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    Emanuele2

    Posts : 139
    Join date : 2013-01-21

    Name this throw

    Post by Emanuele2 on Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:19 am

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPXIPrVU5yo
    What technique is shown at 4:07?

    tafftaz

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by tafftaz on Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:12 am

    Sukui nage

    NittyRanks

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by NittyRanks on Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:36 am

    Really?

    BillC

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by BillC on Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:40 am

    Skilled entry into newaza?


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    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
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    Emanuele2

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by Emanuele2 on Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:21 am

    BillC wrote:Skilled entry into newaza?
    A such quick and powerful entry, doesn't grant newaza, it grants ippon.

    tafftaz

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by tafftaz on Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:57 am

    NittyRanks wrote:Really?

    Really

    tafftaz

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by tafftaz on Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:59 am

    Call it what you want.
    To me it is a hand assisted throw and as uke's legs were pulled/scooped up behind him and rolled over and I believe it falls into sukui nage territory.

    BillC

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by BillC on Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:00 am

    Emanuele2 wrote:
    BillC wrote:Skilled entry into newaza?
    A such quick and powerful entry, doesn't grant newaza, it grants ippon.

    Basically tall guy wrestles short guy to his hands and knees, short guy tries to bite tall guy's ankle, tall guy grabs short guy's leg and then flips him onto his back using strength. Yes, ippon as defined at the time. These days tall guy would be DQ'd, not sure about the short guy.

    In the long view of various rules sets ... it's just my opinion that if the rules weren't whacked the match should have continued on the floor. Short guy was not thrown in one continuous motion with control, speed and force. He was bested to be sure, but not killed in one blow.

    Em ... not picking an argument ... it's really just a matter of taste. What the referee announces is the score.

    I'd teach students to try to have the excellent presence of mind that the tall guy has, but not to practice winning by practicing this move over and over as tachiwaza.


    _________________
    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling

    tafftaz

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by tafftaz on Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:03 am

    What Bill said.

    Pointless exercise really as everyone will have a different take on whatever technique these sort of posts throw up.

    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:04 am

    Emanuele2 wrote:
    A such quick and powerful entry, doesn't grant newaza, it grants ippon.


    Here's a trove of inspiration ...


    http://judopedia.com/index.php/Shin-kokusai-shiaiwaza:_Classification_of_Innovative_International_Competition_Techniques

    Go wild !!  bom 


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    BillC

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by BillC on Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:08 am

    tafftaz wrote:Call it what you want.
    To me it is a hand assisted throw and as uke's legs were pulled/scooped up behind him and rolled over and I believe it falls into sukui nage territory.

    Maybe ...


    _________________
    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling

    Ricebale

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by Ricebale on Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:52 am

    It's a very common throw in other belt wrestling sports,  I'll try and find the exact name.

    I've got it in a Sambo book somewhere.

    Edit: my judo name for it would be ricebale throw off a belt grip

    DougNZ

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by DougNZ on Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:16 am

    Looks like a great way to wreck someone's neck ...

    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:46 am

    Ricebale wrote:It's a very common throw in other belt wrestling sports,  I'll try and find the exact name.

    I've got it in a Sambo book somewhere.

    Edit: my judo name for it would be ricebale throw off a belt grip

    Not rice bail type throw IMO.

    Muneta was barely in ne waza if at all. Today probably wouldn't be scored, but who knows?



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    Emanuele2

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by Emanuele2 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:01 am

    It seems also an obi tori ashi dori.

    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:28 am

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Ricebale wrote:It's a very common throw in other belt wrestling sports,  I'll try and find the exact name.

    I've got it in a Sambo book somewhere.

    Edit: my judo name for it would be ricebale throw off a belt grip

    Not  rice bail type throw IMO.

    Indeed not. It's a henka of hikkomi-gaeshi. Hikkomi-gaeshi exists in many different forms. Traditionally it is shown (for its migi form), right hand over the back at the belt, left hand under the uke's right armpit, left hand towards yourself, often grabbing your own lapel. Mikhaylin performs a hidari-version, and instead of going under the armpit of his opponent grabs his opponent's leg. This is one of the many hikkomi-gaeshi henka which Iatskevitch introduced me to in the 1980s. In those days these techniques were new and were creating havoc on the international scene with most opponents being caught by it. Some other international jûdôka, particularly in the light-weight categories adopted these techniques, but it was only when Iatskevitch caught me with it a couple of times during randori, that I realized how difficult they were to evade or block if also done by someone who was technical like he was.

    In the case of Mikhaylin, the throw would probably have been clearer if he would not have already turned during the throw. So, (hidari-)hikkomi-gaeshi.


    _________________


    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."

    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:01 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Ricebale wrote:It's a very common throw in other belt wrestling sports,  I'll try and find the exact name.

    I've got it in a Sambo book somewhere.

    Edit: my judo name for it would be ricebale throw off a belt grip

    Not  rice bail type throw IMO.

    Indeed not. It's a henka of hikkomi-gaeshi. Hikkomi-gaeshi exists in many different forms. Traditionally it is shown (for its migi form), right hand over the back at the belt, left hand under the uke's right armpit, left hand towards yourself, often grabbing your own lapel. Mikhaylin performs a hidari-version, and instead of going under the armpit of his opponent grabs his opponent's leg. This is one of the many hikkomi-gaeshi henka which Iatskevitch introduced me to in the 1980s. In those days these techniques were new and were creating havoc on the international scene with most opponents being caught by it. Some other international jûdôka, particularly in the light-weight categories adopted these techniques, but it was only when Iatskevitch caught me with it a couple of times during randori, that I realized how difficult they were to evade or block if also done by someone who was technical like he was.

    In the case of Mikhaylin, the throw would probably have been clearer if he would not have already turned during the throw. So, (hidari-)hikkomi-gaeshi.

    I remember the first time I saw a Hikkomi Gaeshi in the US. It was at a shiai at the USOTC, and a female judoka, whose name escapes me at the moment, did it. It was the version where tori takes an ippon seoinage type grip, hooks a foot inside the upper thigh, and falls backwards, not the belt grip (obi tori gaeshi) version).

    For the younger judoka, the rule back then (mid/late 80s) was that you had to have separation between uke and tori in such throws when uke hit the mat, or no score, only was skillful entry to ne waza.

    She used it effectively...I did have a Japanese judo sensei at the time so he was able to explain what it was to me via my hometown sensei. If I could remember her name....Ah! Grace Jividen, I think is it.

    Go to about 5:43 in this video...




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    303d

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    Re: Name this throw

    Post by 303d on Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:28 am

    Why is this just not tawara gaeshi (rice bag reversal)? It looks to me like thats what he was trying to do anyway and just grabbed the back of the leg in the process. It closer to that than anything else, who cares if he used the leg in the process.

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