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    Putin and Judo

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    Gus

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    Putin and Judo

    Post by Gus on Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:20 am

    I was wondering if anyone else has noticed that Putins Judo sees to inform his political strategy. Perhaps it's just my imagination - but it seems to me he sometimes does large threatening things to provoke a reaction and then achieve some other , perhaps less obvious goal. There's been a few other things - has anyone else picked up on this ? Here's hoping he understands mutual benefit......
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    BillC

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    Re: Putin and Judo

    Post by BillC on Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:03 am

    Your question recently answered ... ?

    Yep, great guy, glad he's associated with judo.


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    noboru

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    Mr. president Putin does not understand judo well

    Post by noboru on Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:19 am

    I think, that Mr. president Putin does not understand judo well.

    The president of Russia speaks about judo often. He speaks about his training, about judo philosophy, about what judo teaches him, that his acting in politic are as judo principles.  Mr. Putin received 8.dan from IJF (International Judo Federation) - from president IJF Mariusz Vizer from Austria. We can see some photos or videos from his practice of judo, he is a co-author of  russian book about judo, etc.

    BUT I THINK, THAT Mr. president Putin DOES NOT UNDERSTAND judo WELL.

    Im trying to explain more:
    Jigoro Kano (founder of judo) statued two main quotes: the "Seiryoku zenyo" and "Jita kyoei" as main in his philosophy.

    精力善用 - "Seiryoku zenyo" (good using energy) is simplified term "Seiryoku zenyo Katsuyo" 精力最善活用, which means "The best application/using energy".
    精力- Seiyroku - "energy, power, vitality"
    最善- Saizen - "the best" - sai 最 (maximal, extraordinary, the highest, extremly), zen 善 (good, virtue, kindly)
    活用- Katsuyó - "practical application/using"

    精力善用- Seiryoku Zen'yo - (shortly say Zenyo - character zen 善 from Saizen a character 用 yó from Katsuyó). You can all translated as good (for good /welfare) using energy or as maximal efective using energy. Character 善 zen expressing good, welfare, virtue and it gives the joining of words next new meaning - altruism. The word GOOD IS IMPORTANT.

    Jigoro Kano used the term "Ju no ri" (principle of gentleness) from jujutsu and after next years of his study he replaced it with term "Seiryoku Zen'yo". The next Kanos main term "Jitta Kyoei" (mutual benefit) was result of Kanos reflecting about altruism from "Seiryoku Zen'yo". The best using energy is for good of other people.

    自他共栄 "Jitta Kyoei" (mutul benefit for self and other) is simplified term of 自他融和共栄 "Jitta yúwa kyóei" (mutual harmony and benefits for self and other)

    自他 - Jitta - "self and other"
    融和 - Yúwa - "harmony, (re)conciliation "
    共栄 - Kyóei - "mutual benefit"

    Some from my sources:
    Judo channel - explanation about judo
    http://www.judo-ch.jp/english/kanou_life/profile/index05.shtml

    Book: Jigoro Kano and the Kodokan - An Innovative response to modernisation, Kano Sensei Biographic Editorial Commitee a Alex Bennett, Kodokan Judo Institute, 2009,
    -----------------------

    My question: Where is the Putins altruism? Where is his mutual benefits (not only for Russia or him)?
    My answer: I dont know.

    My opinion:
    May be he uses efective his energy - not for good all. His posture is using good energy for him - it is egoistic. No good understanding of judo philosophy.

    Politicians speaks well about ideas, but their acting could be other. The ideas could be only empty words or words adapted for their benefit. Their situation could not be easy, but I think that the Mr. Putin does not understand the Kanos philosophy of judo.
    If he will understand the judo philosophy well or better, so he has to be act other in his oposite politics in Russia, in situation in the Ukraine - more freedom, peace, harmony - less prisons, weapons, violence.

    Sorry for my english.


    Last edited by noboru on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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    BillC

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    Re: Putin and Judo

    Post by BillC on Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:29 am

    noboru wrote:I think, that Mr. president Putin does not understand judo well. ...

    He's certainly not the only one.  Noboru ... please find anything of what you just wrote here:  http://www.intjudo.eu/History2?PHPSESSID=ha6ost6lfhpn3ip2omhua5bf51

    In fact, please find anything at all close to what you wrote on the entire web site. It exists as a single sentence, but you have to dig for it. The rest is glorification of ... well, that's a matter of opinion.

    The link to what seems to be the sole formal picture of Kano-shihan is broken ... the picture in front of almost every dojo ... seems symbolic that judo has broken with its past and been taken ... by the likes of Mr. Putin ... for uses of which the founder would may not have approved.


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    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
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    noboru

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    other source

    Post by noboru on Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:20 am

    Hi Bill,
    I dont know, why the this website of IJF doesnt content any informations about "Seiryoku Zenyo" and "Jitta Kyoei". May be it is not important for IJF. I found this IJF website -there is very similar informations:
    http://www.intjudo.eu/Judo_Corner/KANO_and_the_Begining_of_the_Judo_Movement/KANO_and_the_Begining_of_the_Judo_Movement1?Docmutat=0&PHPSESSID=ha6ost6lfhpn3ip2omhua5bf51

    from IJF pages wrote:According to Kano, the word judo had two connotations. One is judo in the wide sense and the other one is judo in the narrow sense.
    Judo in the narrow sense connotes that form which has evolved from the ancient military art of jujutsu. Kano stated : "Although Kodokan judo begins with the randori and the kata, unlike jujutsu, it is based on the principles of physical education and lays stress on the harmonious development of body muscles. The principle described as the way to use body and mind most efficiently is indeed the great principle of humanity. It is a moral doctrine." In other words it is judo in the wide sense.

    Jita kyoei
    Kano's ideals of judo and education consisted in "perfecting one's self and benefiting the world. He wrote : "In order to perfect myself, I do not for a moment forget to be of service to the world[..] I will dedicate my future activities to the service of society and for this purpose I shall strive to build up my character and form a firm foundation for my life.

    Seiryoku zenyo
    The second principle of Kano's philosophy of education was "the utmost use of one's energy or, in short, the maximum of efficiency. What Kano called energy did not simply imply physiological energy or physical vigor, it connoted the "living force" including both the spiritual and physical aspects of life.

    From M. Maekawa, Y. Hasegawa, "Studies on Jigoro Kano, Significance of His Ideals of Physical Education and Judo", Bulletin of the Association for the Scientific Studies of Judo, Kodokan, 1963.

    Please if you know more. Try to find in other sources than IJF website...

    I think that Kodokan website, judoinfo website or book from my previous post is good for start.

    Here is other interesting work:
    KEY PRINCIPLES OF JUDO
    (A lecture given by Syd Hoare 8th Dan to the EJU Foundation degree course at Bath University July 2005)
    http://improvemyjudo.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/key-principles-of-judo.pdf

    柔道の最高の目的 – jûdô no saikô no mokuteki
    http://www.shinryu.fr/881-judo-no-saiko-no-mokuteki.html

    The Way of Seiryoku Zenyo--Jita Kyoei in Judo By Shinichi Oimatsu (Kodokan)
    The Bulletin for the Scientific Study of Kodokan Judo, Volume VI, 1984

    http://judoinfo.com/seiryoku2.htm

    Denshi Jisho — Online Japanese dictionary
    http://jisho.org/kanji/details/
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    BillC

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    Re: Putin and Judo

    Post by BillC on Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:34 pm

    noboru wrote:

    Please if you know more. Try to find in other sources than IJF website...

    I think that Kodokan website, judoinfo website or book from my previous post is good for start.


    Noboru ... thank you very much.  I appreciate the resource links.  But actually I already have a small library of resources and friends much better informed than I to refer to.

    How many pages did you have to dig through to find the page you refer to? And it was in a "judo corner?" My specific observation is that Kano-shihan and the principles of judo are no longer "front and center" for this international organization.  What is most prominent is something else ... a "changeling" in English language literature ... and this guy is the most recognizable participant on the international scene.

    Makes me sick to think about it.


    _________________
    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling
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    NBK

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    Re: Putin and Judo

    Post by NBK on Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:54 pm

    BillC wrote:

    Noboru ... thank you very much.  I appreciate the resource links.  But actually I already have a small library of resources and friends much better informed than I to refer to.

    How many pages did you have to dig through to find the page you refer to?  And it was in a "judo corner?"  My specific observation is that Kano-shihan and the principles of judo are no longer "front and center" for this international organization.  What is most prominent is something else ... a "changeling" in English language literature ... and this guy is the most recognizable participant on the international scene.

    Makes me sick to think about it.
    What make you think that Kano shihan's principles are 'front and center' at the Kodokan?
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    noboru

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    Re: Putin and Judo

    Post by noboru on Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:28 pm

    Some quotes about Putins and judo...

    10th October 2012.
    THE 8TH DAN OF JUDO ATTRIBUTED TO VLADIMIR PUTIN

    http://www.intjudo.eu/News/cikk2294

    IJF wrote:"Being the Honorary President of the IJF, an Emeritus and recognized judoka, and having the stature of the Head of State of a preeminent country, Vladimir Putin is the perfect ambassador for our sport.

    "It is a great honor for our international federation, as well as for the entire judo community, to count among us a very high personality of his reputation and standing," said Marius L. Vizer, the IJF President, before adding: "President Putin represents a high expression of the Judo Values in the world."

    Interview with Yasuhiro Yamashita from year 2004
    http://www.yamashitayasuhiro.com/kouenroku/060308/english.html

    Interview with Yasuhiro Yamashita wrote:You are a prominent figure in the world of Japanese judo, and currently serve as the Director of Education at the International Judo Federation. Is the judo renaissance that you have described spreading across the globe?
    When I was elected as Director of Education, I made three pledges. The first was to make judo more dynamic and attractive as an Olympic sport. The second was to do my best to spread and develop judo worldwide. This means supporting less wealthy nations by dispatching coaches overseas and sending judo clothing for practice. Thirdly, I pledged to respect and promote the educational value of judo. In other words, I would like the world to recognize the spirit of judo that Jigoro Kano originally intended.
    With regard to the third pledge, there was an incident that gave me considerable pause for thought. This was a meeting with the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin. I met Mr. Putin with Japanese Prime Minister Koizumi at the 300th anniversary of the establishment of St. Petersburg in 2003. Our meeting took place at the dojo (judo hall) where President Putin used to practice in his younger days. The day after our meeting, Japan’s national broadcast service, NHK, interviewed President Putin. After having returned to Japan, I saw the interview and I was genuinely surprised. President Putin clearly stated, “Judo is not simply a sport, it is also my political philosophy. It is the basis of how to envisage the world, and of how to build relations with the opposition in politics”.
    The President also stated, “Judo changed my life. I trained physically in order to be a tough kid. I had tried boxing and wrestling, but finally I discovered judo. This was a turning point. Judo changed my way of thinking, my view of life, and my interactions with other people. I have a rather short temper, and was the type of person to react angrily. However, I learned that this does not bring desirable results in judo. It is important to control your mind because when you are calm and mentally balanced you can deal more effectively with any situation. These were the valuable lessons that I learned from judo.”
    I watched this video many times with a feeling of warmth. When I compared myself with President Putin, I thought that as I had reached the top of the competitive world of judo I was far stronger than President Putin who had only achieved the black-belt, sixth grade. However, I realized that when it came to the essence of judo, President Putin had learned far more than I had. What was important was not only to master the techniques of judo, but to translate the lessons of judo into one’s own life and put that philosophy to practical use. This is in line with the ideas of Jigoro Kano.
    Meeting President Putin confirmed my belief that it is important to promote the renaissance of judo around the world, but that it is also necessary to learn from overseas judo experts who have fully understood the philosophy of the sport.
    There has been a certain amount of arrogance in Japan in thinking that because judo was invented there, then everyone else should follow Japan’s example. That kind of thinking needs changing if we are to develop judo in the future.

    What then is the essence of judo?
    Jigoro Kano expressed it by saying “make good use of your strength” and “look to the mutual benefit of yourself and of others.” This means that we should make the best use of our own energy to do the right thing, to respect others, and to build a better society for oneself and for others. The essence of the spirit of judo is contained here.
    At the Genova Summit in 2001, Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi of Italy gave each leader a present of a book entitled Judo: History, Theory, Practice. One of the three contributing writers of this original Russian work was President Putin. The message accompanying the book from the Prime Minister read, “The spirit advocated by Master Jigoro Kano, that recommends making good use of energy and looking to the mutual prosperity of oneself and others, is the spirit that is expected of the leaders that are gathered at the summit.”
    I wonder if we can go so far as to say that this spirit that originated in Japan has already crossed over from the judo world to influence other countries, and has achieved a common position for mankind?

    This quotes are older. Putin has problems with freedom in Russia a long time. His political solution from Ukraina are newest. Do the people as Vizer or Yamashita have the same opinion about Putin still?
    Putin and his joining judo philosophy with his political philosophy is not good for judo understanding and menaing for public peoples.
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Putin and Judo

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:18 am

    noboru wrote:Some quotes about Putins and judo...

    10th October 2012.
    THE 8TH DAN OF JUDO ATTRIBUTED TO VLADIMIR PUTIN

    http://www.intjudo.eu/News/cikk2294

    IJF wrote:"Being the Honorary President of the IJF, an Emeritus and recognized judoka, and having the stature of the Head of State of a preeminent country, Vladimir Putin is the perfect ambassador for our sport.

    "It is a great honor for our international federation, as well as for the entire judo community, to count among us a very high personality of his reputation and standing," said Marius L. Vizer, the IJF President, before adding: "President Putin represents a high expression of the Judo Values in the world."

    Hello Noboru,

    You may be interested to know that Vladimir Putin isn't the only president who received a very high dan-rank.

    Also President Roosevelt was given the rank of 8th dan. He had been dead for 88 years by then, yes, and it is noteworthy that when he died he wasn't a 6th or 7th dan but a 1st kyû which in itself as far as evidence suggests ... was already rather 'generous'. At least Putin, despite his rather mechanic way of moving and performing techniques, was a real black belt holder who at young age participated in competition, won some and footage exists of him actually working out on a tatami. Putin before was also given a 6th dan by the Kôdôkan albeit honorary, which therefore should not have been/be the basis for further promotion.

    Here's link for you to ponder about:

    http://goltzjudo.com/roosevelt.htm

    Oh, and buy the way, Barack H. Obama holds a 1st dan in Taekwondô though he has never set foot on any tatami. Then again, he also holds a Nobel Peace Prize, which so far not to many people can grasp why.

    Shocking ? Well ... didn't Kanô Risei and Kanô Yukimitsu, resp. hold a 2nd dan and 1st kyû ? When and where they trained, who their teacher was, and when or where they won tsukinami or kôhaku shiai or passed a test, I don't know, and as far as I am aware, nobody does ...

    Whether all these people were exponents of Kanô-shihan's principles, I am not sure ... I believe that the Nobel Peace Prize winner ordered about a 100 cruise missiles to be dumped on Lybia (civil losses mentioned here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya#Civilian_losses), is training Syrian terrorists in Jordan to overthrow a foreign government, and likely many other non-peace initiatives that are top-secret and none of us even knows about.

    Then again, as easy as it is to criticize any of these people, I am not sure that anyone can remotely picture being in such a position holding CEO responsibility of a world power with all the complex political and policy intricacies, commercial and military pressure, strategic initiatives and opportunities that pressure these people to do things that are hard to swallow for the common men in the street or most ordinary people. I certainly would not want to be in the position of any of these people, irrespective of the perks that come with the job.


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    BillC

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    Re: Putin and Judo

    Post by BillC on Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:54 am

    NBK wrote:
    What make you think that Kano shihan's principles are 'front and center' at the Kodokan?

    Dear better informed friend, did I say they are?


    _________________
    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling
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    noboru

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    Putin and Vizer have wrong ideas about judo philosophy

    Post by noboru on Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:35 am

    Hello CK, thank you for your link.

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Then again, as easy as it is to criticize any of these people, I am not sure that anyone can remotely picture being in such a position holding CEO responsibility of a world power with all the complex political and policy intricacies, commercial and military pressure, strategic initiatives and opportunities that pressure these people to do things that are hard to swallow for the common men in the street or most ordinary people. I certainly would not want to be in the position of any of these people, irrespective of the perks that come with the job.
    Yes, I agree with you. I have same opinion as you.
     
    I tried to point only, what could be original meaning of Jigoro Kano philosophy (the meaning of kanji Seyroku Zenyo and Jitta Kyoei) and what Putin do in politics in Russia, he talks that judo is his political philosophy. I think that there is contradiction .... and judo philosophy has other content.
    Yasuhiro Yamashita wrote:President Putin clearly stated, “Judo is not simply a sport, it is also my political philosophy. It is the basis of how to envisage the world, and of how to build relations with the opposition in politics”.

    I think that his political philosophy and actions are out of judo philosophy as expressed Jigoro Kano and Yasuhiro Yamashita sums up to few sentences very nice.  
    Yasuhiro Yamashita wrote:
    Jigoro Kano expressed it by saying “make good use of your strength” and “look to the mutual benefit of yourself and of others.” This means that we should make the best use of our own energy to do the right thing, to respect others, and to build a better society for oneself and for others. The essence of the spirit of judo is contained here.

    Sad message is, that president IJF Marius L. Vizer talked this:
    president IJF Marius L. Vizer wrote:"President Putin represents a high expression of the Judo Values in the world."
    It is bad dream. He speaks about judo values and he has not the basic knowledges about it.  Which high expression of Judo Values does president Putin represent? I dont understand ...

    We can point in this forum only, that Putin and Vizer have wrong ideas about judo philosophy. Some of readers of this thread could it help in creating of his opinions about expressing of president Putin and where is a reality.
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    seatea

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    Re: Putin and Judo

    Post by seatea on Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:31 am

    noboru wrote:This quotes are older. Putin has problems with freedom in Russia a long time. His political solution from Ukraina are newest. Do the people as Vizer or Yamashita have the same opinion about Putin still?

    People cannot claim naivety about Putin in 2004 - he had already revealed himself to be a loathsome individual in his handling of the Second Chechen War. This was in the first years of the new millennium.

    It is extremely disappointing to see a figure such as Yamashita praising Putin.
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    finarashi

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    Re: Putin and Judo

    Post by finarashi on Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:49 pm

    One should be very careful in separating politics from Judo. IMHO several members here claim that "western values" especially "US international politics" are equal to Judo values. Maybe some of the more knowledgeable people could discuss this.

    In Judo we try to conquer the larger adversary using minimum force. Look at Putin's direction. There is Nato; his black nemesis from way back. Nato is accquiring foothold one country after one country and closing on Russia. What is your solution on this?

    Lets look at US solution on similar question. In a nearby country that gained independence a decade before, the former pro US governement was replaced with pro Soviet governement. Answer: US invaded Grenada 1983, an independent country.
    A nearby independent governement does not hold similar views to US. Solution; put economic blockade in Place, try to overthrow the governement. Continue blockade even if majority of the wordl nations are against it. The nation is Cuba. Where is mutual prosperity in US politics against Cuba. Would not trading and having normal relationships with Cuba be more prosperous to both countries?

    Lets look how US takes notice of international opinion;
    - as member of UN security council it blocks dozens of majority resolutions of UN and promptly ignores them
    - it has withold from international agreements that could later condem some use of US military force
    So basically Putin looks at the adversary and sees that it behaves like a bully in the playground ignoring all and every advice and bluntly stating; as I am the biggest I can do whatever I please and if you don't like it the I'll punch you in the nose. And then the members here in this forum state that Putin should roll over and let the bully win?

    Naturally if we follow the highest principles of Judo then Putin should have been able to avoid military conflict in the first place.

    Again we should try to separte the upholding of good things; democracy, free speech, equal rights, .. from bad things like making war on other nations.



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    noboru

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    Putin's judo

    Post by noboru on Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:20 pm

    Finarashi,  I agree with you too.

    Here is video with Putin's Yakusoku geiko, it is my last post in this thread.
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    BillC

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    Re: Putin and Judo

    Post by BillC on Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:37 am

    finarashi wrote:One should be very careful in separating politics from Judo. IMHO several members here claim that "western values" especially "US international politics" are equal to Judo values. Maybe some of the more knowledgeable people could discuss this.

    No, I don't read that here at all.  You seem to be the one who brought up the "US versus NATO" thing.

    I simply question whether or not this is an individual who should be a prominent face of judo, the face of judo already having become harder to recognize as the years pass. As noted he is praised as "... a high expression of the Judo Values in the world?"  Really?  

    The rest ... edited. I'm done on this one too.


    _________________
    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling

    hedgehogey

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    Re: Putin and Judo

    Post by hedgehogey on Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:36 am

    Would you look at that, me and Finarashi agree on a thing.

    hedgehogey

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    Re: Putin and Judo

    Post by hedgehogey on Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:38 am

    seatea wrote:
    noboru wrote:This quotes are older. Putin has problems with freedom in Russia a long time. His political solution from Ukraina are newest. Do the people as Vizer or Yamashita have the same opinion about Putin still?

    People cannot claim naivety about Putin in 2004 - he had already revealed himself to be a loathsome individual in his handling of the Second Chechen War. This was in the first years of the new millennium.

    It is extremely disappointing to see a figure such as Yamashita praising Putin.

    So are you "embodying judo principles" by going to bat for Chechen Wahhabis? As for "problems with freedom", if you're a citizen of the state with the highest prisoner population in history, you should clean your own house before you Queer Eye your neighbor's.

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