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    Stiff arms!

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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:23 pm

    Ricebale wrote:
    Mr Kano,

    I remembered I had a video of myself competing a couple of years ago under the old rules system of Judo against a very powerful foreign Judoka, (we are being reffed here by a 5th or 6th Dan from a Japanese University club and the officials chair had older more senior judoka from Japan so I felt quite privileged to compete). You will see I am not playing conventional Judo but rather my own style which uses "surprise, tricking someone (feigning), overpower the opponent, making him commit mistakes." I do not understand all of what 'jû' is but every person of skill who has trained with me invariably comment that my wrestling style is very energy efficient which I think is part of this.

    My opponent was attempting to use his superior size, strength and experience to stiff arm me into a mistake. In his prior matches on the day he stiff armed to unchi mata everyone else in under a minute. I employed my radical tactical adjustment theory and engaged him in a manner which did not rely on grip against grip fighting but rather deflection of power, angles and speed. It is the first match in this vid:

    For the OP the key for me is to not let them settle the stiff arm before you move the shoulder they are gripping either under them or backwards as you twist your body, lesson for me is you cannot fight superior power with inferior power so do something else.

    Cheers



    Thanks for posting this. This is, of course, shiai, not randori. No need to worry about jû ... in a sense that no one does shiai to show jû, but to whn. That is normal. Besides things such a jû is for late in one's career really past competitive career. It just takes too long to master. YOu applied good strategy taking into account hte properties of the opponent. The wrestling background is obvious from your posture. An alternative would have been to drive up the pace; he would not have been able to follow you. The positions of both athletes remain fairly statical throughout the fight. Being more dynamic means more challenge to the endurance system, which could present a problem if one's endurance isn't particularly strong or if one still has some heavy matches to come. So, you provided responses that work indeed, but pedagogically my advice would be for the original poster in randori (not shiai) to not be seduced by these and instead focuse on being dynamic and tai-sabai, etc. He needs to build a foundation, otherwise he will uitmatly fail.


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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:28 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    sydvicious wrote:One of the most important things I've been working on is to stop doing it and, so far, I'm happy with my progress. I'm getting much 'looser' in randori. But last night, during randori, I was partnered with a fellow 4th Kyu and he was stiff arming like crazy!
    So my question to the elders is simple. What do you do when you are up against someone like that. Are there certain techniques that work better in that situation or ways to get round the stiff arming in order to close the distance, etc?

    I could start by providing all kinds of theoretical solutions, none of which will likely be effective at your level, so I am not going to do it and limit myself to saying that an astute sensei needs to take up his/her responsibility, watch his/her students and interfere and provide guidance where necessary.

    That would be my first response as well. To the OP, just ask the guy to stop stiff arming. But don't just start slinging him around, more than likely he's just scared.



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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:32 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    beyondgrappling wrote:Jimmy Pedro has a great video youtube regarding how to get around the stiff arms

    Hope they helped you out

    What do you think the chances are a 4th kyû can even remotely replicate that what an ex-world champion and world class elite player does who coaches Olympic athletes ?  It isn't just a matter of technique, feeling, experience, strategic insight, but even factors as simply as mere physical force. I have never fought Pedro, but seeing how he works, what he does and what their focus was in training Kayla, I think it is safe to say that the man has enormous physical force. When you have that sort of force you also have a degree of explosiveness and confidence that simply as a person and athlete puts you into a category that comparing any mere mortal with that becomes an exercise in futility. It reminds me of a memorable session where I got into a big fight with Van De Walle who was 'teaching' ô-uchi-gari. With a single hand he pinned his uke on the tatami to the extent that the juice came out of any bodily orifice. You couldn't move if you would have used a crowbar. I told him I would have loved to see him try that on Khubuluri ...

    These videos are great to watch, so thank you for that, but for Christ's sake, let's be real or a second: THE ORIGNAL POSTER IS A 4th KYÛ !!

    I'm sure there are other people who post here who have done Judo with Jimmy Pedro. I went to one of his clinics, when he was in his prime, and I can assure you you are correct about the amount of force the man could and I'm sure can still apply. However, he is also very, very skilled, with excellent timing, reaction and all that as well, and was a great clinician in terms of his ability to convey what he was teaching.

    I agree, for a 4th kyu, all the technical stuff is overload, although certainly good advice.




    DougNZ

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by DougNZ on Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:34 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    DougNZ wrote:So, from clinching, for example, if uke separates and applies force (in whatever direction), we learn to work around that force using good tai sabaki, and from new positions and angles put uke into a state of kuzushi. Often we use 'blanketing', which is putting uke into these awkward positions and then being 'soft' and 'heavy', and waiting for uke to show us where he wants to be taken down to.  We oblige with the use of hips and waist.  This is not a spectacular way of putting uke on the ground but it is sophisticated and subtle, and employs the highest principles of ju-jitsu and judo.  

    If a novice jûdôka is able to get his opponent on the ground with a "take-down", that's what he is going, hence often failing to learn the basics of proper standing throws, and everything that comes with it such as debana and tai-sabaki. For that reason such take-downs pedagogically do not really belong in the novice curriculum. ...

    In the example you gave you were describing yourself. You are youself not a novice but an experience jûdôka. The equation is different.

    I think you misunderstand me. We teach this sort of blanketing takedowns from about year 1 in a new pupil's development. Within about four months, all of them have the knack of it. I believe it is an excellent way of understanding debana, tai sabaki and kuzushi. In fact, when pupils go on to learn osotogari, for example, they feel cheated when they take uke off balance and he falls before they can get the reap in! These are people who have been training just 18 months, not 18 years! And they get the same results in randori. However, please note that this style of learning and training does not work for all 'judo' throws but it does form a good basis to progress from.

    I am still coming to terms with how 'judo' throws fit into this style of ju-jitsu. I find I use a multitude of throws in a variety of situations but often the 'right' technique at the time is a simple, smothering takedown and the more complex throwing equivalent is superfluous. Maximum efficiency with minimum effort.

    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:35 pm

    beyondgrappling wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    beyondgrappling wrote:Jimmy Pedro has a great video youtube regarding how to get around the stiff arms

    Hope they helped you out

    What do you think the chances are a 4th kyû can even remotely replicate that what an ex-world champion and world class elite player does who coaches Olympic athletes ?  It isn't just a matter of technique, feeling, experience, strategic insight, but even factors as simply as mere physical force. I have never fought Pedro, but seeing how he works, what he does and what their focus was in training Kayla, I think it is safe to say that the man has enormous physical force. When you have that sort of force you also have a degree of explosiveness and confidence that simply as a person and athlete puts you into a category that comparing any mere mortal with that becomes an exercise in futility. It reminds me of a memorable session where I got into a big fight with Van De Walle who was 'teaching' ô-uchi-gari. With a single hand he pinned his uke on the tatami to the extent that the juice came out of any bodily orifice. You couldn't move if you would have used a crowbar. I told him I would have loved to see him try that on Khubuluri ...

    These videos are great to watch, so thank you for that, but for Christ's sake, let's be real or a second: THE ORIGNAL POSTER IS A 4th KYÛ !!


    G whizz calm down calm down.  I apologise for posting 3 good instructionals that can assist in educating a fellow Judoka and other Judoka who may happen to come across this thread.
    I think the chances of a 4th Kyu performing any of these techniques is highly likely. In my experience having the attitude of "A student cannot do this or that" is a big flaw to have as a teacher, mentor, educator or coach.  You do not know the original posters background and what he/she brings to the table, for all we know the OP could be an ex-collegiate wrestler now doing Judo and physically capable of tossing a few blackbelts around.

    So calm down and next time leave Jesus out of it Smile


    No, the OP isn't that at all, and we know it from past experience with him here.

    In any case, I get your point.

    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:43 pm

    Ricebale wrote:

    This is a Sambo match I reffed last weekend, the Blue guy is a 2nd Dan Judo and the Red guy is a Mongolian Wrestler (Bokh), you can see at the beginning how red neutralises blues stiff arm by both moving and adjusting to strong other grips till he gets the balance broken.

    I'm not suggesting you use any of this technique, merely providing by way of example that if you play a different game on the attack the opponent.

    I used to grab their belt and pull them in, but not sure if you can do that in Judo anymore.

    Cheers

    I can see how red essentially locks on very strong grips and then physically overpowers blue, who himself is not exactly a skinny weakling.

    I'm not saying no skill was involved, however, skill plus a lot of force won the match in that case. Blue tried to go toe to toe and it didn't work.


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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:54 pm

    [quote="Cichorei Kano"]
    Ricebale wrote:
    Mr Kano,

    I remembered I had a video of myself competing a couple of years ago under the old rules system of Judo against a very powerful foreign Judoka, (we are being reffed here by a 5th or 6th Dan from a Japanese University club and the officials chair had older more senior judoka from Japan so I felt quite privileged to compete). You will see I am not playing conventional Judo but rather my own style which uses "surprise, tricking someone (feigning), overpower the opponent, making him commit mistakes." I do not understand all of what 'jû' is but every person of skill who has trained with me invariably comment that my wrestling style is very energy efficient which I think is part of this.

    My opponent was attempting to use his superior size, strength and experience to stiff arm me into a mistake. In his prior matches on the day he stiff armed to unchi mata everyone else in under a minute. I employed my radical tactical adjustment theory and engaged him in a manner which did not rely on grip against grip fighting but rather deflection of power, angles and speed. It is the first match in this vid:

    For the OP the key for me is to not let them settle the stiff arm before you move the shoulder they are gripping either under them or backwards as you twist your body, lesson for me is you cannot fight superior power with inferior power so do something else.

    Cheers



    Thanks for posting this. This is, of course, shiai, not randori. No need to worry about jû ... in a sense that no one does shiai to show jû, but to whn. That is normal. Besides things such a jû is for late in one's career really past competitive career. It just takes too long to master. YOu applied good strategy taking into account hte properties of the opponent. The wrestling background is obvious from your posture. An alternative would have been to drive up the pace; he would not have been able to follow you. The positions of both athletes remain fairly statical throughout the fight. Being more dynamic means more challenge to the endurance system, which could present a problem if one's endurance isn't particularly strong or if one still has some heavy matches to come. So, you provided responses that work indeed, but pedagogically my advice would be for the original poster in randori (not shiai) to not be seduced by these and instead focus on being dynamic and tai-sabaki, etc.  He needs to build a foundation,  otherwise he will ultimately fail.[/quote]

    Bolded for truth, in my experience at least. I've seen it again and again and again.


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    Ricebale

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by Ricebale on Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:21 pm

    Cheers, good observations.

    One of the problems with stiff arming is the Olmpics and shiai in general, Peter Seisenbacher basically won two olympic medals and a world championship by virtue of his stiff arm technique, he mentions this is his book and also comments the Japanese were not equipped to deal with and critiqued him for not having "good judo" because of his emphasis on strength. You can see the advantages of stiff arming in the modern rules as you legs are very difficult to attack.


    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:49 pm

    Ricebale wrote:Cheers, good observations.

    One of the problems with stiff arming is the Olmpics and shiai in general, Peter Seisenbacher basically won two olympic medals and a world championship by virtue of his stiff arm technique, he mentions this is his book and also comments the Japanese were not equipped to deal with and critiqued him for not having "good judo" because of his emphasis on strength. You can see the advantages of stiff arming in the modern rules as you legs are very difficult to attack.


    I don't know if Seisenbacher really "stiff-armed" his opponents. I know that the man is physically hugely strong, and probably like one of his teachers  --10th dan George Kerr--  knew how to use the force of his arms to block off his opponent. Kerr did that all of the time. But, it isn't really "stiff arming" since he does not stretch his arms. Rather, he has perfected the technique to use his arms to block off the opponent without it being so that it would meet the penalty criterion. That is something I learnt to do too. It is not something I relied on or would constantly do, but ...  when you meet someone who is physically so strong that you have no alternative or being thrown, it is a valid strategy. After all, when working at that level you often can't just often your opponent around because they too have of course trained in endurance. There was one guy in my category, internationally, who was hugely strong, a certain Nowak, Michel Nowak from France. I believe he won a bronze on the 1984 Olympics in LA.

    You can see him fight Neil Adams here. Sure, Adams wins, but Adams in his prime was not just technically good, but also hugely strong, and you can see that he is able to get out of Adams jûji-gatame, which is also an achievements. You will also see what I mean since though Adams remains dynamic and does good jûdô he does of course also use his strong arms to keep the very strong Nowak at a distance. In the end, because Adams is a much better strategic and has the better technique, he prevails. But though using his strong arms, Adams is not 'stiff-arming' Nowak.



    As a competitor you simply have to find an option to beat physically stronger opponents, and that isn't always so simple. As coaches we can give options and strategies, but ultimately it's the guy or girl on the tatami who has to pull it off, and simply doing what the coach says is not always that easy. The coach is not out of breath, the jûdôka is, and as logical as the suggestion from the coach may be, he does not feel the constant threat of the opponent. Sometimes you just do not do things, because you can simply feel and anticipate that if you try this, the opponent will counter and you might get ippon against, whereas otherwise you might just lose with a little difference. Perhaps not jûdô ideology but still a very practical concern.

    By the way, I believe our forum friend Jonesy has trained with Seisenbacher, and I believe he will attest to Seisenbacher's huge physical power.


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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:26 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Ricebale wrote:Cheers, good observations.

    One of the problems with stiff arming is the Olmpics and shiai in general, Peter Seisenbacher basically won two olympic medals and a world championship by virtue of his stiff arm technique, he mentions this is his book and also comments the Japanese were not equipped to deal with and critiqued him for not having "good judo" because of his emphasis on strength. You can see the advantages of stiff arming in the modern rules as you legs are very difficult to attack.


    I don't know if Seisenbacher really "stiff-armed" his opponents. I know that the man is physically hugely strong, and probably like one of his teachers  --10th dan George Kerr--  knew how to use the force of his arms to block off his opponent. Kerr did that all of the time. But, it isn't really "stiff arming" since he does not stretch his arms. Rather, he has perfected the technique to use his arms to block off the opponent without it being so that it would meet the penalty criterion. That is something I learnt to do too. It is not something I relied on or would constantly do, but ...  when you meet someone who is physically so strong that you have no alternative or being thrown, it is a valid strategy. After all, when working at that level you often can't just often your opponent around because they too have of course trained in endurance. There was one guy in my category, internationally, who was hugely strong, a certain Nowak, Michel Nowak from France. I believe he won a bronze on the 1984 Olympics in LA.

    You can see him fight Neil Adams here. Sure, Adams wins, but Adams in his prime was not just technically good, but also hugely strong, and you can see that he is able to get out of Adams jûji-gatame, which is also an achievements. You will also see what I mean since though Adams remains dynamic and does good jûdô he does of course also use his strong arms to keep the very strong Nowak at a distance. In the end, because Adams is a much better strategic and has the better technique, he prevails. But though using his strong arms, Adams is not 'stiff-arming' Nowak.



    As a competitor you simply have to find an option to beat physically stronger opponents, and that isn't always so simple. As coaches we can give options and strategies, but ultimately it's the guy or girl on the tatami who has to pull it off, and simply doing what the coach says is not always that easy. The coach is not out of breath, the jûdôka is, and as logical as the suggestion from the coach may be, he does not feel the constant threat of the opponent. Sometimes you just do not do things, because you can simply feel and anticipate that if you try this, the opponent will counter and you might get ippon against, whereas otherwise you might just lose with a little difference. Perhaps not jûdô ideology but still a very practical concern.

    By the way, I believe our forum friend Jonesy has trained with Seisenbacher, and I believe he will attest to Seisenbacher's huge physical power.

    Definitely a huge difference between the "scared white belt" stiff arms and the proper use of "stiff arms" against a skilled and or stronger opponent. How about the feeling that you have been glued to the floor when coming to grips, eh ? Guy grabs you, and it's like instant paralysis. He still moves around but it's like wearing cement zori, trying to do anything other than follow.

    I like what you write about coaching. I still remember enough of competing to try not to give too much advice on exactly what to do to my students when they are in a match. It's one thing to see something they could do, another for them to do it.



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    tafftaz

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by tafftaz on Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:55 am

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    . How about the feeling that you have been glued to the floor when coming to grips, eh ? Guy grabs you, and it's like instant paralysis. He still moves around but it's like wearing cement zori, trying to do anything other than follow.



    Been there a few times , in randori and shiai. You are spot on about instant paralysis Ben. Especially when gripped by a world class judoka. A real shock to the system.

    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:55 am

    tafftaz wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    . How about the feeling that you have been glued to the floor when coming to grips, eh ? Guy grabs you, and it's like instant paralysis. He still moves around but it's like wearing cement zori, trying to do anything other than follow.



    Been there a few times , in randori and shiai. You are spot on about instant paralysis Ben. Especially when gripped by a world class judoka. A real shock to the system.

    Decades later it is now fun to look back at, but it wasn't fun at the time. What also is 'fun' is how people who have not been there and who watch judo videos see these moves happen and think it is all just technique and no force. They don't realize that even if you don't do a thing yourself you're soaked in sweat after 30 seconds just trying to remain on your feet. When they make a foot sweet it isn't even a footsweep, but it is like they unleash this hugely powerful and explosive "low kick" on your leg. But there is psychology involved too. If your opponent is physically really stronger than you it is important to hide it, if you can, because an opponent realizing he is stronger is at an advantage. It's a tricky thing because if he is really stronger and you have to cover up that you are weaker that means you have to put a lot of energy into withstanding his strength. The best strategy in that is to attack yourself, but that is of course yet another challenge when you are already putting in so much just trying to remain on your feet and withstand his strength. And don't forget, always be weary of the guys with the hairy forearms, those are the once to be careful for !!  pirat 


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    still learning

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by still learning on Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:58 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    tafftaz wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    . How about the feeling that you have been glued to the floor when coming to grips, eh ? Guy grabs you, and it's like instant paralysis. He still moves around but it's like wearing cement zori, trying to do anything other than follow.



    Been there a few times , in randori and shiai. You are spot on about instant paralysis Ben. Especially when gripped by a world class judoka. A real shock to the system.

    . And don't forget, always be weary of the guys with the hairy forearms, those are the once to be careful for !!   pirat 

    We normally refer to those as gorillas...

    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:36 am

    tafftaz wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    . How about the feeling that you have been glued to the floor when coming to grips, eh ? Guy grabs you, and it's like instant paralysis. He still moves around but it's like wearing cement zori, trying to do anything other than follow.



    Been there a few times , in randori and shiai. You are spot on about instant paralysis Ben. Especially when gripped by a world class judoka. A real shock to the system.


    It's something that most judoka don't get to experience, which might be a good thing. In my case, it made me realize just how crappy and weak I really was, relatively speaking. And then there are levels of being paralyzed. Just when I would think I had gotten strong enough, I'd step up a level of training or competition and have it happen all over again. Eventually I realized I did not have the genetics to get that strong. Despite my very hairy (but blond) forearms...


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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:45 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    tafftaz wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    . How about the feeling that you have been glued to the floor when coming to grips, eh ? Guy grabs you, and it's like instant paralysis. He still moves around but it's like wearing cement zori, trying to do anything other than follow.



    Been there a few times , in randori and shiai. You are spot on about instant paralysis Ben. Especially when gripped by a world class judoka. A real shock to the system.

    Decades later it is now fun to look back at, but it wasn't fun at the time. What also is 'fun' is how people who have not been there and who watch judo videos see these moves happen and think it is all just technique and no force. They don't realize that even if you don't do a thing yourself you're soaked in sweat after 30 seconds just trying to remain on your feet. When they make a foot sweet it isn't even a footsweep, but it is like they unleash this hugely powerful and explosive "low kick" on your leg. But there is psychology involved too. If your opponent is physically really stronger than you it is important to hide it, if you can, because an opponent realizing he is stronger is at an advantage. It's a tricky thing because if he is really stronger and you have to cover up that you are weaker that means you have to put a lot of energy into withstanding his strength. The best strategy in that is to attack yourself, but that is of course yet another challenge when you are already putting in so much just trying to remain on your feet and withstand his strength. And don't forget, always be weary of the guys with the hairy forearms, those are the once to be careful for !!   pirat 

    I did some randori with the Paul Maruyama back in the early/mid '80s at the USOTC. He had the whole paralyze you to the ground thing down pat,LOL ! Plus very nice technique of course...he was around 50 years old at the time, I think, and was still running the Pike's Peak "Marathon". His comment to me was along the lines of that had good fighting spirit but I needed to learn to stand up...which was impossible as he had some sort of neutronium in his body. Of course, he destroyed all the national level lightweights in randori, and not a few of the larger guys too...

    I think there is a lot of psychology of competing that does  not get covered anymore. Like  not acting tired even if you feel like your lungs may show up on the tatami at any moment. I was never allowed to lay on the tatami after being thrown, bend over and breath hard, or show any signs of being exhausted, other than unconsciousness or vomiting, and the vomit had better have gone inside the jacket not on the floor.

    "Get up!" was a common motivator, and knowing that if I didn't, I was going to get thrown when I did, or, just picked up off the tatami and thrown again, with increasing force and body contact until I managed to motivate.


    Last edited by Ben Reinhardt on Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    DougNZ

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by DougNZ on Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:31 am

    "Feign strength when you are weak and weakness when you are strong." Good words, though showing strength when you are strong is a good tactic, too.

    Richard Riehle

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by Richard Riehle on Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:58 am



    [/quote]


    I did some randori with the late Paul Maruyama back in the early/mid '80s at the USOTC. He had the whole paralyze you to the ground thing down pat,LOL ! Plus very nice technique of course...he was around 50 years old at the time, I think, and was still running the Pike's Peak "Marathon". His comment to me was along the lines of that had good fighting spirit but I needed to learn to stand up...which was impossible as he had some sort of neutronium in his body. Of course, he destroyed all the national level lightweights in randori, and not a few of the larger guys too...
    [/quote]

    I suspect Paul will be quite surprised to learn that he is dead.

    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:09 pm

    I did some randori with the late Paul Maruyama back in the early/mid '80s at the USOTC. He had the whole paralyze you to the ground thing down pat,LOL ! Plus very nice technique of course...he was around 50 years old at the time, I think, and was still running the Pike's Peak "Marathon". His comment to me was along the lines of that had good fighting spirit but I needed to learn to stand up...which was impossible as he had some sort of neutronium in his body. Of course, he destroyed all the national level lightweights in randori, and not a few of the larger guys too...
    [/quote]

    I suspect Paul will be quite surprised to learn that he is dead.[/quote]

    I edited my post to reflect the correction, thanks very much for pointing it out !

    Then I am sure I am confusing him with someone else who is dead. My apologies to him if he happens to read this !

    I did do randori with him, though, and he sure as heck was alive then. Watching him do randori with Tommy Martin was quite the experience.


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    judoratt

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by judoratt on Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:06 pm

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:I did some randori with the late Paul Maruyama back in the early/mid '80s at the USOTC. He had the whole paralyze you to the ground thing down pat,LOL ! Plus very nice technique of course...he was around 50 years old at the time, I think, and was still running the Pike's Peak "Marathon". His comment to me was along the lines of that had good fighting spirit but I needed to learn to stand up...which was impossible as he had some sort of neutronium in his body. Of course, he destroyed all the national level lightweights in randori, and not a few of the larger guys too...

    I suspect Paul will be quite surprised to learn that he is dead.[/quote]

    I edited my post to reflect the correction, thanks very much for pointing it out !

    Then I am sure I am confusing him with someone else who is dead. My apologies to him if he happens to read this !

    I did do randori with him, though, and he sure as heck was alive then. Watching him do randori with Tommy Martin was quite the experience.[/quote]



    Didn't Paul fight at the US open and medal after he was 50. Every one said he was a monster and enjoyed running pikes peak. Heck I had trouble driving up Pikes peak. Joe Marchell said paul would run it with the OTC team and smoke every one.

    Heisenberg

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by Heisenberg on Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:38 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    I do not know what your experience is either, but since you are making a reference to that, if that experience implies   --and I am assuming then that you are indeed a very experienced teacher of jûdô--

    I realize I'm a little late to the party...but I believe the user beyondgrappling is Tori from the third video he posted...Australian judo olympian Matt D'Aquino.


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    KShaft

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by KShaft on Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:24 pm

    Thanks Matt. I love the videos.

    beyondgrappling

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by beyondgrappling on Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:25 pm

    KShaft wrote:Thanks Matt. I love the videos.

    no worries mate - I try to help out when I can Smile

    JudoStu

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by JudoStu on Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:35 pm

    Ricebale wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:

    Ricebale, could you please elaborate on how you perceive stiff-arming in one art compared to the other ?  I would imagine that in no-jacket work it is "less of a problem" in the sense that it is 'expected' and doing so not 'improper' since it does not strive for 'jû' ?  Would you agree with that ?

    I would also expect then that perhaps rather then 'pliability' your response in no-jacket wrestling to stiff-arming would be surprise, tricking someone (feigning), overpower the opponent, making him commit mistakes.

    Mr Kano,

    I remembered I had a video of myself competing a couple of years ago under the old rules system of Judo against a very powerful foreign Judoka, (we are being reffed here by a 5th or 6th Dan from a Japanese University club and the officials chair had older more senior judoka from Japan so I felt quite privileged to compete). You will see I am not playing conventional Judo but rather my own style which uses "surprise, tricking someone (feigning), overpower the opponent, making him commit mistakes." I do not understand all of what 'jû' is but every person of skill who has trained with me invariably comment that my wrestling style is very energy efficient which I think is part of this.

    My opponent was attempting to use his superior size, strength and experience to stiff arm me into a mistake. In his prior matches on the day he stiff armed to unchi mata everyone else in under a minute. I employed my radical tactical adjustment theory and engaged him in a manner which did not rely on grip against grip fighting but rather deflection of power, angles and speed. It is the first match in this vid:



    For the OP the key for me is to not let them settle the stiff arm before you move the shoulder they are gripping either under them or backwards as you twist your body, lesson for me is you cannot fight superior power with inferior power so do something else.

    Cheers

    I must have missed this thread somehow but have just read the whole thing. Some excellent advice given which i'm sure Judoka from all levels can take and use.
    I particularly enjoyed your video and your use of tactics to beat what looked like a much bigger and stronger opponent. Its always nice to put a face to someones profile.


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    sydvicious

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by sydvicious on Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:05 pm

    I saw this clip on another forum. The topic was about effective Judo throws for BJJ and I thought this would work against a stiff arming uke...
    At the end of the clip, there are also examples of how he used it in competition.



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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Stiff arms!

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:01 am

    sydvicious wrote:I saw this clip on another forum. The topic was about effective Judo throws for BJJ and I thought this would work against a stiff arming uke...
    At the end of the clip, there are also examples of how he used it in competition.


    Ude Garami (Correction: Thanks to Fritz!) Ude Gaeshi might or might not be a "throw" for scoring purposes under current judo rules (or older one's either). We've had some extensive discusions of that topic here or at the old judo forum.

    Ude Gaeshi isn't trivial to do correctly, and if you miss it, you are in a bad position on the ground, so I find it amusing that it's touted as a "judo throw for BJJ" (the irony is killing me).

    I went through a stage where I was working on a lot of "skillfull entries to ne waza" (this back in the late '80s through mid '90s). I was getting older and still competing in the regular (non-masters) divisions. My speed was decaying (being a -65 kg judoka, that's basically death, LOL) as usual with age, but my ne waza was pretty good.

    Ude Garami (correction..Thanks Fritz) Ude Gaeshi is one I worked on quite a bit. I never pulled it of in shiai (other than throwing myself in to a pin and getting a "false attack" penalty (from a PJU level ref at that, LOL!). Would work sometimes in randori, but on the other hand it's kind of obvious technique in how it is "set up" or at least relative body position and gripping.

    All that to say, it's cool to practice, but not really an overall solution to "stiff arms".


    Last edited by Ben Reinhardt on Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:19 am; edited 1 time in total


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