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    Meeting between Hitler and Kano

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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:07 pm

    Reinberger,

    Thanks for sharing this. I welcome similar to-the-point info with specifics. The role of Matsumae is interesting indeed. I met him in May 1980 during the European Jûdô Championships in Vienna. He was so "authentic" in comparison to Charlie Palmer then.

    What is also surprising is the report from Takasaki who mentions that already a that time there were ... "400–500 clubs throughout the country" in Germany !


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    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
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    Reinberger

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Reinberger on Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:33 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:What is also surprising is the report from Takasaki who mentions that already a that time there were ... "400–500 clubs throughout the country" in Germany !  

    400–500 clubs in Germany in 1933 sounds a bit overassessed, indeed. Only a few clubs practiced Kōdōkan jūdō at all, at this time in Germany, but even if the jiu-jitsu-clubs are included, the numbers seem to be very high.

    On the other hand, Erich Rahn had started his job more than a quarter of a century ago already, as had another pioneer, seemingly often neglected in German JJ-history:  Balzard Fueger, who had learnt in Paris, had opened his school in Munich around the same time as Rahn in Berlin. Moreover, Rahn already had started to issue his correspondence courses, although they only found a wider distribution from 1936 onward. But who knows, what stuff was counted as "club", in these days?


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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:02 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:"Nonetheless, said Kano, 'Should Mussolini be approached in the right way, he will be willing to throw his influence in favor of Japan. Mussolini is a very great man and has sympathetic understanding of this country and its interests.' " (Japan Times, November 22, 1933, page 2)
    Yes.... do you have the rest of the article? Context would help. Otherwise, Hanon will have a heart attack, thinking one might infer that Kano was a Fascist.
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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:50 pm

    NBK wrote:Yes.... do you have the rest of the article?  Context would help.  Otherwise, Hanon will have a heart attack, thinking one might infer that Kano was a Fascist.  

    I do not have the full article electronically available on my machine and the Japan Times Digital Archives are not available for free, unfortunately: http://ipm.japantimes.co.jp/info/digital_archives/#page2

    I hope that Joe Svinth is lurking; he has a lot of experience and know-how with regard to all kinds of alternative ways to get these newspaper articles. Would it be available through the National Diet Library ?

    I would not worry too much. It is only logically that people think favorably or may pose for pics with other people before they turn nuts and give way to become psychopaths. I am sure that I have had lunch or posed for pics with people who later turned out to be wife-beaters or worse. I wouldn't like to feed the number of politicians who once proudly posed for pics with Khadafi, Sadam Hussein, Stalin, Osama Bin Ladin, etc. I would imagine --but this is merely speculation-- that the same explanation you provided with regard to potentially meeting Hitler would apply here. In this case the statement even directly refers to the need or at least desire for support.


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    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:53 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    NBK wrote:Yes.... do you have the rest of the article?  Context would help.  Otherwise, Hanon will have a heart attack, thinking one might infer that Kano was a Fascist.  

    ...........I would not worry too much. It is only logically that people think favorably or may pose for pics with other people before they turn nuts and give way to become psychopaths. I am sure that I have had lunch or posed for pics with people who later turned out to be wife-beaters or worse. I wouldn't like to feed the number of politicians who once proudly posed for pics with Khadafi, Sadam Hussein, Stalin, Osama Bin Ladin, etc. I would imagine  --but this is merely speculation--  that the same explanation you provided with regard to potentially meeting Hitler would apply here. In this case the statement even directly refers to the need or at least desire for support.
    I know what you mean. I think I even have a pic of you and me someplace...  What a Face 

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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:21 am

    Reinberger wrote:Some mentions:

    _______________

    “The 150th Anniversary of Japan-Germany Friendship — Opening the Door to the Future through Cultural Exchange”
    Monday, December 6, 2010, The Tokai University Club

    Germany-Japan judo exchange
    Assistant Executive Director Toshiaki Hashimoto:


    On January 24, 1861, with the signing of the treaty of friendship, commerce and navigation, exchange began between Japan and what was then Prussia. Master Kano studied in Germany in 1889 (the 22nd year of Meiji) and the following year, when he was 30 years old. At that time, the German Empire and Japan enjoyed an extremely good relationship and many young Japanese traveled to Germany to study. It is well known that the Meiji Constitution was modeled on that of Germany.

    Another example of the amicable relationship might be that Ogai Mori, a famous novelist, was sent to Germany to become an army surgeon; he studied medicine in Berlin from 1884 to 1888. Master Kano’s German visit occurred just after Ogai’s return to Japan. During his stay in Germany, Master Kano may have directly taught judo. I would like to elaborate on this based on certain material.

    Judo, the bulletin of Kodokan, published in 1933 (July issue, the 8th year of Showa) carried a report entitled “Judo in Europe” written by Keishichi Ishiguro, who went to France in 1924 (the 13th year of Taisho) and worked mainly in Paris. He wrote in the report: “We could definitely say that judo was formally introduced to Europe when Master Kano visited for the first time in September 1889 (the 22nd year of Meiji).” He also points out that after listening to many Japanese students talk about judo and jujitsu, German people were developing a German-style judo. Actually, the German-style judo is said to have existed when Master Kano visited Germany.

    In 1933 (the 8th year of Showa), Master Kano traveled to Europe via Siberia with Sumiyuki Kotani, a sixth dan at that time, and Masami Takasaki. By way of Moscow, they arrived in Berlin on June 15, and then toured through Europe including Germany, France, the United Kingdom, and Spain, spreading judo as well as having preliminary discussions to found the International Judo Federation. They also worked hard to bring the Olympics to Japan.

    Mr. Takasaki also contributed a travel article entitled “Memoir of Attendance” to the bulletin Judo. According to him, the purpose of Master Kano’s visit to Berlin was to spread judo, promote its proper understanding, and “observe the so-called German-style judo.” Mr. Takasaki’s memoir reports that the German-style judo had become widespread and there were 400–500 clubs throughout the country.

    There is a record as well that Master Kano met with officials of the German government including Prime Minister Hitler and exchanged opinions about the educational situation in Japan. Master Kano also visited a sports university, a police academy, and a sports school of the German army where he gave lectures on judo. The record states that Master Kano had a good command of foreign languages, and flexibly changed languages depending on the circumstances, adding explanations in German and/or English while giving lectures in Japanese. During the one-month stay in Berlin, they gave a two-hour lecture twice a day, for 10 days. Mr. Takasaki reported that the attendees’ earnest attitude impressed them as “demonstrating a wonderful German characteristic.” Master Kano also attended the German Sports Festival held in Stuttgart, where he happened to see Hitler making a famous speech in front of the audience. Lecture sessions by Master Kano were held in Munich as well.

    Prof. Sumiyuki Kotani accompanying Master Kano wrote an essay, “Travelling Europe accompanying Master Kano,” which was subsequently incorporated in a book entitled The Straight Path of Judo published in 1984 by Baseball Magazine Sha Co., Ltd. Prof. Kotani said that Kitabatake Kyoshin, a future member of the House of Councillors who at the time was a fifth dan and studied in Germany, took them around the sights of Germany. Personally astonished, Master Kano is reported to have mentioned the huge difference between Germany where he had studied at the age of 30 and the same country he visited again in 1933 (the 8th year of Showa) when he was 72 or 73 years old.

    Prof. Kotani also wrote: “Young Germans are so enthusiastic that their spirit rises to the skies. We were very surprised to hear that they wanted to learn all the judo techniques from us during our stay in Berlin.” They were police officials in the old-jujitsu style uniform, shorts and a half-sleeved jacket. Yet they stated that jujitsu originated in Germany and then spread to Japan, claiming that they are the founders of jujitsu. This explanation “astounded” Prof. Kotani. However, Master Kano smiled while listening to them and then explained the principles of judo to the German participants. What Prof. Kotani never failed to mention is the deliciousness of the beer that he enjoyed in the beer halls after judo practice. “Unforgettable” is the word he used, which is a universal, timeless impression, I suppose.

    To diffuse the spirit of judo throughout the world The founder of Tokai University, Dr. Shigeyoshi Matsumae, who laid a major ideological foundation for the establishment of our NPO, studied abroad in Germany in 1933. While reading his autobiography, I learned that he left Japan on April 1, 1933 and returned on June 1 the following year. He arrived in Berlin in early June and practiced judo in a judo school where Mr. Kitabatake also attended. This is also mentioned at the beginning of the World History of Judo compiled by Sanzo Maruyama. According to the autobiography, Dr. Matsumae worked to arrange a lecture meeting with Master Kano, who explained the essence of judo in German and visited Siemens where Dr. Matsumae studied. Finally, Dr. Matsumae remarks that the development of judo, which was included in the Tokyo Olympic Games and has become a world sport, is attributed to the efforts of Master Kano, the founder of judo.

    As you know, Dr. Shigeyoshi Matsumae stood as a candidate for president of the International Judo Federation despite his advanced age. I presume it is because the image of Master Kano held a special place in his heart, as a passionate lecturer on judo in Germany in spite of much more unfavorable travel conditions and his advanced age.

    After coming back from Germany, Master Kano sent an article to a Kodokan magazine saying, “Kodokan Judo, or contemporary judo aims at not only physical training but also at an understanding of the fundamental principles of judo and their application to all aspects of social life. It is not just a few people who focus only on the techniques, forgetting the spiritual elements of judo. My work from now on is to encourage people to spiritually apply the judo principles in society. Similarly, Kodokan needs to work harder for that purpose in the future.” I think this is a sincere wish of the founder that the spirit of judo should be spread and applied in society.

    It follows then that his wish can also be a guiding principle for the humble activities of our NPO. Pursuing the purpose of judo set by the founder, Master Jigoro Kano, we would like to work together with you. Today, we will hear more about our relationship with Germany, which has had a strong association with the Japanese people including Master Kano. I am trulylooking forward to it.

    I would like to once again introduce today’s guest speaker, Mr. Harald Gehrig. Please welcome him with applause. Mr. Gehrig is First Counselor and Head of Cultural Affairs of the Embassy of the Federal Republic of Germany in Japan and works hard for Japan-Germany cultural exchange. Thank you very much, Mr. Gehrig. Ms. Sasaki of the German Embassy will serve as interpreter.
    ________________


    In case somebody is interested in it: detail of a photo from members of the IOC 1936 in Berlin, published in "Olympia Zeitung" from July 31st, 1936. Kanō-shihan arm in arm with another member of the IOC:


    There is another photo from the IOC members at a reception by Goering, with Goering, Goebbels, and other members of the NS-government in the issue from August 2nd, 1936. But the picture was taken from behind/above the IOC-group - therefore, like many other participants, Kanō-shihan can't be identified - if he attended at all.
    Great data.

    A Hitler address at the June 1933 Stuttgart Sports Festival must've been quite a spectacle.  The Nazis had great productions while the party lasted.   A quick search shows these pics:



    Google 'Deutsche Turnfest stuttgart 1933' for tons more.
    I wonder if there's a transcript?

    Off topic, but note Kano shihan's stance in the Olympic party pic.  Legs wide apart.  In many many photos, he sits or stands with his knees apart or feet in a wide stance.  And mostly with a hat, an attitude, a stance that seems a bit .... different... from everyone else in the photo.  

    Dr. Matsumae was a fascinating gent that left quite a legacy.  Invented the undersea cable that tied together the planet (and made an insane amount of money).  
    The Spirit of Dr. Matsumae

    Thanks for this info, great stuff.

    NBK
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:53 am

    NBK wrote:
    I know what you mean.  I think I even have a pic of you and me someplace...  What a Face 


    Ha, ha, ha, haaaa, since I am not a wife beater that can only mean that I fall in the category 'worse'. Luckily being a psychopath and sociopath are recognized illnesses, so I am not responsible personally.   cheers


    I found the following picture  --which has NOTHING to do with Kanô--  interesting:



    _________________


    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
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    Reinberger

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Reinberger on Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:15 am

    Reinberger wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:What is also surprising is the report from Takasaki who mentions that already a that time there were ... "400–500 clubs throughout the country" in Germany !  

    400–500 clubs in Germany in 1933 sounds a bit overassessed, indeed. Only a few clubs practiced Kōdōkan jūdō at all, at this time in Germany, but even if the jiu-jitsu-clubs are included, the numbers seem to be very high.

    On the other hand, Erich Rahn had started his job more than a quarter of a century ago already, as had another pioneer, seemingly often neglected in German JJ-history:  Balzard Fueger, who had learnt in Paris, had opened his school in Munich around the same time as Rahn in Berlin. Moreover, Rahn already had started to issue his correspondence courses, although they only found a wider distribution from 1936 onward. But who knows, what stuff was counted as "club", in these days?

    Some different numbers, that I've found:

    1. Sport und Staat, 2. Band (Berlin, 1937) edited by P. G. Hoffmann and Arno Breitmeyer "im Auftrage des Reichssportfuehrers", contains a "History of the German Jiu-Jitsu-Federation":

    "1931: 20 clubs with 500 members belonged to the "Reichsverband", 70 clubs with 2500 members to "Deutscher-Athletik-Sport-Verband"."

    2. Bernd Wedemeyer: Von Asien nach Europa: Aspekte zur Rezeptionsgeschichte fernoestlicher Koerperpraktiken. In: Inken Prohl, Hartmut Zinser (Hrsg.). 2002. Zen, Reiki, Karate: Japanische Religiositaet in Europa (p.249- 266):

    "1922 the "Verband Deutscher Jiu-Jitsu-Kaempfer" was founded, and regional and federation-wide tournaments were organized. At the beginning of the 1930ies, this organization, now called "Reichsverband fuer Jiu-Jitsu" had 500 members. .... The Jiu-Jitsu-Federation was integrated into "Deutscher-Athletik-Sport-Verband", which represented the "Schwerathletik".  ... 1930 the DASV involved 1000 clubs, including 70 jiu-jitsu-clubs or -sections.

    I think, that are more realistic numbers. So why did Takasaki mention 400-500 clubs? Perhaps, he simply was told so, and  it has to do with the following development: I've read several articles from 1933, where it was stated that "now, as the goal is attained" (and the Nazis rule) the SA shall be reorganized and more oriented toward sports. Obviously, a martial art that covers close-combat, fits well into the paramilitary training of such an institution. Therefore, officials of the NSDAP may well have simply added the numbers of several SA-groups into the total of "jiu-jitsu-clubs". Of course, that's only an assumption.


    NBK wrote: Off topic, but note Kano shihan's stance in the Olympic party pic.  Legs wide apart.  In many many photos, he sits or stands with his knees apart or feet in a wide stance.  And mostly with a hat, an attitude, a stance that seems a bit .... different... from everyone else in the photo.

    I was more surprised about this rather western attitude of "standing arm in arm" with his neighbor at this photo. Of course, we don't know, if a display of friendship was the reason for that, or if his colleague have had any physical problem, and Kanō-shihan simply supported him. Either possibility, in that case at least, would have provided a specific reason for taking a more stable stance.


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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:03 am

    There are several pix of Kano shihan leaning on things, knees wide apart, close proximity to someone, etc. sometimes he seems to exude joy in the moment.

    Supposedly he didn't drink but I've wondered I there wasn't a soporific involved...

    Anyhow sometimes it seems he was genuinely enjoying himself.
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    Reinberger

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Reinberger on Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:47 am

    Of course. But that had been an official, formal event. Look at the particular formal attire everybody wore, not just an ordinary suit and a tie, or bow tie, like on other pictures from the 1936 games. The members of the IOC had just received the "newly created chains of honor", they all wear on the photo. Not quite a typical moment for informal manners by a Japanese, I guess. Therefore, I think this picture is special.


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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:19 am

    There is some easy to read stuff about Kanô's relationship to the OLympics, here:

    http://www.joc.or.jp/english/historyjapan/kano_jigoro.html


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    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:24 pm

    There are a couple of websites established for Kano shihan's 150 year birth anniversary that provide a nice overview.
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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:12 am

    Reinberger wrote:
    Reinberger wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:What is also surprising is the report from Takasaki who mentions that already a that time there were ... "400–500 clubs throughout the country" in Germany !  

    400–500 clubs in Germany in 1933 sounds a bit overassessed, indeed. Only a few clubs practiced Kōdōkan jūdō at all, at this time in Germany, but even if the jiu-jitsu-clubs are included, the numbers seem to be very high.

    On the other hand, Erich Rahn had started his job more than a quarter of a century ago already, as had another pioneer, seemingly often neglected in German JJ-history:  Balzard Fueger, who had learnt in Paris, had opened his school in Munich around the same time as Rahn in Berlin. Moreover, Rahn already had started to issue his correspondence courses, although they only found a wider distribution from 1936 onward. But who knows, what stuff was counted as "club", in these days?

    Some different numbers, that I've found:

    1. Sport und Staat, 2. Band (Berlin, 1937) edited by P. G. Hoffmann and Arno Breitmeyer "im Auftrage des Reichssportfuehrers", contains a "History of the German Jiu-Jitsu-Federation":

    "1931: 20 clubs with 500 members belonged to the "Reichsverband", 70 clubs with 2500 members to "Deutscher-Athletik-Sport-Verband"."

    2. Bernd Wedemeyer: Von Asien nach Europa: Aspekte zur Rezeptionsgeschichte fernoestlicher Koerperpraktiken. In: Inken Prohl, Hartmut Zinser (Hrsg.). 2002. Zen, Reiki, Karate: Japanische Religiositaet in Europa (p.249- 266):

    "1922 the "Verband Deutscher Jiu-Jitsu-Kaempfer" was founded, and regional and federation-wide tournaments were organized. At the beginning of the 1930ies, this organization, now called "Reichsverband fuer Jiu-Jitsu" had 500 members. .... The Jiu-Jitsu-Federation was integrated into "Deutscher-Athletik-Sport-Verband", which represented the "Schwerathletik".  ... 1930 the DASV involved 1000 clubs, including 70 jiu-jitsu-clubs or -sections.

    I think, that are more realistic numbers. So why did Takasaki mention 400-500 clubs? Perhaps, he simply was told so, and  it has to do with the following development: I've read several articles from 1933, where it was stated that "now, as the goal is attained" (and the Nazis rule) the SA shall be reorganized and more oriented toward sports. Obviously, a martial art that covers close-combat, fits well into the paramilitary training of such an institution. Therefore, officials of the NSDAP may well have simply added the numbers of several SA-groups into the total of "jiu-jitsu-clubs". Of course, that's only an assumption.


    NBK wrote: Off topic, but note Kano shihan's stance in the Olympic party pic.  Legs wide apart.  In many many photos, he sits or stands with his knees apart or feet in a wide stance.  And mostly with a hat, an attitude, a stance that seems a bit .... different... from everyone else in the photo.

    I was more surprised about this rather western attitude of "standing arm in arm" with his neighbor at this photo. Of course, we don't know, if a display of friendship was the reason for that, or if his colleague have had any physical problem, and Kanō-shihan simply supported him. Either possibility, in that case at least, would have provided a specific reason for taking a more stable stance.
    Reinberger, I would encourage you to start a separate thread on German / European jujutsu.  The influence of these early jj clubs is evident even today.

    I would contribute info regarding the two part, mid-1930's Judo magazine article on 'German jujutsu'.  I don't have it with me over the holidays but perhaps it was sparked by this visit.

    And the beer doesn't suck, either.

    Cheers,
    NBK


    Last edited by NBK on Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:13 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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    Reinberger

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Reinberger on Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:04 am

    NBK,

    that would be very interesting, indeed, but it would also become a monster-thread, I'm afraid! In fact, I've speculated for years about combining all the chips and pieces (that I have/know) of the puzzle regarding the history of "European" or "Western" jūjutsu and jūdō, but, of course, in German. It still would be a mega-task, and would eat up plenty of time, I simply don't have. For me, to top it by trying to do something similar in English, would definitely be too presumptuous. Moreover, nearly every time I look into some details, I find out new facts or learn something new by someone else.

    Nevertheless, I've already tried  similar things, but only about certain aspects, in the past. In the old forum, I started a thread about an early mention of coloured obi. A search for details about Higashi Katsukuma, his alleged teacher Tsutsumi Masao, as well as about the style they taught/practised emerged from that, and that alone finally turned it into a very long thread. In another thread I tried to give and gather informations and details about Tobari Takisaburō. In another forum, I guess, I once tried to find out, where something like "Ushiro mawashi geri", demonstrated by Uenishi Sadakazu in London as early as around 1904, might have come from.

    Often, discussions about those specifics alone turn into long, lively discussions. That's why I think, a "thread on German / European jūjutsu" would enclose a field, much too big for one thread. Threads about certain questions, persons, or even periods of time might be more reasonable. But regarding Austria alone, for example, I could start my journey to the past at 1595, with Archduke Ferdinand II., and then with Emperor Rudolf II.: what's the story behind the two Japanese suits of armour, he got around 1600, by either Toyotomi, Tokugawa or the Tennō? Then there are those historic Japanese events, that built, sometimes quite promptly, the basis for certain plays performed in the theatres at the schools of Jesuits and Benedictines in the 17th century. Christoph Carl (Matthias) Fernberger von Egenberg was the first Austrian who's stay in Japan in 1625 is documented, Baron Moritz August Benyovski should have been the second in 1771. We all know about several, even much earlier westerners in Japan, and about the Japanese that came to the West. Per chance, or as official envoys of the bakufu or of a daimyō. Did any knowledge about jūjutsu evolve from any of these incidents? Finally, in the 19th century, after Japan's opening to the world, miscellaneous Japanese circus-artistes toured the West and entertained the audience with their stunts, that sometimes included martial arts. Others came to study at Western universities. Did they bring any knowledge about jūjutsu with them?

    Details from an advertisement of a Japanese group at a circus in Germany, around 1890:


    Then there was the journey of Kanō-shihan to Europe in 1889. I've read several mentions about him having introduced his jūdō to the Europeans at this time. Ishiguro was one who said so in 1933, but apparently without giving sources. As I couldn't find any details and contemporary sources for that so far, I remain sceptic. That leads us to Edward William Barton-Wright and his Bartitsu, documented so well by Tony Wolf and the Bartitsu-Forum. At this time, I regard that story as the most plausible regarding the starting point of jūjutsu in Europe (although, the British seem to distinguish between their country, and Europe Wink). You see, that all is (more than only one) "wide field". Maybe also too wide, for only one thread. But perhaps, to start with Kanō-shihan's activities between 1889 and 1891, may be a good start, for a series of threads, covering that general topic. It would, however, take a long time until we'll arrive at a thread about the mid-1930's.


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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:12 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    NBK wrote:Yes.... do you have the rest of the article?  Context would help.  Otherwise, Hanon will have a heart attack, thinking one might infer that Kano was a Fascist.  

    I do not have the full article electronically available on my machine and the Japan Times Digital Archives are not available for free, unfortunately: http://ipm.japantimes.co.jp/info/digital_archives/#page2

    .....
    I priced the Japan Times DVDs - they are very expensive.

    JT plans to have their archives online May 2014.
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:30 am

    NBK wrote:I meant Kano also 'studied' in Germany during that yr and a half abroad.

    Also when he moved to Tokyo as a child, one of the first schools he attended was a private juku where he studied under a couple of foreigners - German and Dutch - cramming English and .... German IIRC  *

    I'm traveling don't have materials.

    * edited to acknowledge ref to CK earlier, more detailed note on this fact.  Been reading on a smart phone, hard to see anything in context.  

    I found a reference in which Kanô actually addresses himself his knowledge of German:

    "As I have mentioned before, I arrived in Berlin towards the end of December 1889. Without delay, I rented a room at the "Chigeru" Avenue [CK: I have no idea what this means; 'Chigeru' hardly sounds like a German streetname to me] not far from the Friedrich Bahnhof [CK: this is what the place looked like, and it was located near the Friedrichstrasse, in what later became East-Berlin, I believe:

    ]

    I stayed until July of the following year, but considering the little German that I had learnt in my youth from the Dutchman Raillet [CK: 'Raillet' does not exactly sound Dutch] my level was even more inadequate than my French, but I also studied German with a certain Herr Gustmach. Somewhat before that there already was K. Tsuboi who had ben residing in Germany, and he held a Doctorate in Literature and was until that point Rector of the University of Literature [CK: One would need to look what exactly the "University of Literature" was or that perhaps rather the Faculty of Literature of a certain Berlin University was meant. It's somewhat hard to believe that a foreigner would hold the post of Rector of a German university in those days, but perhas Kanô meant 'Dean' rather than 'Rector']. He had graduated the same years as I, so I went to introduce msyelf to him. In those days there really wasn't really a Japanese embassy, but Japan was legally represented in France by Viscount Tanaka Fujimarô and in Germany Marquess (currently 'Duc') saionji. The current Marquess Inoue Katsunosuke, private counselor to the Emperor, also was secretary to the legal representation in Germany. I think that the current members of the Chamber [CK: not sure which Chamber], Fujita Shirô and Hayakawa Tetsuji probabl held the rank of secretaries. Among the gents who were were living in Berlin in those days, were Miyoshi Taizô who later became president of the Supreme Court and Hoshi Toru. Among those who also had stayed there were  the late Goto Shinpei, Tanaka Mashira, Inoue Tetsujirô, Tanakadate Aikichi and Hidaka Minoru.

    Not far from where I lived, I found a street called "Arucheri" [CK: again a very strange sounding name for a street in Germany; Maybe what is meant is the Japanese katakana translation of "archery" and there used to be a street that was actually named "Bogenschießen strasse" or something similar ?]. Among those living there was the lady Von Ragelström, a lady of fame who was nicknamed "the old Japanese lady", who provide lodging to Japanese and other foreign visitors. This "elderly Japanese lady" liked Japan very much and was very kind to her Japanese visitors. People like the physician Kitao Jirô who had brutally disappeared [CK: I have no idea what is implied here; was this a German citizen who was murdered while in Berlin ?], and Tanaka Masahira, an erudite physician with extensive knowledge of music, was among those favored by the "elderly Japanese lady".

    In those days, the Japanese were very numerous, and quickly created a meeting place. I rented a room with this lady, just like Tanaka Masahira had done. Evidently, Hidaka Minoru and other Japanese regularly met at this place. Hidaka excellently knew how to cook eel, and I frequently went over there to eat. In this place they also knew how to cook Japanese rice and we went over there of a frequent basis because they also knew, for example, how to cook cucumber tsukemono [CK: 'tsukemono' are Japanese pickled veggies]." (...)

    It's included also in Kanô Jûdô Taikei.


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    NBK

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:12 pm

    Ok, now that's a bit more info to the topic, thank you.

    So this seems reasonable to me.  Note that he was there for only 6-7 months (but he didn't say that he wasn't in Germany before, but only not in Berlin). I believe the 'K. Tsuboi' was his 'rival' in youth - Kano mentions him a couple of times earlier in his recollections.

    The 29 year old Kano wasn't just attending parties, but certainly also managed time to socialize with a number of very interesting people. He studied German for some time, at least to his satisfaction to be able to say he studied. Perhaps he's being modest about his abilities but he noted some proficiency in French & German.
     
    CK, there's no reason 'Mr. Raille' couldn't be of French or other non-Dutch descent,  living in Holland, then teaching in Tokyo when Kano was a child.

    And the names Kano drops, as usual, are like a Who's Who. Prince Saionji was one of the most famous names in Japanese politics, went on to be the last genryo and personal advisor to Emperor Hirohito (not that he would be involved with the Japanese ryugakusei, but I would assume he'd be aware of them as they were sponsored by the Japanese government).
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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by NBK on Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:28 pm

    I just dug up the text of a very long Dec 1933 speech that Kano shihan gave after his trip to the International Olympic Committee, and various places to introduce judo, and he mentions that some unspecified 'young people met Hitler' - presumably he means Otani and Takasaki, who were accompanying him. I haven't had time to read it - it's insanely long and rambling (apparently a dinner speech, no less! I'd be passed out in the soup) - and I'm still puzzling out who he was addressing. Also, maddeningly, it doesn't specify whether Kano shihan himself met Hitler, or was present when the young people met him, but without the massive ego of so many today ('Selfie time!') perhaps he was there and it simply didn't occur to him to play up his meeting Hitler.

    See here for some details about the trip.

    http://judo.forumsmotion.com/t2285-jigoro-kanos-trips-to-europe-1933-1934

    Also in late 1933, who knew what Hitler would become? At the time he was simply another leftwing authoritative politician.
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    noboru

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by noboru on Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:06 am

    NBK wrote: At the time he was simply another leftwing authoritative politician.

    Exactly. From year 1934 he started his violence and used his force... Olympiade in Berlin was 2 years later (summer 1936).
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    finarashi

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    Re: Meeting between Hitler and Kano

    Post by finarashi on Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:38 pm

    There is no way Kano did not meet Hitler as he was (as member of OC) attending 1936 Olympics in Berlin where Hitler also attended. I personally have met several people who shook hands with Hitler when they attended 1936 Olympics. My impression was that as a politician Hitler went around and tried to shake hands with people.


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