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    Landing someone hard and reaction

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    Raj Venugopal

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    Join date : 2013-01-21

    Landing someone hard and reaction

    Post by Raj Venugopal on Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:52 am

    When you guys throw someone cleanly for ippon in shiai but hurt them because you've thrown them hard, is your instantaneous reaction indifference, concern, compassion, happiness, pride, ....?

    Yesterday I threw someone for ippon in a shiai with ura-nage and hurt him because I went airborne and spiked him. He landed pretty hard and my instant reaction was concern and to ask him if he was OK before the refs shoo'ed me away to my line.

    I was curious what sort of "instant reactions" others have. No judgement, just curious.
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    BillC

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    Re: Landing someone hard and reaction

    Post by BillC on Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:10 am

    Depends on what kind of person you are?  And how tightly wrapped you are?  And to some extent how you are trained to react?

    Sure ... in tournament mode even at local events there are the types opposite to you ... the arm-pumping "take that b***h" kinds of individuals.

    'Spose it has something to do also with what you think you are doing Judo or judo, and if you what you figure is "just part of the game?"

    Me? It happens so rarely any more that probably my first reaction is ... shock and surprise!


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    Heisenberg

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    Re: Landing someone hard and reaction

    Post by Heisenberg on Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:22 pm

    I wouldn't intentionally injure someone, but it happens and it is part of the game. When we bow and take the first step we absolve our opponent of responsibility for our safety. That said, most Judo people are caring people.


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    tafftaz

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    Re: Landing someone hard and reaction

    Post by tafftaz on Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:36 am

    this will happen to most judoka in shiai.
    Myself I go back to my mark,kneel in seiza, with my back to the middle of the mat area and wait for the ref or officials to call it. Then I would go and ask if everything is ok.
    This is the way I was taught to act in shiai.
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    NBK

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    Re: Landing someone hard and reaction

    Post by NBK on Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:56 am

    Aren't you a relative beginner? Thus competing with a relative beginner?

    Spiking someone with uranage is a pretty tough on most anyone, much less a beginner. Perhaps you should exhibit that compassion in your choice of attacks. Good on you if you can pull it off, but tough on uke.

    tafftaz

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    Re: Landing someone hard and reaction

    Post by tafftaz on Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:42 am

    [quote="NBK"]Aren't you a relative beginner?  Thus competing with a relative beginner?  

    Spiking someone with uranage is a pretty tough on most anyone, much less a beginner. Perhaps you should exhibit that compassion in your choice of attacks. Good on you if you can pull it off, but tough on uke. [/quote)

    Very tough on uke.
    I see a lot of strong guys try this without even learning the throw. I have one Russian in class who is a new shodan and while some of his waza are ok, others are shocking. I have stopped him trying anything that he has not learned properly.
    Nage no kata is a fantastic way on how to learn how to do ura nage correctly and safely.

    Raj Venugopal

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    Re: Landing someone hard and reaction

    Post by Raj Venugopal on Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:11 am

    NBK wrote:Aren't you a relative beginner?  Thus competing with a relative beginner?  

    Spiking someone with uranage is a pretty tough on most anyone, much less a beginner. Perhaps you should exhibit that compassion in your choice of attacks. Good on you if you can pull it off, but tough on uke.

    Yes, I am relative beginner. He was also ikkyu. This throw was the ippon that made me shodan eligible. It was cleanly done, ie fid not fold uke. As I improve I will be able to adjust quicker. It was a right throw for the situation, perhaps yoko guruma...
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    Davaro

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    Re: Landing someone hard and reaction

    Post by Davaro on Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:21 am

    Concern? Yes
    Guilt? No

    Judo is a tough sport and sometimes hard falls happen.

    It is fair comment that perhaps uranage may have been harsh, but put in the same position again, and it comes naturally, one cant criticize you for that. After-all, you were taught the throw and if it was executed correctly, who are we to judge?

    I was once thrown with a so-called "drop-knee" seio by a big guy and came down almost on the crown on my head. I thought I had broken my neck! Thankfully, there was no injury but lets say there was, can anyone judge the guy for doing that? I think not.

    I say you reacted in probably the same way I would have. Show concern and once its "out of your hands" so-to-speak, return to your spot, seiza, facing away until told to do otherwise by the referee.

    On another occasion, I happened to choke-out uki and while the ref was trying to summons the medics, I assisted in positioning the poor chap correctly, airways open, stabilised head, etc.

    Yeah, I felt crap about it but that is simply part of judo.


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    Yabanjames

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    Re: Landing someone hard and reaction

    Post by Yabanjames on Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:56 pm

    Heisenberg wrote: When we bow and take the first step we absolve our opponent of responsibility for our safety.  
    Good heavens!  With all due respect, surely you don't really mean this, on reflection? Just a bit of a rhetorical slip, I hope?  Not meaning to patronize, but feel I have to note that ji ta kyo ei ("mutual welfare and benefit") is one of the two foundational principles of judo, and perhaps the fundamental philosophical pillar that differentiated judo from the budo that came before.  We are always responsible for our opponent's (though better to say "partner's", even in shiai) safety!  

    Which is not to say that when our partner gets hurt, it is necessarily our fault -- accidents happen, of course.  But we must always take care and retain our sense of responsibility, even when going all-out hammer and tongs.  "Tap or snap" and behaviour like it really has no place in judo -- even up to and including the Olympics, I'd maintain.


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    overthehill

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    Re: Landing someone hard and reaction

    Post by overthehill on Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:30 pm

    Heisenberg wrote:When we bow and take the first step we absolve our opponent of responsibility for our safety. That said, most Judo people are caring people.

    remind me to wear a helmet and have an ambulance parked right outside the dojo when we meet for randori....ouch!
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Landing someone hard and reaction

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:42 pm

    overthehill wrote:
    Heisenberg wrote:When we bow and take the first step we absolve our opponent of responsibility for our safety. That said, most Judo people are caring people.

    remind me to wear a helmet and have an ambulance parked right outside the dojo when we meet for randori....ouch!

    Been there, done that, caution even recommended for kata:




     Cool 


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    Heisenberg

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    Re: Landing someone hard and reaction

    Post by Heisenberg on Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:46 pm

    overthehill wrote:
    Heisenberg wrote:When we bow and take the first step we absolve our opponent of responsibility for our safety. That said, most Judo people are caring people.

    remind me to wear a helmet and have an ambulance parked right outside the dojo when we meet for randori....ouch!

    You left off the first part of my post when quoting where I said I would never intentionally hurt someone. We all realize that we are engaged in a very physical activity which involves skillfully propelling uke toward the floor with force, speed, and control (or strangling or hyperextending his arm). If you are lacking in any of those elements, or if they are out of balance, someone could get hurt; sometimes it is Tori, sometimes Uke. Sometimes we land funny or our ukemi is poor, or we aggravate our partner's old injury we couldn't have known about. It happens all the time. We are participating in an art which has been developed from combat, and we do so willingly and with the understanding that we may be injured despite the other person's best intentions.


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    Heisenberg

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    Re: Landing someone hard and reaction

    Post by Heisenberg on Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:52 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Been there, done that, caution even recommended for kata:




     Cool 

    What a uniquely Swiss interpretation of KNK. Interesting.


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