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    practice the day before a shiai

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    overthehill

    Posts : 34
    Join date : 2014-04-07

    practice the day before a shiai

    Post by overthehill on Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:24 pm

    hi all,

    first post to this forum.
    I look forward to participating more in the coming months.

    As of this April I was appointed to manage my school's judo club.
    It is a strange appointment for a foreigner living in Japan, I suppose.

    This is my first experience as an instructor and I have a question I would like your input on:

    For students, aged 15-22, what kind of training would you recommend a day before a moderately important shiai (prefectural tournament)?

    I know for elite athletes that they probably wouldn't do much if any training, but we are talking about high school students with vastly different goals.
    In my particular case, there is a 2-day tournament coming; a team tournament on day 1 and individual tournament on day 2.

    I'm less concerned about them winning as I am about them staying healthy and progressing in their judo.
    They have such a packed tournament schedule that taking days off before a shiai would really reduce their practice time.

    I am also thinking that lecturing and teaching new techniques might not be all that great a day before a shiai either.

    So, with this information, do any of you have any comments or resources you could recommend?
    Thanks in advance



    Cichorei Kano

    Posts : 1948
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Age : 856
    Location : the Holy See

    Re: practice the day before a shiai

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:45 pm

    overthehill wrote:hi all,

    first post to this forum.
    I look forward to participating more in the coming months.

    As of this April I was appointed to manage my school's judo club.
    It is a strange appointment for a foreigner living in Japan, I suppose.

    This is my first experience as an instructor and I have a question I would like your input on:

    For students, aged 15-22, what kind of training would you recommend a day before a moderately important shiai (prefectural tournament)?

    I know for elite athletes that they probably wouldn't do much if any training, but we are talking about high school students with vastly different goals.
    In my particular case, there is a 2-day tournament coming; a team tournament on day 1 and individual tournament on day 2.

    I'm less concerned about them winning as I am about them staying healthy and progressing in their judo.
    They have such a packed tournament schedule that taking days off before a shiai would really reduce their practice time.

    I am also thinking that lecturing and teaching new techniques might not be all that great a day before a shiai either.

    So, with this information, do any of you have any comments or resources you could recommend?
    Thanks in advance



    No anaerobic training, no interval or speed training, nothing that requires maximal power or explosive power.

    Light uchi-komi at their own rhythm, souple movement kakari-geiko, yaku-soku-geiko, light aerobic submaximal exercices.


    _________________


    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."

    overthehill

    Posts : 34
    Join date : 2014-04-07

    Re: practice the day before a shiai

    Post by overthehill on Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:50 pm

    thank you for the prompt response.
    i was thinking along the same lines.

    the follow-up question would be, after the tournament, what type of practice?

    they have back to back tournaments on weekends and practice 5 days per week.
    that means potentially 21 consecutive days of judo.
    would it be good to give them a day off all together following a tournament, or light aerobic practice to help with recovery?

    samsmith2424

    Posts : 94
    Join date : 2013-01-03

    Re: practice the day before a shiai

    Post by samsmith2424 on Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:22 pm

    I would like to suggest haveing a video made of their performance and then analysing it.

    I have never done it with a large group so maybe someone believes it is impractical, however I have videoed, (I get someone else to do it for me) and analyzed my player's (my son's) performance many times. I always include the final rei so I can see clearly the score.

    I find this very useful. At times I have also argued with him about what has happened and then it can be seen in the video that neither of us were correct in our memory.

    I would expect with a class of judo players many would make the same mistakes. With this information you can plan future trainings.

    samsmith2424

    Posts : 94
    Join date : 2013-01-03

    Re: practice the day before a shiai

    Post by samsmith2424 on Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:30 pm

    I know that after an important competition my son would need at least a day off from randori training. He may need longer for various reasons, including exhaustion. It would depend on how many fights he has had and how stressed he was. I have always erred on the side of caution as I did not want him to over train. My question always was (and is) to him. Do you feel like training? And if he did not feel like it then he would not do it. I try to use mood to judge if he has over reached or not. (He is motivated so I know that he is not just being lazy when he says he does not feel like training.)

    BillC

    Posts : 806
    Join date : 2012-12-28
    Location : Vista, California

    Re: practice the day before a shiai

    Post by BillC on Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:17 am

    OTH ... pleased to meet you. Perhaps we can meet up with some current and previous E-Judo/Judo Forum members in Tokyo at this year's Grand Slam/Kano Cup?

    In both cases you note ... young bodies need rest. Heck, old bodies need rest. Minds need rest as well. Sleep is my advice.

    Other random comments:

    Personally, I had experience with a coach ... a former Olympian ... that figured the team should train harder and harder right up to the Olympic trials. Our team was visibly tired at the event and one received a very serious injury that ended his Olympic dream and quite nearly his life.

    As you are probably aware ... but because you asked ... the time scales you are talking about are not long enough to make an appreciable improvement in the performance of the athletes. Six weeks out is the shortest realistic time I think. The day before a competition? Not much training at all. Heck, send the older ones out for a sports massage. With Youtube available a team can spend a lot of time in the last week warming up, doing a light practice and then kicking back to watch video of the probable opposing teams and talking about them (and what your team is going to do to them).

    Sure, it does happen that someone sees something and then goes out immediately and does it, but that is a rare and unpredictable event, and it comes on top of months and months of conditioning and study. A distraction, you are living in the land that figures that there is no judo problem that 500 more uchikomi won't fix, and you may feel some pressure to take that approach (see NBK's related post). There will be a temptation, because of nerves and because of culture ... especially perhaps the one in which you are immersed, to work "harder and harder" right up to the day of competition. Yes, students should have enough exercise to remain nimble mentally and physically, to reduce stress, to maintain flexibility ... but they are not going to gain anything by being underfed, tired and sore going into a competition.

    Another danger besides being burned out, many have observed that serious injuries tend to occur withing a couple weeks of a big event. Just last night one of our students showed up with a jacked elbow ... didn't tap at the MMA gym ... Nationals are in two weeks. Don't know why, but it is often, if it were me I'd add structure to the randori to try to prevent a random knee destruction. Make sure in each case that the uke knows he's supposed to fall down. Stay way from that stupid MMA crap in any case.

    On the other end, I shake my head at coaches that give long explanations and hands-on lectures to kids right after they come off the mat. And I saw example after example at last Sunday's tournament. Perhaps they justify it by saying that it is "fresh in the minds" of the coach and the athlete. Really one remembers little walking off the mat, so this is just a headwash for the coach ... sometimes an abusive one at that. Pat them on the back, make sure their owies are iced and wrapped, have a fun celebratory meal with the team .... chankonabe? ... get back to "what happened" another time. Jesus rose from the tomb on the third day ... that's about right for a teen to get back to a normal training routine.

    Side note: A serious coach, even sometimes ones who have video as a back up, sits in the chair with a clipboard. He or she records the name of the opponent and key physical fearures ... handedness for example. For both players he records things like attacks per minute and the name of the techniques which are successful or nearly so for both players ... all the measurable features of the match. Things like attacks will allow to feed back important information to the student during the matte ... information that is actually useful ... for example "your opponent hasn't attacked for 30 seconds, make sure you do!" Hayward Nishioka has an excellent clipboard worksheet for the amateur coach, if you buy his book it comes included.


    _________________
    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling

    Stacey

    Posts : 541
    Join date : 2013-01-17
    Location : your worst nightmares

    Re: practice the day before a shiai

    Post by Stacey on Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:47 am

    I'm all for the easy practice before and after, and sports massage after. Emphasis on staying supple and elastic, earning a light sweat, and proper cool-down. Emphasis on stretching.

    I'd also consider mental training - visualization, relaxation, pre-fight prep. Team building can be done with team dinners. Working on goals - what exactly are the goals for this tournament? What are the goals for this group of tournaments? How do global goals break down for each tournament. Journaling matches - what worked, what didn't, how the athlete felt, etc - with a nice group of shiai coming up, they'll be able to see trends in their own performance.

    Cichorei Kano

    Posts : 1948
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Age : 856
    Location : the Holy See

    Re: practice the day before a shiai

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:52 am

    overthehill wrote:thank you for the prompt response.
    i was thinking along the same lines.

    the follow-up question would be, after the tournament, what type of practice?

    they have back to back tournaments on weekends and practice 5 days per week.
    that means potentially 21 consecutive days of judo.
    would it be good to give them a day off all together following a tournament, or light aerobic practice to help with recovery?

    Contrary to what you may think sounds logical, the jûdôka should NOT take the day off after competition. Jûdô shiai tends to produce considerable DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) because one promptly has to go from zero to periods of maximal exertion, and because it involves eccentric movements because you actively resist things your opponent does who at times may be able to still force through that what you are resisting. Therefore routine practice is necessary to prevent worsening of DOMS and to a quick glycogen replacement. So, the day after shiai have practice but have it relatively light like the day before shiai but somewhat heavier including supple randori. Exception is injuries. Some jûdôka may have injuries that are the day after the shiai difficult to estimate how bad they are. If that is the case, then those jûdôka may elect to take a more cautious approach.

    Yes, for jûdôka who have 21 consecutive days of jûdô it is good to have a day off, so that they crave more jûdô, but don't pick the day after the tournament to do that. Also, when they have a day off from jûdô, let it not be a day off from sport. Instead implement some fun dynamic sport activity.


    _________________


    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."

    overthehill

    Posts : 34
    Join date : 2014-04-07

    Re: practice the day before a shiai

    Post by overthehill on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:41 am

    samsmith2424 wrote:I would like to suggest  haveing a video made of their performance and then analysing it.


    will be ordering a video camera with my research fund.
    just have to justify how the purchase of a video camera would be utilized in my own academic research.
    should be able to come up with something..

    thanks for the comment.

    overthehill

    Posts : 34
    Join date : 2014-04-07

    Re: practice the day before a shiai

    Post by overthehill on Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:09 pm

    somehow my other responses didnt make it through this morning.

    thanks for all of the advice.

    BillC made some very good comments regarding social expectations. things dont change quickly in japan and i am trying to be careful not to rock the boat too much. the previous arrangement at the school was that they had an agreement with the prefectural police department, who supplied the school with instructors. budget cuts did away with that arrangement and so now i am left with a fairly good judo club. they are a large step down from the top flight schools like tokai, but they are known for judo in the prefecture. i think it might be a big risk to take to change everything overnight and risk having people turn on me in my first year. im far less accomplished and experienced than the previous sensei.

    CK, i imagined that doing something the following day would be good. i picked up on that during the tour de france where every cyclist does a training ride on the two rest days in order to aid recovery. im going to try and spend a day this week teaching technique and also going over the rules.

    this was the first tournament in our prefecture that used the new rules...horrendous. its really confusing for 15 year olds....heck it was confusing for all the sensei at the referees meeting before the shiai began.

    i do like some of the new rules, like added time for ne-waza and continuation outside of the shiai jo, but boy are some of the things confusing....they were talking about disqualifying a team because the patch on the arm was too big if you included the mizuno logo in that as well. they couldnt decide what proper procedure was and they eventually let the team compete (not that i think it was ever in any serious danger), but that teams either has to now cut out their patch, or buy new gi.....talk about a great move for the manufacturers...they must be having a field day.

    i was thinking entering the kokutai yosen just for kicks and so i could see my friends, but now that ill have to buy a new gi just to compete, forget it....dont have that kind of money.

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