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    Meeting between Hitler and Kano

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    Reinberger

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Reinberger on Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:05 pm

    In the meantime I've found the mentioned newspaper again. It is from July 9 th, 1933 (42. Jahrgang Nr. 27). Unfortunately, the underline of the last photo in my post above, with "Reichssportkommissar" v. Tschammern-Osten at the "SA-Sportfest" in Berlin, is the only reference to Kanō-shihan's visit to Germany in that article. The rest is about Kanō-shihan and his "Jiudo" in general.
    What caught my eye from the first time I saw the photos from Vienna included in this article, was the jūdōgi of shihan's uke. I also saw similar things on other, even older photos, but to me, the black strips along the side of the zubon, and at the lower edge of the uwagi always rather remind me on some aberrancies of western budōgi fashion, more en vogue from the 1970ies onward, than to think "Japanese jūdōgi of somebody accompanying Kanō-shihan at an official trip in 1933". The sandan patch was also surprising me, as I thought both, Kotani and Takasaki, were already rokudan at the time of this trip.

    Best regards, Robert
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:58 pm

    Reinberger wrote:In the meantime I've found the mentioned newspaper again. It is from July 9 th, 1933 (42. Jahrgang Nr. 27). Unfortunately, the underline of the last photo in my post above, with "Reichssportkommissar" v. Tschammern-Osten at the "SA-Sportfest" in Berlin, is the only reference to Kanō-shihan's visit to Germany in that article. The rest is about Kanō-shihan and his "Jiudo" in general.
    What caught my eye from the first time I saw the photos from Vienna included in this article, was the jūdōgi of shihan's uke. I also saw similar things on other, even older photos, but to me, the black strips along the side of the zubon, and at the lower edge of the uwagi always rather remind me on some aberrancies of western budōgi fashion, more en vogue from the 1970ies onward, than to think "Japanese jūdōgi of somebody accompanying Kanō-shihan at an official trip in 1933". The sandan patch was also surprising me, as I thought both, Kotani and Takasaki, were already rokudan at the time of this trip.

    Best regards, Robert
    Maybe it simply wasn't Kotani's gi, but one he had borrowed ?  You are correct, Kotani had already been promoted to rokudan by Kanō-shihan in July of 1932 (he would become shichidan in December 1937, also directly from Kanō). The jūdōgi with the stripes were mostly seen in the days they still wore shortpants and short-sleeved gi. Some of the pictures of the final documents to establish the randori-no-kata in 1906 also feature these. But it is indeed somewhat surprising to still see gi with these stripes as late as 1933. Nevertheless, there are other possibilities. Could it be a gi which Kotani had left on a previous visit to Germany ?  After all if it says sandan, it would need to be very coincidential because Kotani was a sandan only for a very short period of time. He was obtained the rank in July 1924, but by December of that same year he already became yodan. So, for him to decorate the gi with a sandan patch would indicate it would date from summer or fall of 1924. It can’t really refer to the rank of a local as I don’t think that that early any of the Westerners present there would already hold a rank as high as sandan.

    Did Kotani visit Germany or Austria in 1924 or 1925 ?  (I did not look it up, up but maybe you know)


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    Jihef

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Jihef on Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:13 pm

    Reinberger wrote:But I know, that most photos in this article in fact were taken earlier in June, at the open-air rooftop-dōjō of the "I. Oesterreichischer Jiu-Jitsu-Klub" in Vienna, where Kanō-shihan demonstrated together with Takasaki Masami and Kotani Sumiyuki:
    Thank you very much for sharing these. Very interesting.

    Is Kano Shihan barefoot, or ? Question 
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    Reinberger

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Reinberger on Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:12 am

    CK,

    CK wrote:The jūdōgi with the stripes were mostly seen in the days they still wore shortpants and short-sleeved gi.
    But that doesn't explain the stripes on the zubon. However, I remember that I've also seen photos from earlier in the 1900's with such stripes on zubon.

    CK wrote:... I don’t think that that early any of the Westerners present there would already hold a rank as high as sandan.
    Correct. After his stay in Vienna, Kanō-shihan went to Germany, and Ottokar Klimek, one of the co-founders of the (so-called, in fact there were older clubs) "I. Oesterreichischer Jiu-Jitsu-Klub"  followed him, to attend the seminar in Bavaria. It must have been a difficult task for Klimek, as at that time the political relationships between Austria and Germany were not the best. Hitler had issued the "Tausend-Mark-Sperre" against Austria on May 25th, 1933,  to weaken the Austrian economy, and the Austrian government hat declared Hitler's NSDAP illegal in Austria on June 19th. However, Klimek seems to have been able to somehow manage the trip, and at that seminar in Germany was graded nidan by Kanō-shihan (on the spot, as I've been told and as I've read since the 1970ies / after having been graded shodan in Vienna already, as I read recently somewhere), and thus became Austria's first yūdansha ever.

    CK wrote:Did Kotani visit Germany or Austria in 1924 or 1925 ?
    While I can't preclude this definitely, I don't think it's overly likely. The reason is, that it's relatively safe to say that there was just jūjutsu (mostly written "Jiu-Jitsu" here, until today) practised in Austria at that time. Apparently Kanō-shihan has been in Vienna for the first time in 1890 already, but the trip to Europe 1898-1901 seems to have been more for studying, than to lecture. Therefore, jūjutsu/jūdō wasn't inaugurated in Austria until 1905, when Hans Koeck returned from London after being taught shortly by Uenishi Sadakazu, and I think Kanō-shihan's visit in 1933 can be counted as the actual beginning of jūdō in Austria. Actually, Ottokar Klimek had good contacts to some people of the Japanese embassy in Austria, which was also the reason that, apart from Kanō-shihan's lecture at the gym of the Viennese police, he could manage the visit of  the latter in just his dōjō; from all the schools and clubs active in Vienna at that time.

    Probably there were some reason just unknown to us, why this keikogi was used at that occasion. Perhaps it was simply a spare, or whatever.

    Jihef,

    Jihef wrote:Is Kano Shihan barefoot, or ?
    On these photos Kanō-shihan wears western-style, patterned socks. assumingly he had just put off his shoes before entering the tatami.

    Kind regards, Robert
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:26 am

    Reinberger wrote:CK,

    CK wrote:The jūdōgi with the stripes were mostly seen in the days they still wore shortpants and short-sleeved gi.
    But that doesn't explain the stripes on the zubon. However, I remember that I've also seen photos from earlier in the 1900's with such stripes on zubon.
    I don't understand. What do you mean. Many of the zubon in those days DID HAVE stripes.


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    Reinberger

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Reinberger on Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:36 am

    CK,

    sorry, I alluded to your mention of "the days they still wore shortpants". Do you have an idea, why those stripes were used later, when the (longer) zubon came into use?

    Kind regards, Robert
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    Reinberger

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Reinberger on Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:03 am

    BTW, in one Austrian newspaper I found an announcement, that the performers at that event, at which the photos at the Viennese club were eventually taken, will be:

    "The 75 years-old Excellency Jigoro Kano, Messrs. Takasaki, Kotani and Dr. Muto."

    As the scan is cropped, the last line is barely decipherable, but I think, the last name reads "Dr. Muto". Does anybody know this name?
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    Reinberger

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Reinberger on Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:49 am

    Chronicle of Munich, September 15th, 1933:

    "Excellency Kano, former educator and now advisor of the Emperor of Japan, on the occasion of a Jiu-course, that is held currently in Munich under the protectorate of the Reichssportfuehrer, visited the Bavarian premier, and expressed to him the pleasure and appreciation about the circumstances in Germany, Bavaria and Munich, together with the promise, that he will emphatically contribute to disapprove the wrong rumors, that are spread about Germany abroad."

    Still not exactly about the meeting with Hitler, but another splinter of the story.

    http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/Stadtverwaltung/Direktorium/Stadtarchiv/Chronik/1933.html

    Best regards, Robert
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:02 am

    Reinberger wrote:CK,

    sorry, I alluded to your mention of "the days they still wore shortpants". Do you have an idea, why those stripes were used later, when the (longer) zubon came into use?

    Kind regards, Robert
    I think there are many things in jûdô or jûjutsu that happened without there being an actual conscious decision to do so. When I said "in the days they still wore shortpants" I was more giving a time frame than an actual suggestion that from the moment the pants became longer it suddenly stopped.

    I suspect that these are characteristics of days when Japan was exploring the new modernism and with that the kind of individualism that is so characteristic of the West and untypical of traditional Japan. In brief, I think we see a kind of decades long experiment in many Japanese things where greater individualism is embraced and hence also individual styles. The 1906 pictures

    So even in the pictures from around 1906 I was referring to show some jûdôka in shortpants, others in long pants, some with stripes, some without stripes. You will also notice that you never really see pictures of Kanô training or teaching jûdô that date from before 1906 or 1900. Why ? Either you see him in proper dress as a civilian or you see him in montsuki haori or Western clothes when he was middle-aged or an elderly person. I do have some pictures from before 1900 and he actually wearing an uwagi jacket and a hakama, like common today in aikidô.

    I think that as jûdô evolved and became more codified that these frivolous things disappeared and never came into picture again until Geesink started introducing red and blue gi, and much later in the BJJ era.

    I don't know if you have visited US clubs for randori or participated in US judo competitions, but if so, you will have noticed that many people were teeth protectors like boxers. Why ? Well, to protect their teeth obviously, but do Americans have significantly weaker teeth than anyone else so that teeth protectors are a must whereas I have never ever met any judoka anywhere in the world outside of the US who did. Why ? It probably has to do with culture. When you have cultural war then certain things become part of reality and truth, and anything that does not conform to that is not reality and is untrue no matter what. It is the same reason why owing a gun is evident as owing a TV to most Americans while incomprehensible to most of the world. It is the same reason for why many even more sensitive things, such as same-sex marriages being increasingly approved in many states and many Western countries, while just overwhelmingly rejected in Serbia, and punishable by death in Iran.


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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:17 am

    Reinberger wrote:Chronicle of Munich, September 15th, 1933:

    "Excellency Kano, former educator and now advisor of the Emperor of Japan, on the occasion of a Jiu-course, that is held currently in Munich under the protectorate of the Reichssportfuehrer, visited the Bavarian  premier, and expressed to him the pleasure and appreciation about the circumstances in Germany, Bavaria and Munich, together with the promise, that he will emphatically contribute to disapprove the wrong rumors, that are spread about Germany abroad."

    Still not exactly about the meeting with Hitler, but another splinter of the story.

    http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/Stadtverwaltung/Direktorium/Stadtarchiv/Chronik/1933.html

    Best regards, Robert
    The part "he will emphatically contribute to disapprove the wrong rumors, that are spread about Germany abroad." is very interesting ...

    Be aware that you are entering an area of research that will not be appreciated by many people, and I mean really, very many people. Also know that the Kôdôkan reads this forum even though they do not participate. Don't be surprise if "things start happening to you" ...


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    finarashi

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by finarashi on Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:20 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Reinberger wrote:Chronicle of Munich, September 15th, 1933:

    "Excellency Kano, former educator and now advisor of the Emperor of Japan, on the occasion of a Jiu-course, that is held currently in Munich under the protectorate of the Reichssportfuehrer, visited the Bavarian  premier, and expressed to him the pleasure and appreciation about the circumstances in Germany, Bavaria and Munich, together with the promise, that he will emphatically contribute to disapprove the wrong rumors, that are spread about Germany abroad."

    Still not exactly about the meeting with Hitler, but another splinter of the story.

    http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/Stadtverwaltung/Direktorium/Stadtarchiv/Chronik/1933.html

    Best regards, Robert
    The part "he will emphatically contribute to disapprove the wrong rumors, that are spread about Germany abroad." is very interesting ...

    Be aware that you are entering an area of research that will not be appreciated by many people, and I mean really, very many people. Also know that the Kôdôkan reads this forum even though they do not participate. Don't be surprise if  "things start happening to you" ...  
    Why should we not be surprised. It was Germany that was one of the strongest allies of Japan for the 1940 Tokyo Olympics. Whatever Kano thought personally about Mr. H, he needed Germany to secure the games.

    BTW the runner up was Helsinki (the familiar and comforting position of the Finns) that was later awarded the same 1940 games. We even built the stadium and then the games were cancelled.


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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:45 am

    finarashi wrote:

    BTW the runner up was Helsinki (the familiar and comforting position of the Finns) that was later awarded the same 1940 games. We even built the stadium and then the games were cancelled.
    And you let them get away with it and didn't declare war on them ?! tongue 


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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:11 am

    The Finns took it out on the Soviets in the Winter War.

    Kano shihan needed the Germans' - and the Italians' - support for Tokyo for the 1940 Olympics.

    And Kano has an interesting connection to Il Duce.
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    Reinberger

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Reinberger on Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:04 am

    CK wrote:The part "he will emphatically contribute to disapprove the wrong rumors, that are spread about Germany abroad." is very interesting ...

    Be aware ...
    Now, what happened, happened. What will happen, will happen. I don't mind. I cited a source, which is openly accessible on the net. I included the link.

    On the other hand, like articles in old newspapers, what really does this source prove? Nothing more, than that this words were recorded. Does that mean, that everything happened exactly, as it was recorded? No. Does it prove, that that were the exact words, that were spoken? No. Does it disclose the meaning behind what was said, and the reason(s) why something was said, or why something was put in a certain way? No. To me, this entry in the chronicle of Munich proves nothing, except it's own existence. But, it exists. And therefore, I think it is of relevance for the topic at hand. BTW, 1933 was not 1939 or 1945. Three years later, in 1936, the whole world came to the German Olympic Games, and gave the Nazis an opportunity to celebrate (themselves). Three more years later, the world was at war. Things, views, and evaluations may have changed a lot, over that period of time.


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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:04 pm

    Reinberger wrote:
    CK wrote:The part "he will emphatically contribute to disapprove the wrong rumors, that are spread about Germany abroad." is very interesting ...

    Be aware ...
    Now, what happened, happened. What will happen, will happen. I don't mind. I cited a source, which is openly accessible on the net. I included the link.

    On the other hand, like articles in old newspapers, what really does this source prove? Nothing more, than that this words were recorded. Does that mean, that everything happened exactly, as it was recorded? No. Does it prove, that that were the exact words, that were spoken? No. Does it disclose the meaning behind what was said, and the reason(s) why something was said, or why something was put in a certain way? No. To me, this entry in the chronicle of Munich proves nothing, except it's own existence. But, it exists. And therefore, I think it is of relevance for the topic at hand. BTW, 1933 was not 1939 or 1945. Three years later, in 1936, the whole world came to the German Olympic Games, and gave the Nazis an opportunity to celebrate (themselves). Three more years later, the world was at war. Things, views, and evaluations may have changed a lot, over that period of time.
    Exactly. I couldn't agree more with you ... and that is precisely the point ! Very Happy 


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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:02 pm

    From 2013 it's easy to criticize such a notion, even if true, while forgetting the context - in 1933 the American Democratic party was in love with both Hitler and Mussolini.  Roosevelt was envious of the executive power that Mussolini had amassed, and Hitler was just starting to pull Germany out of a horrible situation (granted, some of it intentionally inflicted for the purpose of excusing the consolidation of power and the abandonment of the responsibility of the legislative branch to rule by executive fiat..... gee, that is starting to sound familiar.....).
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    Reinberger

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Reinberger on Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:02 pm

    NBK wrote:From 2013 it's easy to criticize such a notion, even if true, while forgetting the context - in 1933 the American Democratic party was in love with both Hitler and Mussolini.  Roosevelt was envious of the executive power that Mussolini had amassed, and Hitler was just starting to pull Germany out of a horrible situation (granted, some of it intentionally inflicted for the purpose of excusing the consolidation of power and the abandonment of the responsibility of the legislative branch to rule by executive fiat..... gee, that is starting to sound familiar.....).
    That's also true. Additionally, being in an official function, one has to consider the official point of view, and subordinate possibly different personal views or opinions to them, then as now.

    On top of all, I believe it would have been relatively irrelevant, how careful something would have been phrased, in that time, and with that people. The Nazis were masters of propaganda. They would have made an enthusiastic, official consent out of everything that would have been said, if they wanted to.


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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Hanon on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:39 am

    Unsure where this thread is going? What are the suggestions behind Hitler meeting with kano Shihan?

    Numerous things spring to mind. Can anything be read into a meeting between these two people? Was any one at that meeting who can confirm what was said? Of course we could just read the German news papers of the day they would give a correct account of the meeting wouldn't they? I mean we all know Germany during that period had a completely free press............Rolling Eyes 

    I have the feeling that something is trying to be from nothing. I dislike this sort of thread intensely.

    What is the difference between the village gossip and a historian? One of them is a professional.

    History is not all about fact, it is highly subjective.

    I dislike those who place a leader on a pedestal just as much as I dislike those who push peoples face in the mud. WE are never going to know what those meetings consisted of, we are never going to know what kano shihan thought of Hitler nor what Hitler thought of kano shihan. What we do know is the one caused the deaths of millions and the other has given a system of character development that has given millions a higher standard of living.

    I have no idea if Kano shihan met the pope? IF they met does this make kano shihan Catholic?

    To suggest we make use of articles published in the German press of that era is a complete nonsense.

    I have this very uncomfortable feeling that some will do all they can to push yet another mans life into areas of negative intrigue where there was non. Kano was many things to many people I have zero reason to even think of him as a supporter of war or those who waged it. His life's work speak to us today as if he where here. lets keep our feet on the floor and not start to make stories where there are non.

    As a suggestion write on others as you would request those others to write about your son, yourself, your father and your grandfather. Supposition is not productive nor accurate.

    Mike


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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:54 pm

    I find Hanon's comments not understandable.  Interest in this is hardly trying to push someone into negative territory.

    This early on in Hitler's regime, Germany still did have a relatively free press.  Certainly that was more curtailed later, and certainly the major papers would be circumspect in tackling Hitler, but still there should be interesting information.  

    Two historic figures may have met - if they did, the fact that they did would be interesting.  What was reported as their conversation, or any first hand reporting, would be very interesting.

    Such a meeting would be historic in a number of dimensions.
    - what message would Hitler convey to Kano, in Germany as the Japanese representative of the International Olympic Committee, seeking German support for the Tokyo Olympic bid?
    - vice versus?
    - what was their impression of the other?  
    - What did Kano report back to Tokyo and Japanese Olympic Committee?
    - How did Japan's strategy to secure German support work?

    Kano was a very public, multifaceted person who was constantly on the hustle for something or another, and did so in fluent English.  

    Early in his career he also studied in Germany for a year and a half - I wonder if he spoke English during that study, or did he speak German??  Did he remember any German and attempt to use it?

    He was initially there to study the German education system - what was the impact of that on his educational philosophy?  What did he take back to Japan, where he exercised increasing influence over a large number of students and facility whose careers influenced the development of the new Japan?  

    How this could not be interesting to someone who's spent their life studying judo is beyond me.
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    Reinberger

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Reinberger on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:37 pm

    Hanon wrote:Unsure where this thread is going? What are the suggestions behind Hitler meeting with kano Shihan?
    ...
    I have the feeling that something is trying to be from nothing. I dislike this sort of thread intensely.
    ...
    I dislike those who place a leader on a pedestal just as much as I dislike those who push peoples face in the mud. WE are never going to know what those meetings consisted of, we are never going to know what kano shihan thought of Hitler nor what Hitler thought of kano shihan. What we do know is the one caused the deaths of millions and the other has given a system of character development that has given millions a higher standard of living.
    ...
    I have this very uncomfortable feeling that some will do all they can to push yet another mans life into areas of negative intrigue where there was non. Kano was many things to many people I have zero reason to even think of him as a supporter of war or those who waged it. His life's work speak to us today as if he where here.  lets keep our feet on the floor and not start to make stories where there are non.
    ...
    Mike
    Dear Mike,

    I'm sorry, that you feel like that, but like NBK, I understand this interest in history, and in what really happened, despite the fact that we'll never know for sure, and in every detail. There are, of course, the limitations you wrote about. But you may rest assured that to run down anybody is not the object of (at least) my participation in this thread.


    NBK wrote:...

    Kano was a very public, multifaceted person who was constantly on the hustle for something or another, and did so in fluent English.  

    Early in his career he also studied in Germany for a year and a half - I wonder if he spoke English during that study, or did he speak German??  Did he remember any German and attempt to use it?

    ...
    NBK,

    wdax already wrote, earlier in this thread:

    wdax wrote:...

    I know, that there is a radio speech of Kano - held in german(!) - in the broadcast-archives, in which he invites for the 1940 olympics to Tokyo.
    Kind regards, Robert

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by wdax on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:04 pm

    Kano´s german was VERY good. This radio speech in 1936 was about 15-20 min and I heard a sequence of ca. 5 min.

    Hanon

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Hanon on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:23 pm

    NBK wrote:I find Hanon's comments not understandable.  Interest in this is hardly trying to push someone into negative territory.

    This early on in Hitler's regime, Germany still did have a relatively free press.  Certainly that was more curtailed later, and certainly the major papers would be circumspect in tackling Hitler, but still there should be interesting information.  

     .
    ??????????????????? Please study your German history. Germany had not had anything like a 'free press' for some time when the meeting took place.
    No one by that time would speak or write a negative word about Hitler nor his regime. Many tried, it is still of interest and concern to me to note that during this period Hitler was having tens thousands of German people, from all walks of life, either assassinated or tortured (cleansed and questioned). Control of German maps leaving the country began as early as 1932-4. What Hitler did, what Hitler was, was never a secret to those who lived through that period.

    As Robert wrote we are never going to know what the meeting consisted of. Further, Hitler was the 'leader' of Germany and may have met kano as a matter of diplomacy. Hitler was not the IOC representative for Germany and did not attend IOC meetings. Having written that, Hitler, without a doubt, had total and absolute control over every single action taken by any and all of his governing puppets including those responsible for sport and that would have included judo along with every other sporting activity.

    I have always been fascinated in History my uncle being a professor of the subject. In particular European history of the period 1930 to 1950.

    It was a core element in our second or third year of study at university to study the behaviour of Hitler. I have had to read books that made me feel physically ill. There are not too many psychiatric-psychological dysfunctions that cannot describe Hitler and many of his close followers. This was an 'evil' regime born from severe illnesses-dysfunction in most of his close circle. To the best of my present knowledge kano was not suffering from such illnesses and would not have supported Hitler's war movement, in fact the actions of kano speak for themselves.
    Now if you truly desire to investigate some so called goodie two shoes who did sympathise with Hitler that's another story, that would make a very interesting list but they are all dead and Germany, also Japan have moved on. We now have another nation to concern us with regard world peace and have had for many years.

    .......................................................

    "Nazi Germany (1933–1945)

    Main article: Censorship in Nazi Germany

    Censorship in Nazi Germany was implemented by the Minister of Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels. All media—literature, music, newspapers, and public events—were censored. Attempts were also made to censor private communications, such as mail and even private conversation, with mixed results.

    The aim of censorship under the Nazi regime was simple: to reinforce Nazi power and to suppress opposing viewpoints and information. Punishments ranged from banning of presentation and publishing of works to deportation, imprisonment, or even execution in a concentration camp.

    Hitler outlined his theory of propaganda and censorship in Mein Kampf:

    "The chief function of propaganda is to convince the masses, whose slowness of understanding needs to be given time so they may absorb information; and only constant repetition will finally succeed in imprinting an idea on their mind."

    .................................................................

    Even the above has to be taken in context. This was 'official' censorship. Censorship in the way of beatings and murder etc was absolutely common well before the Nazi party came to office. That is part how these thugs got there in the first place.

    Mike


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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:07 pm

    Hanon wrote:Unsure where this thread is going? What are the suggestions behind Hitler meeting with kano Shihan?
    Numerous things spring to mind. Can anything be read into a meeting between these two people? Was any one at that meeting who can confirm what was said? Of course we could just read the German news papers of the day they would give a correct account of the meeting wouldn't they? I mean we all know Germany during that period had a completely free press............Rolling Eyes

    I have the feeling that something is trying to be from nothing. I dislike this sort of thread intensely.

    What is the difference between the village gossip and a historian? One of them is a professional.

    History is not all about fact, it is highly subjective.

    I dislike those who place a leader on a pedestal just as much as I dislike those who push peoples face in the mud. WE are never going to know what those meetings consisted of, we are never going to know what kano shihan thought of Hitler nor what Hitler thought of kano shihan. What we do know is the one caused the deaths of millions and the other has given a system of character development that has given millions a higher standard of living.

    I have no idea if Kano shihan met the pope? IF they met does this make kano shihan Catholic?

    To suggest we make use of articles published in the German press of that era is a complete nonsense.

    I have this very uncomfortable feeling that some will do all they can to push yet
    another mans life into areas of negative intrigue where there was non. Kano was many things to many people I have zero reason to even think of him as a supporter of war or those who waged it. His life's work speak to us today as if he where here.  lets keep our feet on the floor and not start to make stories where there are non.

    As a suggestion write on others as you would request those others to write about your son, yourself, your father and your grandfather. Supposition is not productive nor accurate.

    Mike
    This is the history section of a judo forum.  One might expect an interest in judo history herein.  

    I don’t suppose.  I’m not making suggestions. I research.  Sure one must make some basic assumptions to give a framework to the research, but my final writings (none of which appear here) have references.  I have the best suppositions in mind about folks but human nature tends to get in the way.  

    So far it seems to me that only you are reading something into the fact or absence of this meeting, or suggesting anything. I make it explicit – I personally hope this thread will go in the direction of adding info about Kano shihan’s contacts with German officials.  If he met them, which he clearly did, and I hope to find more specifics, he was meeting with members of the Nazi government, the Reichssportsfurhrer, the premier of Bavaria.  So what?  I cannot imagine such a line of inquiry to be upsetting.  

    But good questions – I shall try to determine if Kano met the Pope.   He was a very philosophic man, I expect he would have enjoyed that.  

    But, even if he met Hitler, does that make him a Nazi?   I must have missed the part when someone said or implied that.  

    He did meet Hans von Tschammer und Osten, the Reichssportführer, "Reich Sports Leader", a colonel in the SA, and a very influential Nazi.  He led what became first the Sports governing body of the Third Reich, Deutscher Reichsbund für Leibesübungen (DRL) "Sports League of the German Reich"; then in 1937 it was renamed Nationalsozialistischer Reichsbund für Leibesübungen" National-Socialist Sports League of the German Reich.  Von Tschammer had the book ‘Sport und Staat’ commissioned – perhaps there is mention of  meeting Kano in that.  

    http://www.od43.com/Sport_und_Staat_1934.html  

    Photo?  http://www.budoforum.net/rr/kb1933.jpg

    wdax wrote:Kano´s german was VERY good. This radio speech in 1936 was about 15-20 min and I heard a sequence of ca. 5 min.
    Very nice find, thank you.  What did he say?    

    That would make Kano Shihan at least trilingual – Japanese, English, German.  He also read Chinese.  I have never seen that he spoke any Chinese dialect but have a couple of refs that might shed some light on that.

    Hanon wrote:
    NBK wrote:I find Hanon's comments not understandable.  Interest in this is hardly trying to push someone into negative territory.
    This early on in Hitler's regime, Germany still did have a relatively free press.  Certainly that was more curtailed later, and certainly the major papers would be circumspect in tackling Hitler, but still there should be interesting information.  
    .
    ??????????????????? Please study your German history. Germany had not had anything like a 'free press' for some time when the meeting took place.
    No one by that time would speak or write a negative word about Hitler nor his regime. Many tried, it is still of interest and concern to me to note that during this period Hitler was having tens thousands of German people, from all walks of life, either assassinated or tortured (cleansed and questioned). Control of German maps leaving the country began as early as 1932-4. What Hitler did, what Hitler was, was never a secret to those who lived through that period.
    As Robert wrote we are never going to know what the meeting consisted of. Further, Hitler was the 'leader' of Germany and may have met kano as a matter of diplomacy. Hitler was not the IOC representative for Germany and did not attend IOC meetings. Having written that, Hitler, without a doubt, had total and absolute control over every single action taken by any and all of his governing puppets including those responsible for sport and that would have included judo along with every other sporting activity.
    I have always been fascinated in History my uncle being a professor of the subject. In particular European history of the period 1930 to 1950.
    It was a core element in our second or third year of study at university to study the behaviour of Hitler. I have had to read books that made me feel physically ill. There are not too many psychiatric-psychological dysfunctions that cannot describe Hitler and many of his close followers. This was an 'evil' regime born from severe illnesses-dysfunction in most of his close circle. To the best of my present knowledge kano was not suffering from such illnesses and would not have supported Hitler's war movement, in fact the actions of kano speak for themselves.
    Now if you truly desire to investigate some so called goodie two shoes who did sympathise with Hitler that's another story, that would make a very interesting list but they are all dead and Germany, also Japan have moved on. We now have another nation to concern us with regard world peace and have had for many years.
    .......................................................
    .................................................................
    Mike
    My schedule is a bit busy to tackle world peace just now, thanks.   I have some other projects ongoing.

    I misphrased that bit about free press, but never mind.  

    My point is that a meeting between Hitler and Kano would almost certainly get press coverage, there would be witnesses, and both sides would have agendas.  It would be unimaginable that Kano would use the opportunity to criticize Hitler for things not yet done.  And even if it took place surely no reasonable adult would draw the conclusion that Kano was a Nazi sympathizer just because he met the head Nazi.  (Jessie Owens came close to meeting Hitler- did that make him close to being a Nazi?)  But the platitudes themselves would be interesting.  

    Off topic, recording this trip Kotani wrote of seeing a German jujutsu demo – there is also a two part article in Judo magazine of the era regarding ‘German Jujutsu’.  Apparently there is a long history of jujutsu-like combatives / self defense in Germany.  I wonder if Kano taught any judo while studying there for a year and a half. It would seem to be reasonable enough, given his history and personal interests, but I can’t recall ever seeing anything on it.  Wouldn’t it be interesting to see if Kano had an influence on European ‘jujutsu’ in all its complex brutality??  

    And of course Kano’s actions speak some things, but his voluminous writings speak of other things.  

    I wouldn’t be so sure about Kano’s illnesses vis a vis some of Hitler’s cohorts – by this time Kano had less than 4 years to live, and was apparently already in declining health.  

    As you point out, Hitler had control of the government.  And the government rolled out the red carpet for Kano; there was a special sports event held for the Japanese delegation, he met the senior German sports official, etc.   So, one could say that you are saying that Hitler personally ensured that his government rolled out the red carpet for Kano.  

    I’d take another view, as I’ve seen no evidence to indicate Adolf’s personal involvement, but certainly the visit was not just some old man wandering around unnoticed.  Given his status, fluency in German, and prior study in Germany, I would bet there’s more press to be found.  

    NBK
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    BillC

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by BillC on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:43 pm

    NBK wrote:
    My point is that a meeting between Hitler and Kano would almost certainly get press coverage, there would be witnesses, and both sides would have agendas.  It would be unimaginable that Kano would use the opportunity to criticize Hitler for things not yet done.  And even if it took place surely no reasonable adult would draw the conclusion that Kano was a Nazi sympathizer just because he met the head Nazi.  (Jessie Owens came close to meeting Hitler- did that make him close to being a Nazi?)  But the platitudes themselves would be interesting.  
    Louis Zamperini did meet Hitler ... and spent three years as a "guest" in Japan from 1942 until the end of the war ... he told me the story in person while we were both waiting for a flight to LA ... yeah, the meeting did not make him a Nazi.


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    Reinberger

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Reinberger on Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:03 am

    A first find from one of the sources, that wdax suggested:

    Vossische Zeitung July 9th, 1933

    "Excellency Kano teaches Jiu-Do

    From Tuesday, July 11th, to Thursday July 20th there will be held a judo-course under the direction of professor Jngoro Kano, in the afternoons from 2-6 and in the evenings from 8-10 at the sports hall in Karlstrasse 12, at which interested persons can participate for a service charge of 3 marks. The event is meant for the promotion of the international consistent Jiu-Jitsu-sport, and shall serve to prepare new rules for the jiu-jitsu-sport. The course is conducted at the request of the Reichssportkommissar von Tschammer und Osten. Applications requested at Ring, Schiffbauerdamm 18."

    I hope, my translation is understandable enough.


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