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    Polish full-contact Jujitsu? What's the story behing this?

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    Mr_Michael_or_Mike

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    Polish full-contact Jujitsu? What's the story behing this?

    Post by Mr_Michael_or_Mike on Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:20 am

    Here are two videos showing highlights of Polish Jujitsu tournaments which look similar to MMA, but in a gi. Does anyone have any information on this? What is it's history in Poland? The name Bytom seems to be associated with one video. That appears to be a team, or school in Poland.  Do these tournaments still go on today? Does MMA have any effect on it's practice and, popularity?



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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Polish full-contact Jujitsu? What's the story behing this?

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:49 am

    This is hardcore stuff ! I found it very interesting to watch. Thank you for posting these videos.

    I admit that I liked it a lot more than MMA. This still preserves the character of Japanese martial arts in the sense of the origin of the techniques. There are some nice jûdô techniques being applied, both in tach-waza as in newaza, and there is some effective karate in it, much of which reminds of the Kyokushinkai karate I used to do.

    It's no nonsense and I like it much more than contemporary IJF jûdô. The reasons are as follows:

    - Contemporary IJF jûdô is way overregulated. The IJF has maimed jûdô supposedly to make it more attractive. Yet what is shown in these videos is attractive all the time, with the term 'attractive' meaning 'action', something 'going on'. I agree that on may find it too violent and therefore not attractive, but that is something else. Moreover, if that is the concern, I must point out that it doe not label itself as a budô. Jûjutsu is not a modern budô although most of the techniques shown here are taken from modern budô. We don't see many wrist or finger locks or the similar.

    - What I like very much contrary. What I like very much is the refereeing. In jûdô referees are killing off jûdô with their constant involvement issuing shidô, interrupting, matte, etc. In this case, somehow the referees seem to have understood that they should stay out of a fight as much as possible and let the fighters determine the fight, pace, etc. Doing so does much more to making a fight 'attractive' (in the sense of realistic) than what the IJF is doing.

    One notes also many techniques that ARE jûdô but that are no longer allowed so as lifting up and pounding back on the ground, which was part of classical daki-age in jûdô.

    The matches used traditional jûdô tatami design, and many wore traditional gi.

    There were only two things which I severely disliked:

    - Boy that background 'music' or whatever one wants to call it, was a monstrosity. Where the heck do people get this sort of crap. It puts the whole recording in some kind of skinhead atmosphere, nose and ear rings, big tattoo on the arm and face that says "love, mom", three dots between the thumb and index, and ready to start walking the streets to beat up the homeless, gays and ethnic minorities.

    - Despite some people being properly dressed, those in the blue gi top on white zubon look ridiculous and should be arrested by the fashion police and convicted to 40 years of forced labor camp.


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    seatea

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    Re: Polish full-contact Jujitsu? What's the story behing this?

    Post by seatea on Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:43 am

    Call me cynical, but I reckon this type of competition is relatively new and came about as a response to MMA. Bandwagon jumping if you will.

    Cichorei Kano wrote:- What I like very much contrary. What I like very much is the refereeing. In jûdô referees are killing off jûdô with their constant involvement issuing shidô, interrupting, matte, etc. In this case, somehow the referees seem to have understood that they should stay out of a fight as much as possible and let the fighters determine the fight, pace, etc. Doing so does much more to making a fight 'attractive' (in the sense of realistic) than what the IJF is doing.
    You can't judge a sport by highlight videos, there are dozens of such vids for IJF judo, and of course they don't put all the time the referee interferes in those.


    Boy that background 'music' or whatever one wants to call it, was a monstrosity. Where the heck do people get this sort of crap. It puts the whole recording in some kind of skinhead atmosphere, nose and ear rings, big tattoo on the arm and face that says "love, mom", three dots between the thumb and index, and ready to start walking the streets to beat up the homeless, gays and ethnic minorities.

    Haha, you sound everyday of your 854 years.

    Mr_Michael_or_Mike

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    Re: Polish full-contact Jujitsu? What's the story behing this?

    Post by Mr_Michael_or_Mike on Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:31 pm

    I think tournaments like that can be helpful to understand what they'll face from a real attacker. Not an assassin, but a thug, or tough guy. If they keep a Judo-like environment, it can be a good experience.

    I remember reading that Jujitsu was taught to German military units in 1930s Germany. I was wondering if this was also taught in other Europeans countries? Maybe it had a long history behind the iron curtain, unknown to those in the west? Or, it's just a recent response to MMA? I've found more recent videos on youtube and, it seems to be relegated to Poland, Germany and, maybe Russia.

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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Polish full-contact Jujitsu? What's the story behing this?

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:11 pm

    seatea wrote:You can't judge a sport by highlight videos, there are dozens of such vids for IJF judo, and of course they don't put all the time the referee interferes in those.

    Sure. Point taken. I don't disagree with you, at least not in terms of judging the overall sport.


    seatea wrote:
    Boy that background 'music' or whatever one wants to call it, was a monstrosity. Where the heck do people get this sort of crap. It puts the whole recording in some kind of skinhead atmosphere, nose and ear rings, big tattoo on the arm and face that says "love, mom", three dots between the thumb and index, and ready to start walking the streets to beat up the homeless, gays and ethnic minorities.

    Haha, you sound everyday of your 854 years.

    Hmmm, strange, I like music a lot of music whether from 350 years ago or from 10 years ago, but it still needs to be music, not translated brainwaves of people with ADHD on a combination of coke and meth.[/quote]


    Last edited by Cichorei Kano on Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:14 am; edited 1 time in total


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    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."

    JakubMB

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    Re: Polish full-contact Jujitsu? What's the story behing this?

    Post by JakubMB on Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:26 am

    Okay. I know this and know at least one person who competed in this. Funny thing is it's not a response to mma, because at the time those flicks were shot mma's popularity was near zero in Poland and maybe some of the first VHS cassettes with UFC were bootlegged. So no. The person who actually put mma into spotlight was Paweł Nastula during his Pride GP adventure. Before that there were some mma fights, but not too many.

    I know that some judo clubs participate in this kinds of competition. My friend told me that mostly judo clubs would participate in this. I even remember once seeing some highlights on National Television. I don't think it's a thing anymore. What I know is that there is a growing sambo community in Poland and Combat Sambo might be absorbing the guys who are in need of such excitement.
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    afulldeck

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    Re: Polish full-contact Jujitsu? What's the story behing this?

    Post by afulldeck on Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:05 am

    seatea wrote:Call me cynical, but I reckon this type of competition is relatively new and came about as a response to MMA. Bandwagon jumping if you will.

    Sorry Seatea, you would be wrong. These tournaments are not a response to MMA. These types of tournaments were around at least in the mid-70's to the mid-80s, if not earlier .... not only in Poland, but also Canada.


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    seatea

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    Re: Polish full-contact Jujitsu? What's the story behing this?

    Post by seatea on Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:59 am

    afulldeck wrote:
    seatea wrote:Call me cynical, but I reckon this type of competition is relatively new and came about as a response to MMA. Bandwagon jumping if you will.

    Sorry Seatea, you would be wrong. These tournaments are not a response to MMA. These types of tournaments were around at least in the mid-70's to the mid-80s, if not earlier .... not only in Poland, but also Canada.

    Shame they didn't have someone like Rorian Gracie to promote the hell out of it... on second thoughts maybe not.

    Mr_Michael_or_Mike

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    Re: Polish full-contact Jujitsu? What's the story behing this?

    Post by Mr_Michael_or_Mike on Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:32 am

    This type of fighting tourney was apparently done in the United States. Most of the action seems to be from the late 1990s/early 2000s, about the same era as the Polish tourneys. It shows more wrestling, than judo. It's called Sport Jujitsu. It's basically a high light film for Paul Creighton, who now runs and MMA school in Georgia, but it gives more visual evidence for this type of sport.


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    afulldeck

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    Re: Polish full-contact Jujitsu? What's the story behing this?

    Post by afulldeck on Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:07 am

    Mr_Michael_or_Mike wrote:This type of fighting tourney was apparently done in the United States. Most of the action seems to be from the late 1990s/early 2000s, about the same era as the Polish tourneys.  It shows more wrestling, than judo.  It's called Sport Jujitsu. It's basically a high light film for Paul Creighton, who now runs and MMA school in Georgia, but it gives more visual evidence for this type of sport.



    Thanks for pointing out this video. You will noticed near the 3/4 mark the TV announcer noted that tournament was in Vancouver Canada. Which brings me to my earlier comment that this type of sport jiu-jitsu was around in Canada for some considerable time. Its unfortunate that BJJ seem to have taken over the world of jiu-jitsu when there was more exciting action to be had.....


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    Mr_Michael_or_Mike

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    Many BJJ players would like this

    Post by Mr_Michael_or_Mike on Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:04 pm

    I would think many BJJ players would enjoy this type of sport as they can utilize the gi.

    It seems that the striking on the ground is limited compared to standing up. No punching to the face on the ground might interest grapplers.

    DougNZ

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    Re: Polish full-contact Jujitsu? What's the story behing this?

    Post by DougNZ on Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:42 pm

    Many countries involved in the pre-ISJA era of WCJJO had these events. In the UK, for example, it was called Knock Down Sport Budo. However, WCJJO only offered light-contact free-fighting. It wasn't until ISJA was formed that full-contact sport jiu jitsu divisions were offered at 'world games' level.

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