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    Judo and Water

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    Anatol

    Posts : 190
    Join date : 2014-01-20

    Judo and Water

    Post by Anatol on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:56 pm

    One principle in Judo for me is "Water".


    It has heavy weight, many forms (from ice to fog) and moves in waves and circles and has incredible power.

    Also the human body is mostly of water.


    Laozi 78 (translated by Feng & English)

    Under heaven nothing is more soft and yielding than water.
    Yet for attacking the solid and strong, nothing is better;
    It has no equal.
    The weak can overcome the strong;
    The supple can overcome the stiff.
    Under heaven everyone knows this,
    Yet no one puts it into practice.


    What do you think in terms of "Judo" and "Water"?


    Drink a lot of water so you do not get dehydrated? ;-)


    .



    Hanon

    Posts : 537
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Judo and Water

    Post by Hanon on Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:11 pm

    Anatol wrote:One principle in Judo for me is "Water".


    It has heavy weight, many forms (from ice to fog) and moves in waves and circles and has incredible power.

    Also the human body is mostly of water.


    Laozi 78 (translated by Feng & English)

    Under heaven nothing is more soft and yielding than water.
    Yet for attacking the solid and strong, nothing is better;
    It has no equal.
    The weak can overcome the strong;
    The supple can overcome the stiff.
    Under heaven everyone knows this,
    Yet no one puts it into practice.


    What do you think in terms of "Judo" and "Water"?


    Drink a lot of water so you do not get dehydrated?  ;-)


    .



    If judo is not treated with respect it will certainly drown one.

    Mike


    _________________
    WARNING. I write as a pupil of judo. what I write should be researched by the reader and not accepted as in any way factual or correct.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking.

    Gus

    Posts : 137
    Join date : 2013-03-01

    Re: Judo and Water

    Post by Gus on Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:30 pm

    To me that means being flexible in mind and body not brittle. When you meet a terrible negative force you do not snap , you bend and then spring back when the pressure is gone.
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    BillC

    Posts : 806
    Join date : 2012-12-28
    Location : Vista, California

    Re: Judo and Water

    Post by BillC on Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:43 am

    Gents, I have to run out of the dojo to the little house next door often enough during practice ... no more of this water talk!


    _________________
    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling

    Gus

    Posts : 137
    Join date : 2013-03-01

    Re: Judo and Water

    Post by Gus on Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:14 am

    Had to lower the tone didnt you ?

     Cool 
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    NBK

    Posts : 1128
    Join date : 2013-01-10
    Location : Tokyo, Japan

    Re: Judo and Water

    Post by NBK on Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:54 am

    I am surprised CK did not pick up on this thread - there is a current of water in judo philosophy (hey! I can do it, too!) that he articulates well.

    NBK
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    Steve Leadbeater

    Posts : 190
    Join date : 2013-02-26
    Age : 61
    Location : Sydney Australia

    Re: Judo and Water

    Post by Steve Leadbeater on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:44 am

    I just go with the flow......................
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    Cichorei Kano

    Posts : 1948
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Age : 857
    Location : the Holy See

    Re: Judo and Water

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:53 am

    NBK wrote:I am surprised CK did not pick up on this thread - there is a current of water in judo philosophy (hey! I can do it, too!) that he articulates well.

    NBK

    Some close friends and other people worried about my well-being and survival have urged repeatedly me not to give away all my work and knowledge. This is a thread I voluntarily have opted out ...


    _________________


    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
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    NBK

    Posts : 1128
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    Location : Tokyo, Japan

    Re: Judo and Water

    Post by NBK on Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:13 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    NBK wrote:I am surprised CK did not pick up on this thread - there is a current of water in judo philosophy (hey! I can do it, too!) that he articulates well.

    NBK

    Some close friends and other people worried about my well-being and survival have urged repeatedly me not to give away all my work and knowledge. This is a thread I voluntarily have opted out ...
    Not sure how you can link well-being or survival with posting on a forum with about five people watching this thread, but perhaps your life hangs by a thread  rabbit 

    If you or close friends think there's a measurable market for such among serious judoka, I'd like to see anything remotely resembling proof.

    And if there is a profitable market, I'd be pleasantly shocked.

    NBK
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    NBK

    Posts : 1128
    Join date : 2013-01-10
    Location : Tokyo, Japan

    Re: Judo and Water

    Post by NBK on Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:15 pm

    Gus wrote:To me that means being flexible in mind and body not brittle. When you meet a terrible negative force you do not snap , you bend and then spring back when the pressure is gone.
    Isn't that more the principle of flexibility 'ju' than water?
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    NBK

    Posts : 1128
    Join date : 2013-01-10
    Location : Tokyo, Japan

    Re: Judo and Water

    Post by NBK on Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:49 pm

    Anatol wrote:One principle in Judo for me is "Water".

    It has heavy weight, many forms (from ice to fog) and moves in waves and circles and has incredible power.

    Also the human body is mostly of water.

    Laozi 78 (translated by Feng & English)

    Under heaven nothing is more soft and yielding than water.
    Yet for attacking the solid and strong, nothing is better;
    It has no equal.
    The weak can overcome the strong;
    The supple can overcome the stiff.
    Under heaven everyone knows this,
    Yet no one puts it into practice.

    What do you think in terms of "Judo" and "Water"? Drink a lot of water so you do not get dehydrated?  ;-)
    I don't know what to make of water.

    Moving water, maybe... which can make waves.  

    Nanatsu­no­kata, Endō­no­kata, and Jōge­no­kata
    Abstract
    Hirano Tokio (1922-1993) was a talented jūdō champion who developed his own pedagogical approach towards teaching and practicing kuzushi (unbalancing) and tsukuri (preparation), two critical skills for successfully applying jūdō throws. In his approach, Hirano emphasizes the use of rotational unbalancing preceded by strategic movements that mimic water waves. No biomechanical analysis of Hirano’s wave system has previously been attempted. The purpose of this paper is to provide a detailed survey of Hirano’s didactic system comparing it with traditional Kōdōkan teachings, and to assess its biomechanical  foundations.  The  fluid  dynamic  modeling  of  the  several  kinds  of  waves  proposed  by  Hirano  is mathematically complicated and heavily relies on Boussinesq differential equations. Given the involvement of numerous parameters  in  determining  the  hydrodynamic  behavior  of  water  (depth,  period  of  waves,  saliency,  temperatures, currents,  shape  of  the  coastal line,  water  density,  wind)  which  are  absent in  the  surroundings  of  a  pair  of  two  jūdōka moving indoors on a tatami, Hirano’s system appears limited to a mere visualization and metaphysical interpretation of jūdō.  The  lack  of  empirical  and  experimental  data  available  obtained  in  large  groups  of  students  taught  according  to Hirano’s  approach  make  it  so  far  impossible  to  conclude  whether  it  facilitates  kuzushi  and  tsukuri  skill  acquisition.

    Ultimately  Hirano’s  wave‐based  kuzushi/tsukuri  does  not  alter  the  biomechanical  analysis  previously  proposed  by Sacripanti, as it still is all about general action invariants aimed to close the distance between both opponents, to break the opponent’s symmetry, and to apply one of the infinite options to achieve this.
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    Ricebale

    Posts : 423
    Join date : 2013-01-01
    Location : Wollongong Australia

    Re: Judo and Water

    Post by Ricebale on Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:34 pm



    Looks like fun
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    Cichorei Kano

    Posts : 1948
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Age : 857
    Location : the Holy See

    Re: Judo and Water

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:15 am

    Ricebale wrote:

    Looks like fun


    If only they were wearing a blue gi !


    _________________


    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
    avatar
    Cichorei Kano

    Posts : 1948
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Age : 857
    Location : the Holy See

    Re: Judo and Water

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:16 am

    And then there is also:

    http://watercanada.net/2012/judo-water-treatment/
    http://www.h2ologics.com/judo.html


    If only the question would have been about Judo and beer, then Steve would have been able to help us out a long time ago !  cheers 


    _________________


    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."

    Anatol

    Posts : 190
    Join date : 2014-01-20

    Re: Judo and Water

    Post by Anatol on Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:46 am

    Hi CK


    Cichorei Kano wrote: Some close friends and other people worried about my well-being and survival have urged repeatedly me not to give away all my work and knowledge. This is a thread I voluntarily have opted out ...

    I really do understand, why you "opted out" in matter of "Judo and Water". It's deep, to the core, subtile and boundless in one.


    Here a story from the Zhuangzi:

    The king of Wu,

    floating about on the Jiang, (landed and) ascended the Hill of monkeys, which all, when they saw him, scampered off in terror, and hid themselves among the thick hazels. There was one, however, which, in an unconcerned way, swung about on the branches, displaying its cleverness to the king, who thereon discharged an arrow at it. With a nimble motion it caught the swift arrow, and the king ordered his attendants to hurry forward and shoot it; and thus the monkey was seized and killed. The king then, looking round, said to his friend Yan Bu-yi, 'This monkey made a display of its artfulness, and trusted in its agility, to show me its arrogance - this it was which brought it to this fate.


    There is an idea/exercise in Daoism which is called "Guan Sheng" = Guarding of (one's personal) life. So thank you for not discussing this topic seriously.



    .

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