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    Developing a Winning Technique

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    Yaburi

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    Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by Yaburi on Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:03 am

    DEVELOPING A WINNING JUDO TECHNIQUE
    By Mark Lonsdale
    Ever wonder how champions such as Takamasa Anai or Tokuzo Takahashi, from LA Tenri Dojo, could run a ten-man slaughter line using only one or two techniques? I wondered the same thing when former World Champion and Tokai University coach Nobuyuki Sato bounced me all over the mat for 10 minutes using nothing but tai-otoshi. Granted, I was only 20 years old at the time, but if you want to learn their secrets, read on….

    Developing a winning judo technique and becoming a champion is not rocket science. In theory it is quite simple, but in practice is not so easy. It is in the attempted implementation of the following that the judoka will discover whether or not he or she has the dedication and perseverance to make the grade.

    The short answer to the Super-waza puzzle is to simply train harder, longer, more often, and smarter than your opponents. To expand on that, here is how it works:

    1. Select and develop a nice clean technique, for example uchi-mata

    2. Practice two or three different lines of attack, such as a direct entry, a circular entry to the right, and a step-back spinning entry (just examples).

    3. Do more uchi-komi than the other judoka in your club. If they are doing 100, then you do 200 or 300, but keep the movements clean and correct. Uchi-komi can also be done at home with a belt around a post or a strong hook in the wall.

    4. Incorporate forty or fifty nage-komi each day, throwing into a crash pad, so that you can throw at full speed and full power.

    5. Practice applying this technique relentlessly in randori, to the exclusion of other techniques while you are perfecting this one. Begin with easier opponents and work your way up to more experienced fighters.

    6. Develop several setups and combinations (renraku-waza) that end with this technique, for example, ouchi-gari to uchi-mata, or sasae-tsurikomi-ashi to uchi-mata, etc.

    7. Develop the stamina and endurance to attack relentlessly for 5 minutes in a match. Keep in mind that endurance in judo is a combination of both aerobic and anaerobic capacity.

    8. Develop the physical strength equal to other competitors in your age and weight division; this includes arms, legs and core.



    And there you have it! Within a few months you will become a superior athlete, with a superior technique, that will come reflexively in competition. The more you make the conscious effort to attack with this technique, the sooner it will come automatically in randori and shiai.



    If this sounds simplistic, it is. But if you are not willing to follow this advice, then you will fail at the higher levels of competition. Why you may ask? Because the other serious competitors are already doing this, therefore you need to be doing more than them. So train hard, train often, train smart, and listen to your coach.

    END
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    sodo

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by sodo on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:43 am

    a VERY simplistic approach Shocked

    I assume nobody is supposed to take it seriously

    atb
    sodo lite


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    Yaburi

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by Yaburi on Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:01 am

    As JudoRatt suggests, responses from anonymous individuals should be taken with a grain of salt
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    JudoMojo

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by JudoMojo on Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:11 am

    I think I am still at stage 1...
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    sodo

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by sodo on Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:14 am

    Yaburi wrote:As JudoRatt suggests, responses from anonymous individuals should be taken with a grain of salt

    and Yaburi is of course your real name Very Happy
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    nomoremondays

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by nomoremondays on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:18 am

    Yaburi wrote:
    And there you have it! Within a few months you will become a superior athlete, with a superior technique, that will come reflexively in competition.

    I feel like quite a dullard Sad

    Hanon

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by Hanon on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:41 am

    There is the theory then the practice. The problem is so often the gap between the two. Time is a major factor and few situations in judo are black and white. Judo is as complex as the individual that practices it, literally.

    I would have to write though I can see where the author is coming from I find his essay rather a generalisation and doesn't take into account character and ones natural skill set etc etc...Such a subject is a book.

    Put bluntly it is rather simplistic. That is not always a bad thing though? Or is it?

    Mike
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by Ricebale on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:56 am

    Dude, stop suggesting that repetition, specificity and practice makes for better Judo, then outlining a plan to enable that. Are you forgetting that Judo is about practicing etiquette, standardising technique and the next grading criteria? Cool
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    Yaburi

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by Yaburi on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:09 am

    We are discussing building one technique for competition to the point where it can be done automatically. The key here is to first make the decision that you want to have a winning technique, and then to do something about it. The average recreational judoka trains twice a week for about an hour and a half -- total of 100 hours (+/-) per year. A high performance (elite) competitor trains 500-750 hours per year. So if your goal is to make it on the national or international stage, then you have to commit to the training. That begins one technique at a time until you have a family of competition waza that work for you; and there is no substitute for well structured repetition.


    Last edited by Yaburi on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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    Okazi

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by Okazi on Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:46 pm

    sodo lite wrote:a VERY simplistic approach Shocked

    I assume nobody is supposed to take it seriously

    atb
    sodo lite

    Hanon wrote:There is the theory then the practice. The problem is so often the gap between the two. Time is a major factor and few situations in judo are black and white. Judo is as complex as the individual that practices it, literally.

    I would have to write though I can see where the author is coming from I find his essay rather a generalisation and doesn't take into account character and ones natural skill set etc etc...Such a subject is a book.

    Put bluntly it is rather simplistic. That is not always a bad thing though? Or is it?

    Mike

    I think that a decent amount of people will benefit from Yaburi's response...

    So what is required to develop high proficiency in a technique? Does one have to take it one step at a time? If so, what are these steps? Or, does it just happen magically? If so, how long does it generally take for the magic to materialize? We can now begin the real work of adding some quality and quantity to this forum.
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    sodo

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by sodo on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:57 pm

    Hi Okazi,
    I think that a decent amount of people will benefit from Yaburi's
    response...
    Who? How?
    Maybe those who take it as a motivation to train harder, which would of course
    do us all good but unfortunately the reality of life is that this enthusiasm is
    usually very short lived No

    So what is required to develop high proficiency in a technique? Does one
    have to take it one step at a time? If so, what are these steps? Or, does it
    just happen magically? If so, how long does it generally take for the magic to
    materialize? We can now begin the real work of adding some quality and quantity
    to this forum.


    I can see
    the appeal of Marks Ideas, that one technique that will turn a judoka into a world
    champion if he just trains hard enough, inexperienced ambitious young judoka
    will just love the idea that they are guaranteed to win if they just put in
    more mat time than their opponents and work on their “silver bullet”.

    Apart
    from the philosophical question as to whether they are actually improving or
    learning judo by concentrating on just one aspect or technique, which I will
    leave for the more philosophical judoka to discuss Arrow. The whole basic idea is too
    simplistic and has too many flaws to actually lead to the desired long term
    results.



    It is somehow
    reasurring for ambitious young judoka to believe that they only need to learn that
    one technique and just train this technique more than your competitors train in
    total, become stronger, fitter and faster and hey presto you are guaranteed a
    win, all this it is a lot easier than trying to master the Gokyo and training
    to become a better all round judoka. cheers


    Marks
    theory may work well at regional level where the opponents are recreational
    judoka training once or twice a week and have other important things in their
    lives besides judo, a free, young judoka with no other commitments can easily
    put in the training required to beat his peers but once the judoka moves up to
    national/international level it is a completely different ball game. All the
    other players are just as dedicated, they too are putting in 40-60 hours a week
    and believe me they are not just training one technique, they have a small
    arsenal of techniques, they are training competition strategy, their coaches
    are analysing the competition and working out ways to stop and counter that one
    technique that our young judoka is so proud of.

    The chances that a judoka can
    make it in top level competition with just one technique is a fallacy that is
    sometimes even pushed by high grade judoka that should know better, Ask Rhadi J he is famous for his Marote Gari and other
    take downs and it surprises a lot of people to know that he also has a
    devastating Uchi Mata (among others).





    One of the major
    variables that we have not even mentioned above is natural talent, any judoka
    will improve with more time and dedicated training but no matter how long, hard
    and dedicated the judoka will never make up for raw talent or better strategy.





    @ Ricebale,
    There was
    me trying to be nice, friendly and politically correct then you come along and
    p/ßß me off with your attempts to reignite the BS that was rife on JF by making
    snarky inaccurate comments based on the paranoid insecurities and inferiority
    that plagued most of the “grapplers” on JF. tongue Very Happy Very Happy Twisted Evil


    The old
    sodo would have told you to shove your comments where the sun don’t shine but
    since I have been reborn as the enlightened ever friendly sodo lite I will just
    blow you a kiss and wish you well Embarassed Razz





    Atb





    Sodo lite
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by Ricebale on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:08 pm

    xx not snarky mate, relax, just poking fun at the author btw not you Very Happy
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    sodo

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by sodo on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:55 pm

    Ricebale wrote:xx not snarky mate, relax, just poking fun at the author btw not you Very Happy

    After studying Zen on the internet over Christmas I have found the true path to enlightenment and am now deeply upset that a serious judoka would abuse this new virgin forum for "just poking fun at the author" affraid

    I do realise that being so far "down under", so far from civilisation and in the constant company of northern Europes undesireables you will have had little chance in the past to communicate and interact with a cultured society but please think of this as your big chance What a Face
    atb

    sodo lite
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by Ricebale on Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:03 am

    Please excuse us colonials sir, it's the heat.

    On topic of the article it is saying that to develop good judo one must do the above, which by implication is suggesting that to otherwise will not produce good judo, these other things include protocol, grading, ritual etc. the article further implies that Judo itself is not doing those things and perhaps needs reminder.

    My obtuse observation that repetition if technique etc was the secret yet unknown key was a social hiccup being in the Australian ironic and laconic humour is somewhat lost in the written medium, or perhaps my comedic timing and thrust misfired.

    In short I found the article a straight forward preface to what may be an outline for a high performance athlete who makes an appearance at a local club and needs specific guidance, however I feel there would need to be a great increase in the physicality of a general public member before such a program of 2 month improvement could be contemplated IMO.

    Cheers
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    sodo

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by sodo on Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:21 am

    Ricebale wrote:Please excuse us colonials sir, it's the heat.

    On
    topic of the article it is saying that to develop good judo one must do
    the above, which by implication is suggesting that to otherwise will
    not produce good judo, these other things include protocol, grading,
    ritual etc. the article further implies that Judo itself is not doing
    those things and perhaps needs reminder.

    My obtuse observation
    that repetition if technique etc was the secret yet unknown key was a
    social hiccup being in the Australian ironic and laconic humour is
    somewhat lost in the written medium, or perhaps my comedic timing and
    thrust misfired.

    In short I found the article a straight forward
    preface to what may be an outline for a high performance athlete who
    makes an appearance at a local club and needs specific guidance, however
    I feel there would need to be a great increase in the physicality of a
    general public member before such a program of 2 month improvement could
    be contemplated IMO.

    Cheers

    Erhmmmmmmmmmmm! Unfortunately I am not fluent in the Australian
    language, my only experience being a brief encouter with a young
    Australian lady in a London pub who was trying out her seduction
    techniques on me, which although very basic but very effective IFRC
    she said "Oi mate, wanna f**k?" Embarassed after that we did not talk much scratch

    So from my limited linguistic abilities I seem to have deciphered that your post means that we agree Very Happy
    I think confused

    atb

    sodo lite


    Last edited by sodo lite on Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:02 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Creamy creamy baileys

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by Creamy creamy baileys on Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:08 am

    It's kind of torturous to type on iPhone, so please allow me to use bullet points to play devils advocate

    •Is one technique really ever just one technique? Or can that technique confer ability in related techniques?
    • Is the actual chosen technique "the thing" or are the multitude of things that need to happen (debana, reading your opponent etc) ultimately more important?
    • Couldnt the argument be made that by focusing on 1 or 2 techniques, more time could be spent on those 1001 undefinable things that make a throw work?
    • Isn't the Gokyo intact an attempt to identify 67 odd experiences? Could those experiences be replicated by say 3,4 or 5 key techniques? And if yes, why not 1 or 2?
    • "The ultimate sophistication is simplicity"
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    sodo

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by sodo on Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:35 am

    It's kind of torturous to type on iPhone, s
    Don't expect sympathy from me, it's your own fault for being so flash tongue

    o please allow me to use bullet points to play devils advocate
    OK Twisted Evil

    •Is one technique really ever just one technique? Or can that technique confer ability in related techniques?
    That is good point, it would probably be more effective to train one type of throw f.e. Koshi Waza instead of one specific throw f.e. Harai Goshi. The advantages are obvious.

    Is the actual chosen technique "the thing" or are the multitude of
    things that need to happen (debana, reading your opponent etc)
    ultimately more important?
    Exactly
    • Couldnt the argument be made that by
    focusing on 1 or 2 techniques, more time could be spent on those 1001
    undefinable things that make a throw work?
    The problem is you would only be working on the things that make that throw work Neutral

    • Isn't the Gokyo intact
    an attempt to identify 67 odd experiences? Could those experiences be
    replicated by say 3,4 or 5 key techniques? And if yes, why not 1 or 2?

    You more or less said it yourself, Kano already reduced the infinite no of throws to a definitive 67 techniques. addmittedly his aims where not to win in competition but to build a pedological system but unless you study all 67 techniques how do you know which techniques are suitable for your competition arsenal.

    • "The ultimate sophistication is simplicity"
    KISS

    atb

    sodo lite
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    Yaburi

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by Yaburi on Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:47 am

    It is fairly obvious that some individuals missed the premise of the the article. Read the first line: "Ever wonder how champions such as Takamasa Anai or Tokuzo Takahashi, from LA Tenri Dojo, could run a ten-man slaughter line using only one or two techniques?" (Both videos available on youtube). The points given in the article are based on first-hand interviews with Takamasa and numerous other elite athletes. They all agree that a winning technique is developed through uchikomi, nagekomi, randori with compliant and then progressively tougher partners; all supplemented with becoming a superior, physically fit athlete. That technique is then added to their "family of tokui waza" along with a dozen setups, (usually ashi waza), combinations (renraku waza), and counters (kaeshi waza). The article also clearly states that this is a simplified model for developing a technique; obviously leaving it to the intelligent athlete and progressive coach to build in all the other moving parts.
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    BillC

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by BillC on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:24 am

    Yaburi wrote:It is fairly obvious that some individuals missed the premise of the the article. Read the first line: "Ever wonder how champions such as Takamasa Anai or Tokuzo Takahashi, from LA Tenri Dojo, could run a ten-man slaughter line using only one or two techniques?" (Both videos available on youtube). The points given in the article are based on first-hand interviews with Takamasa and numerous other elite athletes. They all agree that a winning technique is developed through uchikomi, nagekomi, randori with compliant and then progressively tougher partners; all supplemented with becoming a superior, physically fit athlete. That technique is then added to their "family of tokui waza" along with a dozen setups, (usually ashi waza), combinations (renraku waza), and counters (kaeshi waza). The article also clearly states that this is a simplified model for developing a technique; obviously leaving it to the intelligent athlete and progressive coach to build in all the other moving parts.

    Are you saying that is ALL it takes to be able to run a ten man slaughter line of locals? Not taking anything away from these Tenri guys at all, but they were BORN who they are, two examples out of literally thousands in their system, and bring a host of other factors foremost of which is a certain temperament ... in my experience, observation and opinion.
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    nomoremondays

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by nomoremondays on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:30 am

    Yaburi wrote:It is fairly obvious that some individuals missed the premise of the the article. Read the first line: "Ever wonder how champions such as Takamasa Anai or Tokuzo Takahashi, from LA Tenri Dojo, could run a ten-man slaughter line using only one or two techniques?" (Both videos available on youtube).

    In the one video I remember seeing of Anai taking a 10 man slaughter line he did not use only one or two techniques. He used a variety of throws against his opponent. In fact it was not until the 6th or 7th guy I think that he 'repeated himself'. I think this was him in the USA. Is there a different video?
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    nomoremondays

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by nomoremondays on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:44 am

    nomoremondays wrote:
    Yaburi wrote:It is fairly obvious that some individuals missed the premise of the the article. Read the first line: "Ever wonder how champions such as Takamasa Anai or Tokuzo Takahashi, from LA Tenri Dojo, could run a ten-man slaughter line using only one or two techniques?" (Both videos available on youtube).

    In the one video I remember seeing of Anai taking a 10 man slaughter line he did not use only one or two techniques. He used a variety of throws against his opponent. In fact it was not until the 6th or 7th guy I think that he 'repeated himself'. I think this was him in the USA. Is there a different video?

    oops I was wrong. In this video he repeated the 8th throw! He got, in order, osoto,uchimata,tai otoshi,morote seoi,ouchi gari,uchimata sukashi,sode,ouchi gari,ouchi gaeshi and osoto.

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    Creamy creamy baileys

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by Creamy creamy baileys on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:19 pm

    Here's a thought experiment for you:

    Could you take one technique - any one technique - and use it in place of *all* the techniques of NNK? Same set ups, same attacks by uke. You must respond with some variation of technique X.

    If that's too mentally restrictive, what about just two techniques?

    Bear in mind, NNK was designed as a teaching tool. Ie: in this kind of scenario, do this. IOW, the moment of action (rather then the technique per se) is the important thing (IMO).


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    Davaro

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by Davaro on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:13 pm

    Creamy creamy baileys wrote:Here's a thought experiment for you:

    Could you take one technique - any one technique - and use it in place of *all* the techniques of NNK? Same set ups, same attacks by uke. You must respond with some variation of technique X.

    If that's too mentally restrictive, what about just two techniques?

    Bear in mind, NNK was designed as a teaching tool. Ie: in this kind of scenario, do this. IOW, the moment of action (rather then the technique per se) is the important thing (IMO).





    I think the article was intended to assist in developing the young competitor in shiai at a local level, possibly regional.

    Whilst it may not, in my humble opinion be enough to allow same youngster to go on and win the Olympics, it will definately give him the edge over others who perhaps dont train as much etc. Notwithstanding his own physical attributes and talent. It may even just be enough to give him confidence and thus may allow him to develope his own arsenal and thereafter he may indeed go on to great things.cheers

    You allude to Nage-no-kata (it is a randori-no kata...) and your comments have merit.

    However, should uke strike to the head of tori in a shiai, he would not need to do any technique as uki would receive a very prompt Hansoku... Laughing


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    sodo

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by sodo on Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:06 pm

    Hi Davaro,


    I think the article was intended to assist in developing the young competitor in shiai at a local level, possibly regional.

    Possibly, the big problem is you sacrifice long time gain for short term success (If you measure success in winning competitions).

    If you main goal is winning medals no matter what then you can teach a raw beinner in a very short time how to win, simply teach him a competition technique that the other beginners do not yet know and have no defence against. The young judoka wilöl clean up at all the local novice events untill the other judoka have advanced enough and have learnt to bölock and counter. Then the young competition judoka starts lo lose and lose badly which for most competitive personalities is hard to take and more often than not leads to them giving up judo altogether.

    This is vicious cycle that I have seen repeated dozens if not hundreds of times.

    The story in the op of being thrown dozens of times in radori with Tai Otoshi can be interpreted in many ways f.e.

    I/ as Mark believes Tori's Tai Otoshi is so awesome that he has and needs no other throw.

    but it could equally mean

    II/ Uke is making a fundemental error that is just begging to be exploited with Tia Otoshi.

    III/ It is Tuesday night which is the night that Tori practices Tai Otoshi, on Wednesday he hammers everybody with Uchi Mata.

    Think about it Shocked

    atb

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    Ricebale

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    Re: Developing a Winning Technique

    Post by Ricebale on Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:29 pm

    sodo lite wrote:Hi Davaro,


    I think the article was intended to assist in developing the young competitor in shiai at a local level, possibly regional.

    Possibly, the big problem is you sacrifice long time gain for short term success (If you measure success in winning competitions).

    If you main goal is winning medals no matter what then you can teach a raw beinner in a very short time how to win, simply teach him a competition technique that the other beginners do not yet know and have no defence against. The young judoka wilöl clean up at all the local novice events untill the other judoka have advanced enough and have learnt to bölock and counter. Then the young competition judoka starts lo lose and lose badly which for most competitive personalities is hard to take and more often than not leads to them giving up judo altogether.

    This is vicious cycle that I have seen repeated dozens if not hundreds of times.

    sodo lite

    I call this "Osoto" fever, stunning throw at first comps, then fails once opponents learn balance

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