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    GREAT CHAMPIONS ... CHAMPIONING THE NEW RULES

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    DrewFleming

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    Join date : 2014-02-27

    GREAT CHAMPIONS ... CHAMPIONING THE NEW RULES

    Post by DrewFleming on Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:08 am

    I would love to know what the opinion of the Judo world is to great champions now promoting the new (restrictive my term) rules in international judo.
    Can we believe these great competitors who won world titles, Olympic medals would have liked to compete under the new rules.

    Do you think they have sold out for $ or Euros.. personally I think its sad and I see them pushing the new rules and in some of the videos they are being treated like beginners.

    I personally think that Judo should only ban things that are dangerous. That any technique that bangs an opponent on the flat of his back, any technique that uses the gi to get an ippon should be allowed. If an opponent comes out on his hands and knees and beats you then its up to Judo to find away to defeat it.. Judo is a method of self defence built on scientific principles (with a Sporting side) sport Judo is not Judo...

    Personally Adams, who I think is a great competitor and Gamba who is also.. and both I have had the pleasure of training with are now not representing judo as it was developed by Kano and for that I am so disappointed in them.


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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Join date : 2012-12-28
    Location : Bonners Ferry, Idaho, USA

    Re: GREAT CHAMPIONS ... CHAMPIONING THE NEW RULES

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:29 am

    DrewFleming wrote:I would love to know what the opinion of the Judo world is to great champions now promoting the new (restrictive my term) rules in international judo.
    Can we believe these great competitors who won world titles, Olympic medals would have liked to compete under the new rules.

    Do you think they have sold out for $ or Euros.. personally I think its sad and I see them pushing the new rules and in some of the videos they are being treated like beginners.

    I personally think that Judo should only ban things that are dangerous. That any technique that bangs an opponent on the flat of his back, any technique that uses the gi to get an ippon should be allowed. If an opponent comes out on his hands and knees and beats you then its up to Judo to find away to defeat it.. Judo is a method of self defence built on scientific principles (with a Sporting side) sport Judo is not Judo...

    Personally Adams, who I think is a great competitor and Gamba who is also.. and both I have had the pleasure of training with are now not representing judo as it was developed by Kano and for that I am so disappointed in them.


    I think they are being realistic. Just as I am in not freaking out over new rules. Not that I approve or like all of them...

    Neil Adams, if you read what he writes (try his book "Tai Otoshi" published by Ippon Books, which I have been going over again over the past few days), advocates upright, attacking, judo.

    The situation had gotten so bad regarding use of tactical judo to win at all costs (use of grips/posture/"proper false attacks(diving at legs), etc.) that in my option something had to be done. Competitive Judo was getting uglier and uglier, less judo like in appearance (upright, attacking Judo as Mr. Adams likes and advocates) to the point it was not judo anymore, despite the ability to do ashi tori waza freely. I was watching some older video tapes of former students, and that sort of crap was filtering down to much lower levels of judo progressively. Which was a bad thing.

    I doubt seriously Kano would have been very happy with the state of Judo for a long time, perhaps especially with the leg diving when outgripped, bending over, athleticism uber alles win at costs attitude.





    So the IJF took action. Of course, the IJF was part of the problem, with the "monetization/professionalization" of judo causing the win at all costs attitude.

    Anyway


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    BillC

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    Re: GREAT CHAMPIONS ... CHAMPIONING THE NEW RULES

    Post by BillC on Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:24 am

    Ben, I am not expert on what Kano-shihan was thinking either. Perhaps some of that is preserved in the kata that he left us, but the rest filters down imperfectly by way of hearsay and oral myth.

    But what I have come to believe in summary, based on a little of what people who do know have shared with me, is that perhaps an Olympic sport is a poor fit for Kano jujutsu. Techniques and rules aside, both have fundamental principles that at times pull in opposite directions. I think perhaps waht we are seeing is an evolutionary resolution of those built-in conflicts.


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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Join date : 2012-12-28
    Location : Bonners Ferry, Idaho, USA

    Re: GREAT CHAMPIONS ... CHAMPIONING THE NEW RULES

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:13 am

    BillC wrote:Ben, I am not expert on what Kano-shihan was thinking either.  Perhaps some of that is preserved in the kata that he left us, but the rest filters down imperfectly by way of hearsay and oral myth.

    But what I have come to believe in summary, based on a little of what people who do know have shared with me, is that perhaps an Olympic sport is a poor fit for Kano jujutsu.  Techniques and rules aside, both have fundamental principles that at times pull in opposite directions.  I think perhaps what we are seeing is an evolutionary resolution of those built-in conflicts.

    I think that is reasonable for sure. The Olympics have ev(de)volved over time as well. Perhaps the fit was OK once upon a time...

    Whatever he was thinking, we have to think for ourselves now. Of that I believe Kano Shihan would approve...



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    hedgehogey

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    Re: GREAT CHAMPIONS ... CHAMPIONING THE NEW RULES

    Post by hedgehogey on Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:58 am

    athleticism uber alles


    The more restrictions you make, the more decisive you make athleticism. Gripfighting used to be important but not a prerequisite to throw. Now you must win the gripfight. And that means a whole lot more work on your upper body.

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