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    Is this legal?

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    samsmith2424

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    Join date : 2013-01-03

    Is this legal?

    Post by samsmith2424 on Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:09 am

    ¨ninja choke
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    BillC

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    Location : Vista, California

    Re: Is this legal?

    Post by BillC on Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:59 am

    samsmith2424 wrote:¨ninja choke
    Hello there Sam I Am.  Sorry, no green eggs and ham for me this morning.  Kalbi dipped in raw egg and a passable bowl of kimchjjige.  Yum yum.  Breakfast of champions.

    Some answers to your question:

    1.  Expect anything with the words "ninja" or "zen" or "roll" to be ridiculed by certain members of this forum ... starting with me.

    2.  What a ninja would be doing giving away a perfectly good and much stronger osaekomi position for a less sure choke while turning onto his back ... anyway, it's not good judo.

    3.  No, not legal.  I think the cops would frown on you going around town practicing this on random people.

    4.  As if I give a rat's ass what the IJF says about rules this week ... no ... according to clarifications issued just recently, choking with the bottom of the jacket is not allowed.

    5.  To repeat ... why would anyone sane do this ... for any reason?


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    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
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    samsmith2424

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    Re: Is this legal?

    Post by samsmith2424 on Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:01 am

    I thought we could choke using the bottom of the jacket if it was pulled out from the belt.

    And are you saying this choke at 9:27 and at about 11 minutes are also illegal judo-jesus perez?
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    BillC

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    Re: Is this legal?

    Post by BillC on Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:21 am

    samsmith2424 wrote:I thought we could choke using the bottom of the jacket if it was pulled out from the belt.

    And are you saying this choke at 9:27 and at about 11 minutes are also illegal judo-jesus perez?
    I dunno Sam ... you read it and tell me ...

    JONESY WROTE ... wrote:Article 27
    Points 14 and 18 will be strictly observed for Shime-Waza is not allowed with either your own or your opponents belt or bottom of the jacket, or using only the fingers.
    Back to my question though ... why would you abandon kesagatame ... which is already established and is a win after 20 seconds ... for a choke which may be countered and which in any case leaves you in turn on your back?

    As to the chokes shown by Jesus ... hey ... his birthday is coming up and I don't want to miss the party by pissing him off.



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    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Is this legal?

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:26 am

    samsmith2424 wrote:¨ninja choke
    "Legal" ?  You mean you are worried that the Judo Police will come, arrest you and put in jail, and you'll have to appear in court just because you did this possibly "illegal" choke ?

    I would hope not !  If on the other hand are asking if this is a valid and scoreable technique during competition, why wouldn't it ?  It's a simple katate-jime, one of the henka sometimes referred to as suso-jime. As long as you use the lapel or the part of the belt that is pulled out of the jacket the Judo Police will leave you alone !

    You do realize that this henka will offer stiff competition with Hanon-sensei's Kôdôkan goshinjutsu ryôte-dori for the most realistic jûdô technique of this weekend !


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    JudoSensei

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    Re: Is this legal?

    Post by JudoSensei on Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:20 am

    I didn't watch the vid, but according to the new rules for 2014-2016 posted at http://www.eju.net/refereeing:

    "...Shime-Waza is not allowed with either your own or
    your opponents belt or bottom of the jacket..."

    samsmith2424

    Posts : 94
    Join date : 2013-01-03

    Re: Is this legal?

    Post by samsmith2424 on Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:40 am

    Now it says

    "As example: the innovative World Championships victory of Yarden Gerbi during the testing period will not be allowed anymore in 2014."

    This is new. It was a nice strangle she did.

    tafftaz

    Posts : 330
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    Location : Wales, UK

    Re: Is this legal?

    Post by tafftaz on Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:31 am

    Someone innovates........then the IJF strangulate. Pun intended.

    IJF = Interfering Jobsworth F*****s


    still learning

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    Age : 48
    Location : South Wales UK

    Re: Is this legal?

    Post by still learning on Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:20 am

    tafftaz wrote:

    IJF = Interfering Jobsworth F*****s

    You could start a whole new thread...

    Shindai Warrior

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    Re: Is this legal?

    Post by Shindai Warrior on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:26 am

    samsmith2424 wrote:Now it says

    "As example: the innovative World Championships victory of Yarden Gerbi during the testing period will not be allowed anymore in 2014."

    This is new. It was a nice strangle she did.
    It was an excellent shime-waza.  

    She "punished" her opponent for trying to avoid doing ne-waza by way of turtle non-combativity.  

    The French girl didn't realize that to turtle, not as a transition but to avoid ne-waza and wait to be rescued by the referee, may be just the debana an enthusiastic ne-waza fighter is looking for.

    I really liked her throw in that fight, too.  Once she slipped her hips into position the French player was a goner.  

    It should have received a higher score.  There was more impact there than many soft Ippon.  

    Her throw reminded me of something Rhonda would do in MMA or  even by Igor Yakimov.

    Delightfully, Yarden Gerbi is equally enthusiastic for both tachi and ne waza.  That could be a start of a trend.  

    Perhaps, that is what the IJF is afraid of and why it has ruled it "illegal".
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    afulldeck

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    Re: Is this legal?

    Post by afulldeck on Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:12 am

    Shindai Warrior wrote:
    samsmith2424 wrote:Now it says

    "As example: the innovative World Championships victory of Yarden Gerbi during the testing period will not be allowed anymore in 2014."

    This is new. It was a nice strangle she did.
    It was an excellent shime-waza.  

    She "punished" her opponent for trying to avoid doing ne-waza by way of turtle non-combativity.  

    The French girl didn't realize that to turtle, not as a transition but to avoid ne-waza and wait to be rescued by the referee, may be just the debana an enthusiastic ne-waza fighter is looking for.

    I really liked her throw in that fight, too.  Once she slipped her hips into position the French player was a goner.  

    It should have received a higher score.  There was more impact there than many soft Ippon.  

    Her throw reminded me of something Rhonda would do in MMA or  even by Igor Yakimov.

    Delightfully, Yarden Gerbi is equally enthusiastic for both tachi and ne waza.  That could be a start of a trend.  

    Perhaps, that is what the IJF is afraid of and why it has ruled it "illegal".
    I think that was the right language, "punishment for avoiding ne waza." I just don't get why the IJF is afraid of this trend. How do you expect to enter into ne waza when the majority flop to the stomach ----- ask? Shhh......


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    medo

    Posts : 276
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    Re: Is this legal?

    Post by medo on Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:47 am

    afulldeck wrote:
    Shindai Warrior wrote:
    samsmith2424 wrote:Now it says

    "As example: the innovative World Championships victory of Yarden Gerbi during the testing period will not be allowed anymore in 2014."

    This is new. It was a nice strangle she did.
    It was an excellent shime-waza.  

    She "punished" her opponent for trying to avoid doing ne-waza by way of turtle non-combativity.  

    The French girl didn't realize that to turtle, not as a transition but to avoid ne-waza and wait to be rescued by the referee, may be just the debana an enthusiastic ne-waza fighter is looking for.

    I really liked her throw in that fight, too.  Once she slipped her hips into position the French player was a goner.  

    It should have received a higher score.  There was more impact there than many soft Ippon.  

    Her throw reminded me of something Rhonda would do in MMA or  even by Igor Yakimov.

    Delightfully, Yarden Gerbi is equally enthusiastic for both tachi and ne waza.  That could be a start of a trend.  

    Perhaps, that is what the IJF is afraid of and why it has ruled it "illegal".
    I think that was the right language, "punishment for avoiding ne waza." I just don't get why the IJF is afraid of this trend. How do you expect to enter into ne waza when the majority flop to the stomach ----- ask? Shhh......
    Each decade produces effective new attacks to the turtle position its one of the most common positions to end up in Judo either on top or under from a failed attack, you just have to practice techniques from both positions defensive or otherwise.

    Here's one which has seen the test of time with many henka

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYXhlYQJQ2M

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