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    Clarification of word of encouragement in Japanese

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    forgeron judo

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    Clarification of word of encouragement in Japanese

    Post by forgeron judo on Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:13 am

    a discussion amongst peers revealed different expressions used to stimulate and encourage players. The most frequent words or expressions used are:
    OSU- for press forward
    Oushi- to carry on the practice as thought
    OOzuru- to display your savoir faire or comply
    OOsen- to accept the challenge given by the instructor.
    Hai- to recognize that you understand and that you will comply
    others are using abbreviations such as oossss, or osu short of ohayo Gozaimas.

    Can a linguist bring out the right interpretation of meaning within the judo context?
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    Neil G

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    Re: Clarification of word of encouragement in Japanese

    Post by Neil G on Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:07 am

    forgeron judo wrote:
    others are using abbreviations such as oossss, or osu short of ohayo Gozaimas. 
    "Ohayo gozaimasu" means "good morning", politely. Not sure if you would hear it as "osu", I thought that was a karate thing anyway.
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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Clarification of word of encouragement in Japanese

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:34 am

    I have not heard much of any of that in 32 years of Judo. "osu" is used in karate, or kind of an "ooos".

    I usually just use english.


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    BillC

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    Re: Clarification of word of encouragement in Japanese

    Post by BillC on Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:52 am

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:I have not heard much of any of that in 32 years of Judo. "osu" is used in karate, or kind of an "ooos".

    I usually just use english.

    Nah ... we hear it a lot lately from guys ported over from BJJ. Heard once that it's an abbreviated form of "onegaishimasu" but I have never checked that out. Used to hear "yosh!" a lot ... someone once told me he could tell how long someone had been in judo by their use of that term.

    I suppose if you are choking someone out you could shout "oos" out as an abbreviated "oyasuminasai!"



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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Clarification of word of encouragement in Japanese

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:53 am

    forgeron judo wrote:a discussion amongst peers revealed different expressions used to stimulate and encourage players. The most frequent words or expressions used are:
    OSU- for press forward
    Oushi- to carry on the practice as thought
    OOzuru- to display your savoir faire or comply
    OOsen- to accept the challenge given by the instructor.
    Hai- to recognize that you understand and that you will comply
    others are using abbreviations such as oossss, or osu short of ohayo Gozaimas.

    Can a linguist bring out the right interpretation of meaning within the judo context?  

    Hi, Chinese/Japanese linguist, check, jûdôka with solid Japan experience, check, bank account details provided, check.

    The "oush"-like sound that is heard often at the start of Japanese randori, and sometimes during is none of the above speculations, but is a contraction of "onegai shimasu" お願いします. It is NOT an abbreviation of Ohayô gozaimasu, which doesn't make sense, as you would not continuously shout "good morning" to each other while doing randori in the afternoon or evening ...

    The second kanji comes from the verb "wagau" which means "to petition, to wish, to desire, to pray someone to". The preceding 'o' makes it honorific. And "shimasu" comes from the verb "suru" which means "to do". Putting all together in a bag and shaking it, leads to the expression "please". There really is no set explanation for it in jûdô, just as regarding bowing. What precisely is said with bowing ?  It's usually explained as a form of respect; you could say it is "to thank your opponent for practice", but people who hate each other and aren't in the habit of thanking others, bow too, so ...   During the randori, the "oush" probably doesn't literally translate as "please" anymore but has come to mean "C'mon", "let's go", although it does not literally mean that.

    By the way  御早う ohayô literally means "early", with "o" put in front as honorific, from there derived "good morning".

    "Gozaimasu" also is a word, which I have noticed virtually no one today seems to know anymore where it comes from". Well the reason is that most people now write it in hiragana. If they would still write it in kanji the meaning obviously would reveal itself, as it really is a conjugation of "go de aru", with "aru" meaning "to be" and "go" being the honorific.

    The "oush" is part of the Japanese dôjô sound. It's a very specific sound. It's not prsent at the Kôdôkan, but you can still hear it at the Meiji dôjô. When you walk outside on the street you can here it. It's the bouncing of the steel coil springs and tatami, mixed with the sounds of frequent ukemi and the sound of other jûdôka encouraging those who are going on. I have never heard that sound in any other country but Japan. It was present at our police academy in Kyôto too. It has some hypnotic effect in terms of pushing you, without ever being agressive.

    "Hai" is indeed sometimes heard during randori, but during specific sentences, like when you had a bad fall, or are gassed, and your younger or more stronger opponent gives you a couple of extra seconds to catch your breath or there is some uncertainty as to whether you have actually injured yourself, then often you should 'hai' as the green light that you are ready to go ahead.

    "Yoi" 好い (or "yoshi") comes from 好 which means 'good' but also 'ready'.

    When third parties encourage someone during a sports contest in Japan, they often shout: "ganbate", written 頑張って and which is the imperative of the verb ganbaru which means "to persevere", so it means "hold on", "go for it" !

    Japanese also has many "interjections" and onomatopoeia-like sounds that don't translate into proper words, and that are almost "verbalized" punctuations to emphasize something and add feeling or appreciation or rejection to a phrase.

    This knowledge mixed with kiai that may sound quite different depending on the individual leads to a variety of sounds that may be heard in Japanese dôjô, not all of them that would have an actual semantic meaning.

    When the Korean team come over, you may occasionally hear "koroshite" 殺して ...

    (for info regarding sounds in/from the soaplands, I defer to NBK-san for expertise ...)


    Last edited by Cichorei Kano on Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    forgeron judo

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    Re: Clarification of word of encouragement in Japanese

    Post by forgeron judo on Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:01 pm

    The contribution from all is appreciated. Merci pour votre soutien.
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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Clarification of word of encouragement in Japanese

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:13 am

    BillC wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:I have not heard much of any of that in 32 years of Judo. "osu" is used in karate, or kind of an "ooos".

    I usually just use english.

    Nah ... we hear it a lot lately from guys ported over from BJJ.  Heard once that it's an abbreviated form of "onegaishimasu" but I have never checked that out.  Used to hear "yosh!" a lot ... someone once told me he could tell how long someone had been in judo by their use of that term.

    I suppose if you are choking someone out you could shout "oos" out as an abbreviated "oyasuminasai!"


    Yosh or yoshi! I 've used, usually get confused looks especially when I'm reffing.

    I'm semi famous among my students for telling them "one more time", LOL, in English, though.

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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Clarification of word of encouragement in Japanese

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:17 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    forgeron judo wrote:a discussion amongst peers revealed different expressions used to stimulate and encourage players. The most frequent words or expressions used are:
    OSU- for press forward
    Oushi- to carry on the practice as thought
    OOzuru- to display your savoir faire or comply
    OOsen- to accept the challenge given by the instructor.
    Hai- to recognize that you understand and that you will comply
    others are using abbreviations such as oossss, or osu short of ohayo Gozaimas.

    Can a linguist bring out the right interpretation of meaning within the judo context?  

    Hi, Chinese/Japanese linguist, check, jûdôka with solid Japan experience, check, bank account details provided, check.

    The "oush"-like sound that is heard often at the start of Japanese randori, and sometimes during is none of the above speculations, but is a contraction of "onegai shimasu" お願いします. It is NOT an abbreviation of Ohayô gozaimasu, which doesn't make sense, as you would not continuously shout "good morning" to each other while doing randori in the afternoon or evening ...

    The second kanji comes from the verb "wagau" which means "to petition, to wish, to desire, to pray someone to". The preceding 'o' makes it honorific. And "shimasu" comes from the verb "suru" which means "to do". Putting all together in a bag and shaking it, leads to the expression "please". There really is no set explanation for it in jûdô, just as regarding bowing. What precisely is said with bowing ?  It's usually explained as a form of respect; you could say it is "to thank your opponent for practice", but people who hate each other and aren't in the habit of thanking others, bow too, so ...   During the randori, the "oush" probably doesn't literally translate as "please" anymore but has come to mean "C'mon", "let's go", although it does not literally mean that.

    By the way  御早う ohayô literally means "early", with "o" put in front as honorific, from there derived "good morning".

    "Gozaimasu" also is a word, which I have noticed virtually no one today seems to know anymore where it comes from". Well the reason is that most people now write it in hiragana. If they would still write it in kanji the meaning obviously would reveal itself, as it really is a conjugation of "go de aru", with "aru" meaning "to be" and "go" being the honorific.

    The "oush" is part of the Japanese dôjô sound. It's a very specific sound. It's not prsent at the Kôdôkan, but you can still hear it at the Meiji dôjô. When you walk outside on the street you can here it. It's the bouncing of the steel coil springs and tatami, mixed with the sounds of frequent ukemi and the sound of other jûdôka encouraging those who are going on. I have never heard that sound in any other country but Japan. It was present at our police academy in Kyôto too. It has some hypnotic effect in terms of pushing you, without ever being agressive.

    "Hai" is indeed sometimes heard during randori, but during specific sentences, like when you had a bad fall, or are gassed, and your younger or more stronger opponent gives you a couple of extra seconds to catch your breath or there is some uncertainty as to whether you have actually injured yourself, then often you should 'hai' as the green light that you are ready to go ahead.

    "Yoi" 好い (or "yoshi") comes from 好 which means 'good' but also 'ready'.

    When third parties encourage someone during a sports contest in Japan, they often shout: "ganbate", written 頑張って and which is the imperative of the verb ganbaru which means "to persevere", so it means "hold on", "go for it" !

    Japanese also has many "interjections" and onomatopoeia-like sounds that don't translate into proper words, and that are almost "verbalized" punctuations to emphasize something and add feeling or appreciation or rejection to a phrase.

    This knowledge mixed with kiai that may sound quite different depending on the individual leads to a variety of sounds that may be heard in Japanese dôjô, not all of them that would have an actual semantic meaning.

    When the Korean team come over, you may occasionally hear "koroshite" 殺して ...

    (for info regarding sounds in/from the soaplands, I defer to NBK-san for expertise ...)

    Ganbate I've heard before. Funnily, Spanish speaking (Castellano for your purists) judoka yell "combate", or at least I've heard them yell that as encouragement. Maybe it was "ganbate" ...
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    Neil G

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    Re: Clarification of word of encouragement in Japanese

    Post by Neil G on Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:07 am

    Onegai shimasu in the budo context means, essentially "please teach me".  We are about to train together, we will be teaching each other. The "masu" part refers to the future, ie what we are about to do.   Kendoka say it to each other as we bow before each practice session. We also say it during the group bow in.  Afterwards (individual practice or group bow out) we say "arigato gozaimashita", the "mashita" means the past, so thank you for the practice we just had.  We don't say either of those things, or anything else, in shiai.

    lucubrat

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    Ossu!

    Post by lucubrat on Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:54 am

    For a detailed discussion of the use of Ossu! in a Japanese karate dōjō, see this article.

    Ossu! Sporting masculinities in a Japanese karate dōjō
    Kris Chapman
    Pages 315-335 | Published online: 04 Jun 2010 Taylor and Francis
    Journal
    Japan Forum
    Volume 16, 2004 - Issue 2

    (Sorry, you'll have to Google Scholar it as as I can not yet post links).

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