when i was 7 and i stopped just before i got my black belt due to injury  at the age of 17. (shoulder). I went to university,got i job, a wife and
    now i realize that in my mid 35s i want to get back to it and may be get my black belt(i have all the necessary point ). Actually, i tried a come back when i was 28 and alought it when pretty well and felt really well on the tatami, got injured again(but was my fault and own stupidity). However, now being in the mid 30 is not the same has being in the 20s and to be honest i'm kinda hesitating to do a come back. I already have  mild sign of cartilage wear in my knees, more specificaly the left knee. I never totally recover from a shoulder injury too. Also, i don't want to be 50 or 60 and be a cripple. I was may be thinking to join BJJ club instead while it seems to be easier on the body.

    I just want your opinion for you guy in their 30s,40s,50s. How do you find your judo training? Do you feel like
    your body is destroyed? Like an old car that has been beaten up !

    Thanks!
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    Stacey

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    Re: Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by Stacey on Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:05 pm

    my body was destroyed long before I hit my 30's. 40's suck, but with decent medical care and paying attention to your injuries, you can be just like me, and sew your own thumb back together.
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    Steve Leadbeater

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    Location : Sydney Australia

    Re: Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by Steve Leadbeater on Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:31 pm

    Old cars are easier to work on than the modern ones...........just more expensive to keep running.

    Age is a state if mind...........come back......apply yourself.........obtain your Black belt.
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    Stacey

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    Re: Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by Stacey on Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:54 am

    Steve Leadbeater wrote:Old cars are easier to work on than the modern ones...........just more expensive to keep running.

    Age is a state if mind...........
    yes, it's called "dementia"


    Steve Leadbeater wrote:
    come back......apply yourself.........obtain your Black belt.
    I heartily agree

    Hanon

    Posts : 537
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by Hanon on Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:06 am

    Missile wrote:Hi there,

    i don't know if i posted this topic in the right section. If not, well, i apologize.

    I started judo when i was 7 and i stopped just before i got my black belt due to injury  at the age of 17. (shoulder). I went to university,got i job, a wife and
    now i realize that in my mid 35s i want to get back to it and may be get my black belt(i have all the necessary point ). Actually, i tried a come back when i was 28 and alought it when pretty well and felt really well on the tatami, got injured again(but was my fault and own stupidity). However, now being in the mid 30 is not the same has being in the 20s and to be honest i'm kinda hesitating to do a come back. I already have  mild sign of cartilage wear in my knees, more specificaly the left knee. I never totally recover from a shoulder injury too. Also, i don't want to be 50 or 60 and be a cripple. I was may be thinking to join BJJ club instead while it seems to be easier on the body.

    I just want your opinion for you guy in their 30s,40s,50s. How do you find your judo training? Do you feel like
    your body is destroyed? Like an old car that has been beaten up !

    Thanks!
    You asked an honest question so I will write an honest answer.

    If you need to join a forum and ask for advice plus use the term "Hesitation" in your question I would suggest against a return to judo for you.

    At your age you should be wise and understand the world and how your mind and body works, what you are capable of. Age is not your handicap, with great and sincere respect, its your mental state of mind or put bluntly your attitude. If you enter a dojo with hesitation and feelings of doubt you WILL AGAIN get hurt and the older you are the worse the injury.

    If you truly have a burning desire to return to a dojo without any reservation I would have written, go for it BUT use your loaf,  accept your limitations and take one slow step at a time. I am concerned for you. Wrong mentality equals screwed body.

    Are you even closely certain you want to return to judo?.........Judo bits. Judo smells fear and hesitation and will take advantage of it.

    The other vital aspect is what the dojo environment would be like? What sort of judo club is it? Who is the sensei? Are you going to be respected or used a canon fodder?

    sorry I could not write what you wanted to read. Age has zero to do with it, its attitude. Be honest with yourself.

    Kindest regards. Let us know what you decide.

    Mike


    _________________
    WARNING. I write as a pupil of judo. what I write should be researched by the reader and not accepted as in any way factual or correct.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking.
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    Heisenberg

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    Re: Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by Heisenberg on Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:54 am

    I started back at 31 after a decade off. Got my Shodan earlier this year. My conditioning isn't what it was in my teens and twenties and I'm not as fast, but I still toss the young bucks around. I guess my body "understands" judo better in my 30's than it did when I was younger. The mechanics make more sense.
    I've got shoulder issues, too (multi-directional subluxor). I just avoid a lot of pushups and morote seio-nage and I'm fine.


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    DrJudo

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    Re: Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by DrJudo on Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:07 am

    Sensei Hanon is right. Your attitude is your handicap. But if you can set aside your initial feelings and undertake judo with passion, you should have no problems. You can go to practice and do warm ups. Then, do some uchi-komi, and a few rounds of tachi-waza and ne-waza randori and at the end of the day, you will feel very satisfied. Actually, judo could give you back your lost energy. Just realize that you are no longer a teenager and don't need to over exceed yourself. Just tell your sensei how much you feel you can do. After you gain more confidence, you will feel that you can do a little more but again, know your limits and don't push yourself too hard. The bottom line is that judo can be performed at all ages but your state of mind plays a crucial role. Don't defeat yourself before entering the tatami. Good luck and please let us know what your plans are.
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:42 am

    All scenarios painted here are plausible. Whether they really apply to you, I can't say without seeing your move. On the other I also believe people deserve to be taken serious. Unfortunately a judo injury doesn't go away simply by imagining the injury doesn't really exist, and neither can you just do judo when you are in a lot of pain, just because you are very motivated. At the end of the day, every judoka at one point in his life gives up, all of them. Saying things like fall 7 times and get up 8 times is cliché that is not true. At the end of the day, we will all fall 8 times and get up only 7 times. All the rest are flashy one-liners.

    Attitude is indeed important, but it is not everything. I know many great champions who showed great attitude, and again, until their body was so ruined that their great attitude now had them sit in a wheel chair barely able to so 1/10th of a what an average person their age could to. Macho attitude in judo isn't the key to solving every physical problem either. But, as said, all scenarios are plausible.

    What I would recommend is a mixture of lessons you could draw out of the comments which you have received here. Don't be hesitant, be confident, but also don't be over-confident. Be confident in a realistic and pragmatic. Know your body. Know that a 16-year old can just start doing any exercise, while a 35-year old needs his warm-up, every stage of it, progressive, and the need for this only increases. Know your body, if the standard warmup isn't sufficient, continue your warm-up after the rest has stopped it and started other exercises. Tape things when necessary. Work towards judo, supple, smooth. Build up and dosage your training. If you're going to run a 400 m as if it were a 100 m, you'll be gassed after 160 m. You want to make through till the end of practice.

    When you get injuries, take care of them, promptly, rationally. Don't dramatize them, but also don't ignore them. Judo likes to use superlatives in either direction, but simply being pragmatic and realistic may work out the best.

    Also don't be too proud. If you start working out with your typical judo autist (and there are many of those in judo) who does not understand what it means to have your age, simply say "sorry, mate, I'm not up to your level, got to quit and take a breath, thanks for practice", and go catch your breath and grab a partner who can think in nuances and moderation.

    Oh, and also, practice at the club that is ... "right for you". Not every club is "right for everyone". Maybe the "Stanozolol Judo Club" isn't ideal for you, but another one with a narrower entrance door might be.


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    Hanon

    Posts : 537
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by Hanon on Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:05 pm

    I am afraid I disagree with many of my respected peers who even suggest a return to the tatami for Missile. Look at his history. He was injured sufficiently to enforce two long layoffs and as CK Sensei writes these injuries, or their after affects, are still there. Now though Missile is still young enough to theoretically learn and practice judo pray tell who is going to pay his mortgage, find him a new job after beiong laid of for six months if he gets another injury or makes an old injury worse?

    it is fine for us to sit in a chair at a key board and tell Missile to 'go for it'. Can we have a sponsor for him who will pick up his medical tab and pay his living costs if things go tits up YET AGAIN. Missile has a history of injuries, he has not got any younger. I feel it rather unwise to just be gung ho and suggest he return.

    Missile himself must asses the pros and cons and really search his soul and mind and weigh up the benefits against the possible negatives.

    IF IF IF Missile found a club with a more 'recreational' bend toward practice a more 'educational' take on judo, Missile 'could' be fine. Having written that looking at his history and present dodgy knee is it really wise to simply without any real help just suggest he make a return? I think not.

    Enough of that from me.

    Missile. First go see your GP and have your GP refer you for a full and extensive medical check up BY A SPORT INJURY SPECIALIST.
    Second, go observe as many judo clubs as you can.
    Third if you find a club that you identify as 'safe', speak to the sensei giving him or her a full history.
    Forth, if you do begin let all your peers know of your injuries.
    Fifth, warm up and stretch well EVERY LESSON. Never fail to practice ukemi.
    sixth, make yourself take small steps and ensure you develop self control.

    Does your wife support this idea?

    Use the wisdom of age and given time with the correct surroundings it is possible for you to continue studying judo. Balance out the pros and cons and ensure your dojo has medical insurance.

    Prioritise your life.

    Mike


    _________________
    WARNING. I write as a pupil of judo. what I write should be researched by the reader and not accepted as in any way factual or correct.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking.

    Hanon

    Posts : 537
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by Hanon on Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:23 pm

    Steve Leadbeater wrote:Old cars are easier to work on than the modern ones...........just more expensive to keep running.

    Age is a state if mind...........come back......apply yourself.........obtain your Black belt.
    Sorry Steve the red negative came from me. Life is not so black and white, sure age is a state of mind BUT take a look at Missiles history? Are you prepared to pay his mortgage and medical bills is he repeats it?

    I also think this attitude of practicing judo to obtain a black obi is part of the cause of the dilution of judo. There was a time when we stayed at the grade we where worth and many judoka spent the rest of their judo lives as a 2nd or 1st kyu. Today its taken as a given a black obi will be awarded.
    I am certain you will recall the days when it took 4 or 5 attempts to get 1st kyu and shodan, if it came at all, could take years of failing line ups!

    Oh and thank God we are not cars! If that had been the case I would have been in the scrap yard before 50 with the miles on my clock!

    You keep well and look after yourself, you hear!

    Mike


    _________________
    WARNING. I write as a pupil of judo. what I write should be researched by the reader and not accepted as in any way factual or correct.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking.
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    Steve Leadbeater

    Posts : 190
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    Age : 61
    Location : Sydney Australia

    Re: Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by Steve Leadbeater on Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:36 am

    Hi Mike Sensei,

    I am very well indeed and I thank you for asking about my health, I will in fact be competing in the Australian Masters Games (Judo) on 5th and 6th October thumbup1 


    My suggestion to Missile that he "Come back, apply himself and obtain his Black belt" was meant to encourage him along the journey that we (most of us anyway,) have already made.

    I agree that some rise to a level and sit there for ages, I was a 2nd Kyu for over 16 years and a 1st Kyu for 4 years, and didn't receive Kuro Obi until in my 40's.

    Surely, if Missile follows the directions of his own Medical Practitioner and the Club Sensei/Coach/Instructor he should have little to worry about, and there are many ways these days for obtaining Dan grade, if that is still his desire, than through "line up" or Competition.

    By the way..............There are some very beautiful Old cars that have been restored to their former glory, still running around and impressing people.

    Stay Well Sensei.


    **REI**

    Richard Riehle

    Posts : 79
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    Age and Judo

    Post by Richard Riehle on Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:23 pm

    Steve Leadbeater wrote:Old cars are easier to work on than the modern ones...........just more expensive to keep running.

    Age is a state if mind...........come back......apply yourself.........obtain your Black belt.
    I am 77.8 years old. Started Judo over sixty years ago at age 16.  Still throwing.  Still doing me waza.  Still taking falls.  Still doing light randori.   Last competed in 2009.  

    Get back to the dojo.  Do what you can.  The more you do, the better you will get, and the better you will feel.
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    judoratt

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    Location : Seattle

    Re: Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by judoratt on Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:32 pm

    Missile,
    I spent a significant amount of time away from judo from 16 to 25. I came back at 25, 4 months later went to japan for three months it changed my life. Find the right club, get back to judo and enjoy.

    gearo

    Posts : 1
    Join date : 2013-09-17

    Re: Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by gearo on Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:18 pm

    Hi, that's an interesting topic,

    I started Judo last year at the age of 36 !!! I have earned my Green Belt and is having such a great time discovering this Great Sport !
    I've never asked myself if i could do it or not... I just went for it... I'm a lightweight guy, so I'm still quite Fit and have a good sports background as I've never stopped playing sports since I was 16 years old... But this is the first time I'm practicing a Martial Art...

    Of course, during that year I got some minor injuries... mainly torn fingers and ankles... however, I don't feel that this is a real Barrier for me...

    I would think that someone who had practiced Judo in his early years would have less issues getting back, but maybe this is the issue... you just need to set your expectations right and accept that you're not 20 years old anymore

    Raj Venugopal

    Posts : 120
    Join date : 2013-01-21

    Re: Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by Raj Venugopal on Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:53 am

    I am 41. Started at 36. Have brown belt. I train as hard as the young guys. I do randori with them-national level competitors. I ease up when I'm hurt. I fight roughly within my "species." My fitness has improved tremendously, and I compete at -73 seniors and as of this year, in Masters. It is a blast. Treat it like chess but with the body, and have fun with it! Very Happy

    Hanon

    Posts : 537
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by Hanon on Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:11 am

    It is myopic, irresponsible and dangerous to write cart blanche to Missile that he should just return to judo regardless.

    All and every pupil has specific needs. Missile has a history of old and present injuries. May I make a serious request that before another well meaning poster writes "Just get back on the mats, look at me I am okay" That one reads Missiles initial post!

    The oldest person to run the marathon was said to be in their late 90's it was claimed 100. The youngest was THREE years of age, thankfully her 'coach' was imprisoned.
    Now go tell me to run a marathon because you have and the consequences for me could and probably would be fatal as I suffer diabetes and  hypoglycaemia.

    It is totally irresponsible to simply write he should make a return to judo without further assistance and information. I cannot believe how well meaning some of you are and so bloody naïve. We are not debating US we are trying to advise Missile.

    Mike


    Last edited by Hanon on Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:12 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)


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    WARNING. I write as a pupil of judo. what I write should be researched by the reader and not accepted as in any way factual or correct.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking.
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    Fritz

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    Re: Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by Fritz on Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:33 am

    Reading the original post, i would say: Missile belongs to a "risc group" - the group
    of people coming back at the tatami, with movement patterns in their mind, which stems
    from their age of 16 or so... Unfortunately their bodies are not able to do all these
    fancy things the brain suggest while remembering the good old days...

    If Missile would have said: Ok i'm now 31, my body is a little bit broken, but i'm rembering that i've
    got a lot of pleasure at Judo in my youth and i want to restart, should i take my white belt, then
    i would say: Ok, restart, but do it slowly and carefully, be patient with your self while relearning
    all the stuff, maybe you feel better with that...

    But he states: "want black belt", then our alarm bells shall ring, and then he states he was trying a restart some years before and got hurt, then the bells ring very loud...

    Long years ago we had exactly such case in our club, a returner goes in a randori with
    one of us, tries to fight (without real reason) and was hurt at the knee (his fault) ...
    Ok, shit happens... :-(
    Then he could not appear a long time because of medical rehabilitation, then he came back and
    repeated his silly behaviour a second time (same randori partner, same mindset, same silly movement, same damage) - at my knowledge the last time he was on a judo mat...

    And this was a "good" case, the bad case would be, if such returner would hurt other
    people... sometimes they try this before hurting theirself :-(


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    Gus

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    Re: Judo come back for an "older" guy.

    Post by Gus on Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:22 pm

    Im 40 and train 4 - 5 times a week though I haven't broken from training too long - I stated when I was 34. Because Ive been traveling a lot for work I havent graded in a few years so also hope to get my black in the next 12 months as I m still a blue belt - if I can get round the local federation and club politics that is....  
    I have no problem doing hard randori with guys in their twenties - in fact  I enjoy it and I get the better of the little brats more than half the time. I have learnt to stay light loose though.
    Like anyone take it easy at first and stretch properly you'll be fine. I know someone who just won their black by lineup aged 46 - he won five fight sin a row against guys in their twenties .
    I dont know the ecct nature of your injuries - but find a club devoid of dickheads and you should be ok.
    Sure Judo can cause a lot of injuries - but on the whole Id say the health benefits are greater if practiced properly - I guess coming into it properly at 34 I didnt have a backlog of injuries.

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