E-Judo

Judo network and forum


    Kodokan Goshinjutsu - Working Group Members

    Share
    avatar
    Jonesy

    Posts : 1016
    Join date : 2013-01-02

    Kodokan Goshinjutsu - Working Group Members

    Post by Jonesy on Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:16 pm

    I had this http://judoinfo.com/katagosh1.htm brought to my attention because Tomiki-sensei's name is conspicuous by its absence - which must be an error. I have also seen different names as panel members: http://www.judoka.britishjudocouncil.org/issue/18/april-2013-issue-121/335/kodokan-goshin-jutsu.html


    Goshin Jutsu Judo Working Group

    President:

    Kotani Sumiyuki, 10. Dan

    Members:
    Kinebuchi Masamitsu, 9. Dan
    Ôtaki Tadao, 9.Dan
    KuharaYoshiyuki, 9. Dan
    MatsumotoYoshizô, 9. Dan
    Hosokawa Kusuo,9. Dan
    Hosokawa Kumazô,9. Dan
    Oimatsu Shinichi, 9. Dan
    Kobiki Yasumasa, 8. Dan
    Daigo Toshirô, 8. Dan
    Kawamura Teizô, 8. Dan
    Abe Ichirô, 8. Dan
    Ôsawa Yoshimi, 8. Dan
    Takamura Tokuichi, 8. Dan
    Kudô Nobuo, 8. Dan
    Takata Katsuyoshi, 8. Dan
    Shibayama Kenji, 8. Dan
    Satô Yoshihara, 8. Dan
    Kawabe Katsuhiko, 8. Dan
    Matsushita Saburô, 8. Dan
    Takeuchi Yoshinori, 8. Dan
    Yamamoto Shirô, 7. Dan
    Satô Tsuyoshi, 7. Dan
    Yamamoto Nobuaki, 7. Dan
    Onozawa Hiroshi, 7. Dan

    Source: Goshin-Jitsu-no-Kata oder die "Form der Verteidigungstechniken"by Jochen Kohnert (translated from "Goshin Jitsu" by the Kodokan).
    Thanks to Andreas Quast who provided this list to the Judo Information Site. Last updated March 13, 2006.
    avatar
    Cichorei Kano

    Posts : 1948
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Age : 857
    Location : the Holy See

    Re: Kodokan Goshinjutsu - Working Group Members

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:55 pm

    Jonesy wrote:I had this http://judoinfo.com/katagosh1.htm brought to my attention  because Tomiki-sensei's name is conspicuous by its absence - which must be an error. I have also seen different names as panel members: http://www.judoka.britishjudocouncil.org/issue/18/april-2013-issue-121/335/kodokan-goshin-jutsu.html


    Goshin Jutsu Judo Working Group

    President:

    Kotani Sumiyuki, 10. Dan

    Members:
    Kinebuchi Masamitsu, 9. Dan
    Ôtaki Tadao, 9.Dan
    KuharaYoshiyuki, 9. Dan
    MatsumotoYoshizô, 9. Dan
    Hosokawa Kusuo,9. Dan
    Hosokawa Kumazô,9. Dan
    Oimatsu Shinichi, 9. Dan
    Kobiki Yasumasa, 8. Dan
    Daigo Toshirô, 8. Dan
    Kawamura Teizô, 8. Dan
    Abe Ichirô, 8. Dan
    Ôsawa Yoshimi, 8. Dan
    Takamura Tokuichi, 8. Dan
    Kudô Nobuo, 8. Dan
    Takata Katsuyoshi, 8. Dan
    Shibayama Kenji, 8. Dan
    Satô Yoshihara, 8. Dan
    Kawabe Katsuhiko, 8. Dan
    Matsushita Saburô, 8. Dan
    Takeuchi Yoshinori, 8. Dan
    Yamamoto Shirô, 7. Dan
    Satô Tsuyoshi, 7. Dan
    Yamamoto Nobuaki, 7. Dan
    Onozawa Hiroshi, 7. Dan

    Source: Goshin-Jitsu-no-Kata oder die "Form der Verteidigungstechniken"by Jochen Kohnert (translated from "Goshin Jitsu" by the Kodokan).
    Thanks to Andreas Quast who provided this list to the Judo Information Site. Last updated March 13, 2006.


    Interesting, but of course completely wrong in that respect. I think that "the Judo Information Site" is meant to be a valuable popular resource for the average jûdôka, but that does not make it a scholarly database that is even remotely accurate, due to the simple reason that there was not peer review process involved in the selection of material, which makes it a bit of a jûdô potpourri.

    You should have picked up on the many red flags in the list above. Several of the names are wrong, which suggest that simply because someone has the ability to translate Japanese, that still does not make him/her an experienced jûdô scholar. This actually is not just a 'suggestion' but is really so, as many other stories would confirm. No matter how well one speaks Japanese or even is a Japanese scholar, one can't be an accomplished jûdô scholar if this isn't matched by a similar abundance of experience on the tatami which always needs to function as a cross-check of scientific conclusion can be actually meaningful in the context. It just does not work, no matter what some might believe. I do not mean this as a 'personal' criticism to the author of the list on the Judo Information site, but as a general criticism.

    "Onozawa Hiroshi" ?  Everyone with the least jûdô scholarly experience authoring the list printed above would immediately have recognized and know that the first name in 小野沢弘史 in this case is not pronounced 'Hiroshi' but 'Kôshi'. The author of the list clearly didn't and also did not sufficiently carry out cross-checks.

    Kotani, 10th dan and Abe, 8th dan ?  That implies that the dataset dates from between 1984-1992.

    If this indeed would the Goshinjutsu Committee, then Nagaoka, Mifune and Samura would have all been kicked out by little kids such as Onozawa, who would have been 9 years old in 1956 !

    Conclusion: this list has nothing to do with the Committee that 'composed' Kôdôkan goshinjutsu, but simply is a list of people involved in the making of one of the two previous Goshinjutsu brochures, which were produced in 1988 and 1993, respectively. Since Abe Ichirô became a 9th dan in 1992 and is listed here still as 8th dan, this suggest that this is the list of people who collaborated to the 1988 brochure.

    Of course, Tomiki was part of THE Goshinjutsu committee, and so were Mifune and so was Nagaoka (but only for a couple of months as the man died towards the end of 1952). He 'created' the kata with Ôtaki during the Kagami Biraki in 1956 ('creating' meant in the sense of the 'creation' of a music piece, i.e., the "world premiere", not 'authoring').

    Then again, in defense of the Judo Information Site, it does not actually say or imply that this list would be of the committee that made the original Goshinjutsu. It is only a list of 'a' Goshinjutsu working group, but the information in the text printed below which was written by Kanô Risei in 1958, in conjunction with the above list dating from three decades later, probably prompts misinterpretation to many.


    Last edited by Cichorei Kano on Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:22 am; edited 1 time in total


    _________________


    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."

    Kuden

    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2013-01-21

    Re: Kodokan Goshinjutsu - Working Group Members

    Post by Kuden on Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:55 am

    Not that I knew the names but that I happened to have a class on Goshinjutsu so ...
    10th Dan 永岡秀一(Nagaoka) 三船久蔵(mifune) 佐村嘉一郎(Samura)
    9th Dan 小田常胤(Oda) 栗原民雄(Kurihara) 中野正三(Nakano)
    8th Dan 新井源水(Arai) 居藤高季(Ito) 胡井剛一(Ebii) 川上忠(Kawakami) 菊池揚二(Kikuchi) 工藤一三(Kudo) 子安正男(Koyasu) 小谷澄之(Kotani) 澤 逸与(Sawa) 鈴木潔治(Suzuki) 高橋喜三郎(Takahashi K.) 高橋浜吉(Takahashi H.) 長畑 功(Nagahata) 早川 勝(Hayakawa) 大滝忠夫(Otaki)
    7th Dan 酒本房太郎(Sakamoto) 佐藤忠吾(Sato C.) 富木謙治(Tomiki) 松本芳三(Matsumoto)
    The Kodokan Goshinjutsu Founding Committee was formed in September 1952 composed of 25 members as listed.

    avatar
    Jonesy

    Posts : 1016
    Join date : 2013-01-02

    Re: Kodokan Goshinjutsu - Working Group Members

    Post by Jonesy on Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:24 pm

    Thank you Kuden-sensei and CK-sensei for this input.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Kodokan Goshinjutsu - Working Group Members

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:14 pm