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    Knives and self defence

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    Tai-Jutsu

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2013-09-19
    Location : Woodbridge,Va. USA

    Re: Knives and self defence

    Post by Tai-Jutsu on Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:55 pm

    NBK wrote:I have mixed emotions about training barehanded against knives.  Most I've seen doesn't include much of the common sense stuff - avoidance and distanct - use furniture, clothing, scream like a banshee, throw everything including the kitchen sink at your attacker.  Often it seems the attacks are about rage or intimidation - Lichtenfeld wrote about the necessity to understand that you're going to get cut, perhaps badly, but you have to keep going.  His data was that you don't likely don't get stabbed once, you get cut to shreds, and too many people just stopped once they're cut with a non-lethal first jab.  

    Someone wrote about the utility of a cane.  

    When it came to self defense against weapons, in the early 1930's Kano shihan wrote that the best weapon, aside from swords, which no one but specialists like military police could carry (and apparently ignoring sidearms) was what he called the 'bo', which means staff, but is now what modern martial artists would call a jo.  Readily available, the training can be used with a number of alternatives, etc. etc.  

    He also wrote his plan was to incorporate its training into judo and spread it throughout the world along with judo.  

    I trained in Shinto Muso ryu jodo for years.  It is the modern version of what Kano shihan arranged to be taught in the Kodokan ('to about 80 senior members of the KDK' IIRC offhand), and the attacker has a tachi, a full sized Japanese sword.  Performed correctly you have a safe range from which to pummel your attacker, break his wrist, split his skull, jab out an eye or two, or in the modern Japanese police non-lethal incantation, break his collarbone.  

    Against a normal sized knife, with a jo you've got lots of stand off distance, and a bare forearm or tee shirt makes for a real rotten guard against a quickly swung or thrust chunk of oak.  What really gets people who aren't accustomed to sparring with them is the quick reversals and side swings.  With practice you can modify to accommodate closer quarters or a shorter jo, such as a cane, or use techniques from something like Uchida ryu tantojutsu.  

    One of the added benefits in countries like the US, with the Americans with Disabilities Act, I understand that you cannot even be asked why you carry a stout walking stick or cane.  Don't know about inside a/c.   Just don't try to carry a sword cane, which is a concealed weapon in most every state I think.  

    NBK
    Great points about the knife. If you can at all arm yourself, you shoudl and again there is where weapons training can pay off. It does not have to be some Ranger Combat SEAL Deathblade II by Hate Co. knife or a Katana or a Machette, it can be an umbrella, a cane, walking stick, stick from the ground, bottle, chair, ball point pin, glass ashtrays (more common when I was younger and have grabed 2 with bad intent in my life) books, ect.

    Every instructor that I have trained with who I feel knew what they were talking about all used some variation of "Expect to get cut, try hard not get stabbed and keep going no matter what if cut or stabbed, clock will be ticking"


    We do some nice stuff with Parachute cord that my old Sempai trained us in. Comes from older HoHo Jutsu (If I got that right) Kuk Sool Won and just some stuff he and Rick Fike came up witth and tightly rolled up magazine is a hit.

    I train with Arnis and I love sticks and canes. Walking sticks are great for outside.

    I was lucky enough to attend a couple of lessons from George Bristol in Jo technies from I think Yaga Shinkage Ryu at our old Ju Jutsu school and I loved the directness and the few things I leanr I have practiced and used in full contact against Arnis guys to good effect.

    It's a good weapon for a man of peace IMO.

    Thank you for your insights NBK, you do seem to live the dream for a martial artist.

    Beef Supreme

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    Join date : 2013-10-15

    Re: Knives and self defence

    Post by Beef Supreme on Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:44 am

    Quicksilver wrote:Greetings all,

    It seems to be a not uncommon position that carrying a knife with the intention of using it to defend oneself is a very bad idea because in most cases it is significantly more likely to be used on the carrier than on their hypothetical assailant. 'Course there are many variables at play, but what (and I ask more out of interest than any particularly practical motivation) are your thoughts on this, in agreement or otherwise?


    Regards.
    I'll stick to your question without going into a broad debate. I see that you assume that there's a good chance of losing the knife in fight. In that case, better don't carry it at all. As simple as that. The same goes for a weaponless defense. If you expect to get beaten, don't resist. However, it's a pointless discussion since the very idea of gearing up for defense (with or without a weapon) is to be able to utilize your skills to win, not to lose.
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    kiti

    Posts : 35
    Join date : 2013-01-02
    Location : Arizona

    Re: Knives and self defence

    Post by kiti on Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:27 am

    Interesting discussion. I carry a pocket knife, but I generally use it for cutting stuff, esp. coupons. I don't imagine I would ever attempt to use it against a human attack. Before I bought my knife, I used to hike alone, and usually carried a rock or two. The place where I like to hike is full of javelinas which scare me the most, and also full of bobcats and coyotes which scare me a little less than javelinas, and is known mountain lion territory although those are so rare I have never seen one. So anyway, after I bought my knife I carried that too when hiking, and then I added pepper spray that I also carry. But now I have a friend I hike with so I almost never hike alone anymore and besides my mom forbade me from hiking alone, which makes me think twice but doesn't stop me.
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    BillC

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    Location : Vista, California

    Re: Knives and self defence

    Post by BillC on Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:10 am

    kiti wrote:Interesting discussion.  I carry a pocket knife, but I generally use it for cutting stuff, esp. coupons.  I don't imagine I would ever attempt to use it against a human attack.  Before I bought my knife, I used to hike alone, and usually carried a rock or two.  The place where I like to hike is full of javelinas which scare me the most, and also full of bobcats and coyotes which scare me a little less than javelinas, and is known mountain lion territory although those are so rare I have never seen one.  So anyway, after I bought my knife I carried that too when hiking, and then I added pepper spray that I also carry.  But now I have a friend I hike with so I almost never hike alone anymore and besides my mom forbade me from hiking alone, which makes me think twice but doesn't stop me.

    Hello Miss Kiti! Long time, no see (your posts). Folks in other places must think you are exaggerating about the animals ... but I know you are not. Where you hike there is a new population of wolves ... and even the occasional jaguar ... now folks think we are really nuts.

    I'd guess among the things you are likely to encounter, I'd be more afraid of stepping on a rattler sunning himself on the trail some sunny Spring day. Then there is cholla ... I seem to be a cholla magnet so give it wide berth.

    But the reason your Mom is worried ... and I echo her concern ... is that there are a lot of two-legged wolves walking around out there. There are the variety that hang out in places like Sabino canyon looking specifically for targets like you. Not to freak you out, but I can think of one kidnap/murder there.

    In those valleys which stretch down to the border ... my cousin has some nice acreage in Saint David ... there are other varieties. Sure, most "international hikers" are good folks and vital to our economy ... though don't ever get NBK started on that subject ... but it is already a lawless situation and bad people are in some proportion in every group and they gonna be extra bad stumbling upon you.

    Finally ... what happens when you are peacefully alone, out of range of that annoying cell phone, and you twist your ankle, maybe hit your head? Are you just planning on laying there until the buzzards start to circle and some (good-looking and strong) cowboy (these days on a quad, not a horse) thinks maybe one of the new calves might have gotten caught in the barb wire? Not a good plan for meeting your life partner. Wink

    You are probably not going to listen to me any better than your Mom, but I hope when you go out you at least let someone know exactly where you will be, exactly when you are leaving, exactly when you are due back?


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    kiti

    Posts : 35
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    Location : Arizona

    Re: Knives and self defence

    Post by kiti on Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:10 am

    Hey BillC! Yes, I took a leave of absence for school. Finished second semester nursing school a couple weeks ago, barely got an A it was so much harder than first semester. Will start third semester in two weeks, when I will once again have no social life for another 4 months.

    Thanks for the advice about hiking. I generally hike in the Oro Valley area since that's where I work and when I have some time between shifts sometimes I walk around for a few hours. I don't always tell people where I'm going. Yes I guess my plan is if I fall and hurt myself and don't have cell phone service to just hope someone nice comes by. But I haven't hiked alone in months, since I have a good hiking buddy now with a somewhat similar work schedule to mine. I do like to be alone and quiet though. A year ago I went out and climbed up on a pile of boulders on a really nice day and just sat in the sun and listened to the wind and the birds for half an hour, something most of my friends probably wouldn't do because they are so ADD or impatient or whatever.
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    Q mystic

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    Join date : 2013-02-10

    Re: Knives and self defence

    Post by Q mystic on Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:04 pm

    Quicksilver wrote:Greetings all,

    It seems to be a not uncommon position that carrying a knife with the intention of using it to defend oneself is a very bad idea because in most cases it is significantly more likely to be used on the carrier than on their hypothetical assailant. 'Course there are many variables at play, but what (and I ask more out of interest than any particularly practical motivation) are your thoughts on this, in agreement or otherwise?


    Regards.

    No stat but outside of one hanging out too late, if a knife deal is a big one you should call your MP. Otherwise, it's luck of the draw, and if you are carrying a knife for luck of the draw, and have to  use it, that's not good in any way, shape, or form. It's why most normal people don't carry knives. You'd prolly have to ambush one to get a decent fact unless your knife was really big.lol


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    lorenb667

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    Join date : 2014-04-30

    Re: Knives and self defence

    Post by lorenb667 on Fri May 02, 2014 12:59 pm

    There's a reason i like concealed handguns.

    Mr_Michael_or_Mike

    Posts : 43
    Join date : 2014-01-25

    Re: Knives and self defence

    Post by Mr_Michael_or_Mike on Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:53 am

    Speaking of knives in Japan, here is the youtube page of a Japanese man who practices bush craft. He has numerous videos of suitable knives for his hobby/trade. He hunts deer and, butchers deer too.


    https://www.youtube.com/user/virtuovice/videos

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