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    Meeting between Hitler and Kano

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    EastGer_Jûdôka

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    Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by EastGer_Jûdôka on Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:31 am

    I found something, very interresting in the german Judo forum.

    tutor! wrote:Kano hat Hitler auf dessen Wunsch 1933 getroffen. Darüber exisiteren Aufzeichnungen. Aber: ging es dabei (H.) nur um die Olympischen Spiele?
    http://www.dasjudoforum.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4180&p=46010&hilit=hitler#p46010

    The translation: Kano met Hitler to his desire in 1933. The are some record about. But, was it only about the Olympic games?

    I know it is not the newest post (posted in 2009), but I wrote the to the german User. He said his source was from Dieter Born (he is registred as dborn). He didn't ask him about. But we can't ask dborn because he passed away for 4 months.
    He said, he (Kano) was behavior toward Hitler.

    Does anyone know more?

    Ps.
    Sorry for my english, I still learning english.
    I hope you can understand me however.
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:08 am

    EastGer_Jûdôka wrote:I found something, very interresting in the german Judo forum.

    tutor! wrote:Kano hat Hitler auf dessen Wunsch 1933 getroffen. Darüber exisiteren Aufzeichnungen. Aber: ging es dabei (H.) nur um die Olympischen Spiele?
    http://www.dasjudoforum.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4180&p=46010&hilit=hitler#p46010

    The translation: Kano met Hitler to his desire in 1933. The are some record about. But, was it only about the Olympic games?

    I know it is not the newest post (posted in 2009), but I wrote the to the german User. He said his source was from Dieter Born (he is registred as dborn). He didn't ask him about. But we can't ask dborn because he passed away for 4 months.
    He said, he (Kano) was behavior toward Hitler.

    Does anyone know more?

    Ps.
    Sorry for my english, I still learning english.
    I hope you can understand me however.
    I have looked somewhat into this link but with no great results so far. I believe that Joe Svinth has done some research in that area too. As with many things regarding Kanô, much of the commonly known information is the result of careful marketing. Thus if any sensitive information about that topic exists, it probably has long ago been removed from public view or if possible, even destroyed by the Kôdôkan or eventual 'co-conspirators'.

    However, even though Kanô seems to have been pretty close and 'appreciative' of military successes around the term of the century, his opinion seems to have drastically changed over the next 15 years. The effects of World War-I went a lot further than those of the Japanese-Russian war. In the 1930s certainly Japanese fascists saw a lot of interesting things in judo (its body culture, its health-aspects, its discipline), but Kanô has always adamantly resisted people trying to use judo for anything else than what he intended it for: education. So, in the light of Kanô's other actions, positions and writing from the 1930s, I simply don't think he would have the kind of mindset to find much inspiration in Hitler. If Hitler would have had the same popularity, say around 1898, then the situation might have been different, but in 1933-1936 ?  I doubt it.

    Also, in itself, there would not be anything 'wrong' with seeking to meet with Hitler 'then'. In 1933 Hitler hadn't invaded other countries, nor had he order the killings of 6 million Jews and Gypsies and even more Russians, and there were no concentration camps yet. Sure, he had published Mein Kampf already in 1925  --I believe--  but then again, that book was probably viewed somewhat differently from how people would look at it after 1945 when all the atrocities had taken place. And ... by the way, there are like 15,000 copies of the book sold in the US every year. I am sure that not all people who do are committed racists either. There will be scholars and students, and even simply interested people among the readers too.

    To start really, I mean REALLY digging into this, you need someone experienced with doing research into NSDAP historic research. It's not my expertise. This is not the sort of question one is going to answer just by reading a couple of judo books, but will require original field research. You're likely going to be mostly on your own. The Kôdôkan sure is not going to be sponsoring you, although they might just to keep you form releasing that information, although there are other ways to make you not release any such information. One of these ways involves 4 guys in business suits wearing a leather strap across one of their shoulders. I've met them.


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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:23 am

    Kano shihan met Adolph Hitler, the new Nazi PM, in Jun 1933, in Berlin.  I believe the chronology below was part of the Tsukuba University celebrations of the life of Kano shihan.

    http://100yearlegacy.org/Kano_Jigoro/Chronological_Table/ 

    1933 73歳 6月、IOC総会(ウィーン)出席のため渡欧、同総会で、杉村陽太郎、IOC委員就任ドイツ体育祭(シュトゥットガルト)臨席。フランス政府からの体育に関する名誉金章受章。ベルリンではアドルフ・ヒトラー総統と会見、バイエルン政府主催柔道講習会で指導、ウィーン、ロンドン、フランスでも柔道の講演・実演、シンガポールの柔道大会で講演(11月帰国)

    1月、ドイツでナチスが政権獲得
    3月、日本が国際連盟脱退
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:59 am

    NBK wrote:Kano shihan met Adolph Hitler, the new Nazi PM, in Jun 1933, in Berlin.  I believe the chronology below was part of the Tsukuba University celebrations of the life of Kano shihan.

    http://100yearlegacy.org/Kano_Jigoro/Chronological_Table/ 

    1933 73歳 6月、IOC総会(ウィーン)出席のため渡欧、同総会で、杉村陽太郎、IOC委員就任ドイツ体育祭(シュトゥットガルト)臨席。フランス政府からの体育に関する名誉金章受章。ベルリンではアドルフ・ヒトラー総統と会見、バイエルン政府主催柔道講習会で指導、ウィーン、ロンドン、フランスでも柔道の講演・実演、シンガポールの柔道大会で講演(11月帰国)

    1月、ドイツでナチスが政権獲得
    3月、日本が国際連盟脱退
    It's kind of funny to read that someone "met with Hitler" and then simply not devote any further attention to it ... One has to be Japanese to write something like that !

    So, basically the Nazis win the elections in January 1933, and Kanô meets with their Chief-guru in June of that year, nothing too bad in there given that Hitler at that moment is nothing more but a charismatic and politically promising gent. Sure, his writings were, well ... somewhat worrying, but would Kanô have known that ? Would Kanô have read Hitler's manifesto ? Maybe in his naiveté Kanô might well have taught that Hitler could become a potential new ally in the spread of jûdô, and to some extent that may not have been so absurd as it sounds. Mind that my teacher learnt judo in Berlin in 1941. And what was my teacher first contact with jûdô ? It was as part of as part of a manifestation of the Winterhilfe located on the Unter den Linden, which was a main boulevard of which former Prussian royalty had been fond using it for demonstrations of pomp and circumstance. If one didn't fully realize that Hitler was a demonic lunatic and one just looked at his charismatic personality and economic and educational ideas, I could vividly imagine that one might think that a guy like that could give a huge impetus to the spread of judo.

    What is also interesting about all this is that oftentimes when you see the infamous 1936 pic of Kanô and Hitler it is always suggested that the two would barely have spoken. Personally, I have long wondered, given the important of Hitler 3 years later (1936) that it would only be logical for the two of them to politely great one another, so, I wondered, was there a handshake ? It would have been odd if there wasn't. So where is the picture ? Why can't any picture be found of Kanô and Hitler shaking hands ? Certainly, Hitler wouldn't have gone down on his knees to make zarei for Kanô, as much of that is certain ! I still speculate such a picture could in fact exist. The Kôdôkan would get a fit if anyone is able to locate it.


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    wdax

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by wdax on Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:42 pm

    I don´t think, that judo was the reason, they met.... I´m sure it was about olympics, but if anyone has time, he could check the german newspaper achives.

    Here is the overall situation.

    Berlin was chosen to host the 1936 olympics in May 1931. In 1933, after Hitler took over, a boycotte of the olympics was suggested at the IOC meeting in Vienna in june 1933, if I recall it correctly berfore Kano visited Berlin. At the Vienna meeting, Nazi-Germany guaranteed, that there will be no racism etc. in the games. This declaration finally avoided the boykott.

    Tokyo was already candidate city to host the 1940 olympics and Kano the key figure of the bid. He was one of the most influental members of the IOC, being a member for 25 years.

    To be succsessful in the 1940 bid, Kano needed support from Germany, and Berlin needed support from Japan to avoid the boycott.

    Of course there were some Judo activities in Berlin 1933 - a picture of Kano giving instructions is included in the book "Kodokan Judo" - but the reason to meet Hitler surely was not judo....
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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:28 pm

    Wdax applies Occam's razor to cut to the point.

    Kano was on the Olympic Committee.
    In 1931, Germany won the 1936 Olympics.
    Kano goes to Germany to check it out and solicit Germany's support for Japan's bid.
    Hitler is brought in, most likely by the German Olympic committee.  

    Nearly no one foresaw what Hitler would become.  In fact, the American left was enamored with him, as they were with Mussolini.    

    It would be interesting to see Kano shihan's diary, but perhaps German newspapers and Japanese Olympic records would show.

    Here's Joe Svinth's research, or at least part of it. Interesting reading.
    http://ejmas.com/jcs/2004jcs/jcsart_svinth_0504.htm

    NBK


    Last edited by NBK on Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

    EastGer_Jûdôka

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by EastGer_Jûdôka on Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:34 pm

    Thank you, for you informations!

    @NBK
    I can't speak/read japanese. I want to learn japanese but it is hard to find a teacher.


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    BillC

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by BillC on Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:54 pm

    EastGer_Jûdôka wrote:Thank you, for you informations!

    @NBK
    I can't speak/read japanese. I want to learn japanese but it is hard to find a teacher.
    translate.google.com

    Do you live near Berlin?


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    finarashi

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by finarashi on Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:13 pm

    IMHO the question to be asked could also be reformulated as; "How much did Kano's thinking change from his experiences and observations of Germany, France and Italy before second world war?" CK already discussed about his opinions which "seems to have drastically changed over the next 15 years"

    Certainly we have people meeting Hitler. How many people did Hitler meet each year. We could compose a big list of persons who met Hitler. I personally know of two people (both of them now deceased) who have shook hands with Hitler. Neither of them had any tendencies towards natzism.

    My grandfather owned "Main Kampf" and had read it to find out what it was about. That does not make him a Natzi far from it.

    Germany was very influential in Olympic movement because they took sports seriously. Germany and Japanese were politically close in Olympic movement. Germany was maybe one of the strongest countries pre WWII. For some reason Germany favoured inclusion of jiu-jitsu to original 1940 olympics.

    I find this kind of you are either white or you are black type of questions rather problematic. Do we assign some lable to every Norvegian, Dane, Belgian, Dutch, French, Spanish, Italian, Pole, Slovak, ... that was not a member of organized resistance? How do we label those who pre 1939 showed pro Hitler tendencies. There are many praising speeches made by e.g. Americans on "How Hitler stopped hyperinflation.."


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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:31 pm

    This is one of those topics where it would be sort of ... immensely useful ... if we were given access to Kanô's diairies again, but that is wishful thinking ... The Kanô family has all taken care of it ...


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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:32 pm

    NBK wrote:Wdax applies Occam's razor to cut to the point.
    Useful to note here that while the hypothesis itself may be true, Occam's razor itself is complete nonsense as shown by Kant, Leibniz and Menger, or to use Popper's words: "We prefer simpler theories to more complex ones because their empirical content is greater, and because they are better testable. However, the idea that a simple theory applies to more cases than a more complex one is thus more easily falsifiable." Galileo with his own sense of humor expressed it best: "if Occam's razor were true, then any problem we encounter could be reduced to the letters of the alphabet, since we only needs those letters to describe any problem" !

    Specifically applied to the situation here, while indeed likely the purpose of Kanô's visit was not jûdô but Olympics, it is also unlikely given Kanô's obsession with education, that he would not have mentioned jûdô. The purpose of a meeting does not at all explain what will actually be shared and said there.


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    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
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    johan smits

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by johan smits on Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:39 am

    I agree with finarashi. It is very easy to label people. Hitler was by the dates mentioned nothing more than head of state. He does mention jiujitsu in Mein Kampf but does not go into detail about the art. It is strange indeed, knowing what we know now, to read newspapers articles from before WW2 mentioning how heads of states met with Herr Hitler.

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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:23 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    NBK wrote:Wdax applies Occam's razor to cut to the point.
    Useful to note here that while the hypothesis itself may be true, Occam's razor itself is complete nonsense as shown by Kant, Leibniz and Menger, or to use Popper's words: "We prefer simpler theories to more complex ones because their empirical content is greater, and because they are better testable. However, the idea that a simple theory applies to more cases than a more complex one is thus more easily falsifiable." Galileo with his own sense of humor expressed it best: "if Occam's razor were true, then any problem we encounter could be reduced to the letters of the alphabet, since we only needs those letters to describe any problem" !

    Specifically applied to the situation here, while indeed likely the purpose of Kanô's visit was not jûdô but Olympics, it is also unlikely given Kanô's obsession with education, that he would not have mentioned jûdô. The purpose of a meeting not at all explain what will actually be shared and said there.
    I don't see the utility. It seems to me in fact you did a good job of applying Occam's razor - stick to the facts, use what you do know, make minimal speculations. It is a heuristic, not a solution.

    I would bet there's substantial info in German on the conversation between Kano and Hitler.

    On the same trip supposedly Kano went to Bayern for a German tournament, バイエルン政府主催柔道講習会 government sponsored judo instruction meet, where he taught. A gracious accommodation (some might say 'bribe'?) that probably played well to Kano's ego. There must be info regarding this trip in German, probably something in the diplomatic archives, too, as such as the Foreign Ministry are consummate recorders of official meetings.

    Certainly the German chancellor would be briefed on Kano's German itinerary, and could be charming and engaging - I find it reasonable to speculate that they did talk about judo and his lifelong t, and his upcoming instruction of judo in a German government sponsored boondoggle judo session in a nice part of Germany.

    There has been a long interest in Germany in jujutsu - the Judo mag had a two part article on German jujutsu. I'll check the date, there may be a link.

    EG Judoka or Wdax could contribute a lot by digging this sort of info up. I'll look in Japanese, but nothing jumps out. Maybe in Judo mag in a general overview of the trip or the Kano Taikan.
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:28 pm

    NBK wrote:

    EG Judoka or Wdax could contribute a lot by digging this sort of info up.  I'll look in Japanese, but nothing jumps out.  Maybe in Judo mag in a general overview of the trip or the Kano Taikan.    
    Germany has a relatively high number of well-qualified Japanologists several of whom have done scholarly work with regards to budô-history. The problem as usually is, NBK, for professionals to focus on this professionally there needs to be professional merit, and it's helluva challenge to convince any grant agency, university department, Japan foundation or anyone to provide money for judo. The problem remains that almost no one the f*ck is interested in serious academic research except for a handful of people and even those do not want to pay for it. It's all welcome if it's freebies, and the only thing anyone in judo wants to financially pay for is for something that substantially increases the chance on gettng a major medal on a major competition. That's also why the IJF is running so well (commercially, not judo-wise) while virtually all serious scholars who've done research in judo gave up and switched fields. I can give numerous examples but it would be a violation of privacy for me to do so. I think that this kind of topic requires the involvement of a proper project that is subject to external scrutiny, and the Germans have the best resources to deal with this, also because they are experienced with dealing with digging though NSDAP and Nazi archives and other.


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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:59 pm

    I think that this kind of topic requires the involvement of a proper project that is subject to external scrutiny, and the Germans have the best resources to deal with this, also because they are experienced with dealing with digging though NSDAP and Nazi archives and other.
    Not sure what 'external scrutiny' is needed to look through some old German newspaper microfiche, and diplomatic or sports histories that should be available in any major library.   If any articles start to fill in the blanks, that's another thing.

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Hanon on Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:29 am

    I wrote a reply here and its gone?


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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:08 am

    NBK wrote:
    I think that this kind of topic requires the involvement of a proper project that is subject to external scrutiny, and the Germans have the best resources to deal with this, also because they are experienced with dealing with digging though NSDAP and Nazi archives and other.
    Not sure what 'external scrutiny' is needed to look through some old German newspaper microfiche, and diplomatic or sports histories that should be available in any major library.   If any articles start to fill in the blanks, that's another thing.
    The process of peer review or position of a skilled adviser exist for a reason, and are no redundant luxury in particular when dealing with the kind of topics that is well-positioned to mix fantasy and reality. However, if your point is that there is no difference between a trained scholar in Japanology or an average Joe Six pack with no Japanese skills, no training in heuristic, historical method and hermeneutic, or who has no experience and training in localizing, processing, cataloging, and analyzing Nazi-documents, then I don't have much to add. Why even go to study and learn at all ? This kind of stuff will be located not in your typical library mainstream sources, and will require discovering references that are not now known as existing references for this topic.


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    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:13 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    NBK wrote:
    I think that this kind of topic requires the involvement of a proper project that is subject to external scrutiny, and the Germans have the best resources to deal with this, also because they are experienced with dealing with digging though NSDAP and Nazi archives and other.
    Not sure what 'external scrutiny' is needed to look through some old German newspaper microfiche, and diplomatic or sports histories that should be available in any major library.   If any articles start to fill in the blanks, that's another thing.
    The process of peer review or position of a skilled adviser exist for a reason, and are no redundant luxury in particular when dealing with the kind of topics that is well-positioned to mix fantasy and reality. However, if your point is that there is no difference between a trained scholar in Japanology or an average Joe Six pack with no Japanese skills, no training in heuristic, historical method and hermeneutic, or who has no experience and training in localizing, processing, cataloging, and analyzing Nazi-documents, then I don't have much to add. Why even go to study and learn at all ?  This kind of stuff will be located not in your typical library mainstream sources, and will require discovering references that are not now known as existing references for this topic.
    No, my point is no one needs a peer panel, or even a single peer, to look at free microfiche of old newspapers in a public library. We know the general dates, so it should only take a very short time for a literate, interested judoka to scan and find it. Even a single article could contain more info than is known now.

    I've already scanned a number of judo and Kano history books - there's not much detail on the 1930's German trips, even in books written in the 1940's. No peers needed.

    There's actually more about the interaction with Italy and Mussolini - without evidence, it appears that the Germans were pretty to convince, but there was a lot of Japanese angst about whether the Italians would support the Tokyo bid for the 1940 Olympics (and a Sapporo bid for the Winter Olympics, lost and long forgotten), and Mussolini was approached and got personally involved.

    NBK
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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:04 pm

    EastGer_Jûdôka wrote:Thank you, for you informations!

    @NBK
    I can't speak/read japanese. I want to learn japanese but it is hard to find a teacher.
    How much money you got? study 

    It doesn't say much -
    1933 73歳 6月、IOC総会(ウィーン)出席のため渡欧、同総会で、杉村陽太郎、IOC委員就任ドイツ体育祭(シュトゥットガルト)臨席。フランス政府からの体育に関する名誉金章受章。ベルリンではアドルフ・ヒトラー総統と会見、バイエルン政府主催柔道講習会で指導、ウィーン、ロンドン、フランスでも柔道の講演・実演、シンガポールの柔道大会で講演(11月帰国)

    1月、ドイツでナチスが政権獲得
    3月、日本が国際連盟脱退
    1933 - 76 years old.
    January - the Nazi government established
    March - Japan withdraws from the League of Nations
    June - In order to attend the IOC General Assembly (Vienna) he went to Europe; Sugimura Yotaro, IOC member, also attended (? not clear). Received a physical education related award from the French govt. Met Premier Adolph Hitler in Berlin, taught / lectured at a government sponsored judo practice meet in Bayern, lectured and demonstrated judo in Vienna, London, and France; lectured at a judo tournament in Singapore (returned to Japan Nov)

    wdax

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by wdax on Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:32 am

    I´m on the way to Japan, but I can suggest two sources:
    http://zefys.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/kalender/year/1933/
    http://www.dra.de/

    I know, that there is a radio speech of Kano - held in german(!) - in the broadcast-archives, in which he invites for the 1940 olympics to Tokyo.
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    Tai-Jutsu

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Tai-Jutsu on Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:00 am

    I'm not going to dig out my copy of Hitler's Manifesto but in it he mentions something to the effect off:

    " Jujutsu and Boxing are an excellent part of a boy's education to be a man."

    I actually agree with Hitler there (The SOB was evil and meglameniacal, not nuts and not stupid.)

    So a guy like that might want to meet Kano for that reason, besides the Olympics and fostering his relations to any Japanese he might feel is part of, influential to or respected by the government of Japan.

    A good relation for him as they smacked the Hell out of the British in the Pacific.
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    Reinberger

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Reinberger on Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:57 am

    Someone interested in Kanō Jigorō's visit of Germany in 1933, could, for example, search for the article

    "Exzellenz wirft jeden Gegner - Bericht über den Besuch von Baron Dr. Jigoro Kano in Berlin"
    from "Berliner Illustrirte Zeitung".

    Unfortunately I don't know the exact date at the moment. But I know, that most photos in this article in fact were taken earlier in June, at the open-air rooftop-dōjō of the "I. Oesterreichischer Jiu-Jitsu-Klub" in Vienna, where Kanō-shihan demonstrated together with Takasaki Masami and Kotani Sumiyuki:
    Nevertheless, there is also a picture of Kanō-shihan talking during a "SA-Sportfest" with SA-Gruppenführer Hans von Tschammer und Osten (at this time "Reichskommissar für Turnen und Sport" since April 28th, 1933), who shortly after this conversation was appointed "Reichssportfuehrer" (July 19th, 1933).

    BTW, did you all know that a "Jiu-Jitsu-Griff" allegedly once even saved Hitler's life?

    According to the memoirs of Ernst Hanfstaengl, a sponsor of Hitler since the early 1920ies, it happened in November of 1923. After the abolition of his attempted coup, Hitler, hidden in Hanfstaengel's villa, tried to escape the impending imprisonment by shooting himself. When Hanfstaengl's wife Helene (nee Helene Elise Adelheid Niemeyer), "stormed up the stairs to Hitler's garret, the latter entered the anteroom of his hideout with a revolver pulled out. 'This is the end', he shouted, 'to let imprison myself by this pigs - never! Rather dead!'. But before he was able to walk the talk, my wife already had applied the effective Jiu-Jitsu-lock of the police-officer from Boston¹, and the revolver went flying in a big arc into a barrel standing there at some distance, and was rapidly buried under the stock of flour within.

    If the story is true, it changed history radically. Or, perhaps better, without this intervention by Helene Hanfstaengl history would have been changed radically.

    Best regards, Robert

    ¹ After school Hanfstaengl emigrated, studied at Harvard until 1909, and later lived in New York for some years. After WWI, when his "Hanfstaengl-Kunstsalon" - the New York branch of the parental company in Germany - already was confiscated by the US-administration as "property of a foe", he returned to Germany.


    _________________
    Kind regards, Robert
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    NBK

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    Location : Tokyo, Japan

    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:03 pm

    Reinberger wrote:Someone interested in Kanō Jigorō's visit of Germany in 1933, could, for example, search for the article

    "Exzellenz wirft jeden Gegner - Bericht über den Besuch von Baron Dr. Jigoro Kano in Berlin"
    from "Berliner Illustrirte Zeitung".

    Unfortunately I don't know the exact date at the moment. But I know, that most photos in this article in fact were taken earlier in June, at the open-air rooftop-dōjō of the "I. Oesterreichischer Jiu-Jitsu-Klub" in Vienna, where Kanō-shihan demonstrated together with Takasaki Masami and Kotani Sumiyuki:
    Nevertheless, there is also a picture of Kanō-shihan talking during a "SA-Sportfest" with SA-Gruppenführer Hans von Tschammer und Osten (at this time "Reichskommissar für Turnen und Sport" since April 28th, 1933), who shortly after this conversation was appointed "Reichssportfuehrer" (July 19th, 1933).

    ......

    Best regards, Robert

    [/i]
    Great find, thanks! but my Google search does not uncover the article.

    I did find a brief article by Kotani sensei about that trip to Austria and Germany; he does not mention meeting Hitler, which presumably he would.
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    Cichorei Kano

    Posts : 1948
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    Location : the Holy See

    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:38 pm

    Reinberger wrote:Someone interested in Kanō Jigorō's visit of Germany in 1933, could, for example, search for the article

    "Exzellenz wirft jeden Gegner - Bericht über den Besuch von Baron Dr. Jigoro Kano in Berlin"
    from "Berliner Illustrirte Zeitung".

    Unfortunately I don't know the exact date at the moment. But I know, that most photos in this article in fact were taken earlier in June, at the open-air rooftop-dōjō of the "I. Oesterreichischer Jiu-Jitsu-Klub" in Vienna, where Kanō-shihan demonstrated together with Takasaki Masami and Kotani Sumiyuki:

    Nevertheless, there is also a picture of Kanō-shihan talking during a "SA-Sportfest" with SA-Gruppenführer Hans von Tschammer und Osten (at this time "Reichskommissar für Turnen und Sport" since April 28th, 1933), who shortly after this conversation was appointed "Reichssportfuehrer" (July 19th, 1933).


    BTW, did you all know that a "Jiu-Jitsu-Griff" allegedly once even saved Hitler's life?

    According to the memoirs of Ernst Hanfstaengl, a sponsor of Hitler since the early 1920ies, it happened in November of 1923. After the abolition of his attempted coup, Hitler, hidden in Hanfstaengel's villa, tried to escape the impending imprisonment by shooting himself. When Hanfstaengl's wife Helene (nee Helene Elise Adelheid Niemeyer), "stormed up the stairs to Hitler's garret, the latter entered the anteroom of his hideout with a revolver pulled out. 'This is the end', he shouted, 'to let imprison myself by this pigs - never! Rather dead!'. But before he was able to walk the talk, my wife already had applied the effective Jiu-Jitsu-lock of the police-officer from Boston¹, and the revolver went flying in a big arc into a barrel standing there at some distance, and was rapidly buried under the stock of flour within.

    If the story is true, it changed history radically. Or, perhaps better, without this intervention by Helene Hanfstaengl history would have been changed radically.

    Best regards, Robert

    Reinberger,

    Thanks for sharing with us that intriguing information ! It's good to have you hear with us again. Hope you will stay aroun.


    _________________


    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
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    Reinberger

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    Join date : 2013-12-02

    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Reinberger on Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:35 pm

    NBK wrote: Great find, thanks!  but my Google search does not uncover the article.

    I did find a brief article by Kotani sensei about that trip to Austria and Germany; he does not mention meeting Hitler, which presumably he would.  
    NBK,

    You're welcome! But sorry, when I wrote "search for the article", it wasn't Google, that I had in my mind. I meant "searching" in a more - "traditional" Wink way. In fact, I don't know if anything of that article is available on the net, except the pictures I've provided here (I had used the last one some time ago, in a post at the old forum already). However, IIRC, while there is some text, not very much of significant information is accompanying the pictures. I just wanted to reveal, that this visit definitely WAS mentioned in (at least one) German Newspaper(s).

    CK,

    You're welcome, too! And thank you very much for the friendly reception here!


    Best regards, Robert


    Last edited by Reinberger on Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : formatting)

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