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    how to uchi mata?

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    jae kim

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    how to uchi mata?

    Post by jae kim on Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:18 pm

    i've been training judo for 1 month, i can't perform uchi mata so guys help with tutorials or tips. help is appreciated Smile
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: how to uchi mata?

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:16 am

    jae kim wrote:i've been training judo for 1 month, i can't perform uchi mata so guys help with tutorials or tips. help is appreciated Smile

    Uchi-mata in terms of coordination and motor skills is a difficult throw. There is no way that you are going to be able to perform it more or less properly with your limited experience. It will take you at least till you become a 2nd or 1st kyû before it will start looking like anything. Sorry, nature of the beast.

    It's a bit the same as starting violin lessons and asking your teacher after 1 month if he/she could teach you how to play the Tchaikovsky violin concerto like David Oistrakh ...


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    jae kim

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    Re: how to uchi mata?

    Post by jae kim on Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:09 am

    thanks Smile
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    judoratt

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    Re: how to uchi mata?

    Post by judoratt on Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:39 am

    CK is correct, Uchimata is a very difficult throw. The biggest mistake that I see with beginers learning uchimata is that they lead with the attackking leg, this would be the right leg for a righty. The secret is to lead with the planting foot "left"and getting upper body contact before using the attacking leg that does very little work. Btw you need a quality instructor to learn this no one should try to learn judo from the internet.
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    Ryvai

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    Re: how to uchi mata?

    Post by Ryvai on Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:29 pm

    First off Jae Kim, as CK pointed out, Uchi-mata is a highly technical throw and many black belts I know still struggle with it. It's perfectly normal to get frustrated, but dont worry, you'll "know" when you've got it right, the feeling of performing Uchi-mata correctly for the first time is of overwhelming satisfaction Smile

    However, my tips for learning basic uchimata;

    • Look at the videos by Hiroshi Katanishi-sensei on youtube (link below) and try to grab a few details from there.
    • Uchi-mata is classified as ashi-waza but as Daigo-sensei points out in his book, it does involve the hip, so do not be afraid of hip contact.
    • Do NOT learn uchi-mata with grips other than standard kumi-kata at first, e.g. the back, under the arm, over the shoulder etc. Learn it the proper way with lapel grip from the beginning, then later you can modify it. This is essential to understand the tsurikomi-action. It might seem easier with a grip on the back etc. but you will not learn the proper dynamics of the throw, so it's somewhat cheating yourself.
    • Find your distance. If your opponents are much taller than you, not all uchi-mata will work without careful adjustments (taka-uchimata will ouch!). Experiment with your entry and make sure you place uke is proper kuzushi, tipping slightly forward. When I was taught Uchi-mata at the Kodokan as a green belt I was surprised at the distance the sensei' wanted me to have before fitting in (tsukuri).
    • There are a lot of tandoku-renshu (solo exercises) you can perform to make life easier while learning uchi-mata. Personally I've practiced a lot the way Katanishi-sensei trains balance for uchi-mata as seen in the video below. He explains the importance of the arms while doing the throw for proper balance, you can practice the correct angles of the arms by holding a belt between you hands at the correct distance. Much of the power of the throw comes from a strong lower back and buttocks Wink


    Uchi-mata by Katanishi-sensei


    A tandoku-renshu balance exercise for Uchi-mata (starts aprox. 6:40)


    Hope that helps, good luck with your training! Smile
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    Jihef

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    Re: how to uchi mata?

    Post by Jihef on Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:39 am

    judoratt wrote:Btw you need a quality instructor to learn this no one should try to learn judo from the internet.
    Love this one.  Very Happy 
    It should actually be the motto of this cyber dojo.


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    medo

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    Re: how to uchi mata?

    Post by medo on Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:13 am

    Ryvai wrote:First off Jae Kim, as CK pointed out, Uchi-mata is a highly technical throw and many black belts I know still struggle with it. It's perfectly normal to get frustrated, but dont worry, you'll "know" when you've got it right, the feeling of performing Uchi-mata correctly for the first time is of overwhelming satisfaction Smile

    However, my tips for learning basic uchimata;

    • Look at the videos by Hiroshi Katanishi-sensei on youtube (link below) and try to grab a few details from there.
    • Uchi-mata is classified as ashi-waza but as Daigo-sensei points out in his book, it does involve the hip, so do not be afraid of hip contact.
    • Do NOT learn uchi-mata with grips other than standard kumi-kata at first, e.g. the back, under the arm, over the shoulder etc. Learn it the proper way with lapel grip from the beginning, then later you can modify it. This is essential to understand the tsurikomi-action. It might seem easier with a grip on the back etc. but you will not learn the proper dynamics of the throw, so it's somewhat cheating yourself.
    • Find your distance. If your opponents are much taller than you, not all uchi-mata will work without careful adjustments (taka-uchimata will ouch!). Experiment with your entry and make sure you place uke is proper kuzushi, tipping slightly forward. When I was taught Uchi-mata at the Kodokan as a green belt I was surprised at the distance the sensei' wanted me to have before fitting in (tsukuri).
    • There are a lot of tandoku-renshu (solo exercises) you can perform to make life easier while learning uchi-mata. Personally I've practiced a lot the way Katanishi-sensei trains balance for uchi-mata as seen in the video below. He explains the importance of the arms while doing the throw for proper balance, you can practice the correct angles of the arms by holding a belt between you hands at the correct distance. Much of the power of the throw comes from a strong lower back and buttocks Wink


    Uchi-mata by Katanishi-sensei


    A tandoku-renshu balance exercise for Uchi-mata (starts aprox. 6:40)


    Hope that helps, good luck with your training! Smile

    Ryvai. Just looked at your profile do you think you should be giving advice to a novice of 1 month on Uchimata when you state you are a 2nd kyu grade, please don't take this wrong your research which will aid your own knowledge is good, but unless you have thousands of hrs mat time training under good sensei I think it wise just to hold back a little......
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    Ryvai

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    Re: how to uchi mata?

    Post by Ryvai on Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:56 pm

    medo wrote:Ryvai. Just looked at your profile do you think you should be giving advice to a novice of 1 month on Uchimata when you state you are a 2nd kyu grade, please don't take this wrong your research which will aid your own knowledge is good, but unless you have thousands of hrs mat time training under good sensei I think it wise just to hold back a little......

    Instead, ask yourself the question; would this advice be any less true had you read hachidan in my profile? The belt is there to hold up your pants. Who said I have not had 1000 hours on the mat because I am 2.kyu Judoka? Dont be so judgmental medo, you are on the internet, hehe Smile

    medo

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    Re: how to uchi mata?

    Post by medo on Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:28 pm

    Ryvai wrote:
    medo wrote:Ryvai. Just looked at your profile do you think you should be giving advice to a novice of 1 month on Uchimata when you state you are a 2nd kyu grade, please don't take this wrong your research which will aid your own knowledge is good, but unless you have thousands of hrs mat time training under good sensei I think it wise just to hold back a little......

    Instead, ask yourself the question; would this advice be any less true had you read hachidan in my profile? The belt is there to hold up your pants. Who said I have not had 1000 hours on the mat because I am 2.kyu Judoka? Dont be so judgmental medo, you are on the internet, hehe Smile

    Ummm!!! OK not being judgemental just realistic a 2kyu grade with the experience of a hachidan!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Ryvai

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    Re: how to uchi mata?

    Post by Ryvai on Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:52 pm

    medo wrote:Ummm!!! OK not being judgemental just realistic a 2kyu grade with the experience of a hachidan!!!!!!!!!!!  

    Calm down medo, I never said I was hachidan, hehe. Unfortunately you don't gain belts by your knowledge of the force (pun intended), at least not in my club, but instead they give belts based on 'years' spent training, and not hours spent on the mat (how many "hours" is a year anyway?). Right now I have about 900 hours of Judo mat time and 1500 hours of greco-roman wrestling, which is not a whole lot, but sufficient i'd say, to give advice on uchi-mata to a novice. But you are right, the more experienced sensei in here are probably more suited to give advice Smile

    Hanon

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    Re: how to uchi mata?

    Post by Hanon on Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:02 am

    Ryvai wrote:
    medo wrote:Ummm!!! OK not being judgemental just realistic a 2kyu grade with the experience of a hachidan!!!!!!!!!!!  

    Calm down medo, I never said I was hachidan, hehe. Unfortunately you don't gain belts by your knowledge of the force (pun intended), at least not in my club, but instead they give belts based on 'years' spent training, and not hours spent on the mat (how many "hours" is a year anyway?). Right now I have about 900 hours of Judo mat time and 1500 hours of greco-roman wrestling, which is not a whole lot, but sufficient i'd say, to give advice on uchi-mata to a novice. But you are right, the more experienced sensei in here are probably more suited to give advice Smile

    The fact that you are giving detailed advice to a novice on uchi mata shows the level of your own understanding. As you write its nothing to do with rank. By your actions you show your teaching limitations and understanding of judo.

    I am sure you are genuine with your desire to help. It IS vital though that appropriate information be passed here to avoid accident or a pupil just getting frustrated as he or she cannot perform a technique as THEY think they should.

    As you correctly state this is the net so we are all judged and assessed by what we write. Unfortunately on this occasion you have shot yourself in the foot.

    To the OP, practice O goshi. Uki goshi and koshi guruma. Move onto harai goshi then tsuri komi goshi. Be patient with yourself and listen to your sensei.

    Kind regards to one and all.

    Mike


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    overthehill

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    Re: how to uchi mata?

    Post by overthehill on Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:28 pm

    ^^ hanon, having said that, would you care to objectively critique what ryvai wrote and tell us where he is incorrect?

    ryvai, dont take it personally, and keep contributing. there are people on this board who appreciate your input.
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    Stacey

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    Re: how to uchi mata?

    Post by Stacey on Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:32 am

    the ultimate criticism is that Rival is trying to teach uchi mata to somebody with 1 month experience, not knowing a thing other than the guy's claiming 1 month of experience. The proper response is, "talk with your sensei"

    The advice Rival gives is commensurate with good, basic throwing principles for all throws. For me, uchi mata clicked into place after studying it in nage no kata. Like many here, I probably learned it as part of a sequence - o goshi, harai gosh, hane, and then uchi mata, so that the relationship between those basic throws comes together.

    But really, the problem is that Rival is trying to internet teach uchi mata to somebody with 1 month experience, and who can't really articulate the problems he's having with the throw (other than he's probably not supposed to be doing that particular throw yet).

    Hanon

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    Re: how to uchi mata?

    Post by Hanon on Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:08 am

    overthehill wrote:^^ hanon, having said that, would you care to objectively critique what ryvai wrote and tell us where he is incorrect?

    ryvai, dont take it personally, and keep contributing. there are people on this board who appreciate your input.

    Hi, thanks for the question.

    Stacey has answered it. Very Happy 

    The details or flesh on the bones;

    We are bipods. We have been taught from day one how to stand on TWO legs and that falling over is a negative thing for us to do, agreed?

    So, when we start to learn judo the little control we have is over our own body while standing on TWO legs, this is our comfort zone and understandably so.
    Now when we have a partner to work with it complicates things when we try at first to throw. First off, we have to maintain control over our own body as well as that of our partner. To this end it is wise and safe to teach tori a throw where both tori's legs are on the floor. This way tori can better maintain his own bodily control while trying to control 'safely' the body of his uke, Agreed?

    O goshi is a prime koshi waza because of its basics. When we have some confidence in ogoshi we can perhaps move onto Uke goshi in terms of koshi waza or even ippon seoinage in terms of te waza, both waza require tori to have both his feet on the floor. They are less challenging at the beginner stage.

    Add to this the need for Westerners to learn to keep a straight back AND BEND THEIR KNEES and the primary set of waza can be seen as safe for both tori AND UKE.

    Moving on to tsuri komi goshi is always a wise idea before teaching the one legged waza. It teaches tsuri and komi.  Smile 

    Harai goshi is perhaps the wisest choice of the one legged koshi waza because it uses the koshi and the action leg of tori, the Right one, is outside the legs of uke, thus in failure tori will not get his action leg caught between the legs of uke and both obtain injury?

    Uchimata is a very good, powerful, effective waza. It has numerous henka to it and numerous entries, combinations and counters. The problem with learning uchimata at an inappropriate time in ones apprenticeship is failure is built into this waza without tori first being able to control his own body while throwing, control the body of an uke, understands the use of the koshi and hara, understand debana, tsukuri, kuzushi and above all safety.

    Uchimata is a vital waza in the judo gokyo either to form the basis of ones own repertoire or to learn how to counter it.

    The education of judo begins with the basics, as in all things. Appropriate timing of when to teach a given pupil a given throw can only really be assessed by ones sensei. There are, of course, general rules of thumb and uchimata is not the wisest throw to teach a novice who has the idea of staying in judo, both for his sake and the sake of his uke.

    There is no malice whatsoever between me and Ryvai, I said in my post he does his best to help and support his fellow members here. On this one occasion I fear he has dug himself into a small hole though. We all do that on times. For the sake of the OP it is wise to counter the advice of Ryvai to ensure the OP's safety and that of his uke.
    We all appreciate the input of Ryvai.

    Hope this helps a little more?

    Kindest regards,

    Mike


    Last edited by Hanon on Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total


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    DougNZ

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    Re: how to uchi mata?

    Post by DougNZ on Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:45 am

    ^ This is why we are so lucky to have you visit, Hanon-sensei. Words of wisdom and practical experience, pure and simple.

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