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    De ashi harai?

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    Freelancer

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    De ashi harai?

    Post by Freelancer on Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:25 am



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    Stacey

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    Re: De ashi harai?

    Post by Stacey on Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:03 am

    more of a kosoto gari at the basic technique. Still don't know what his bizarre set up is - did he bother explaining that?

    Freelancer

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    Re: De ashi harai?

    Post by Freelancer on Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:38 am

    Stacey wrote: Still don't know what his bizarre set up is - did he bother explaining that?

    I know as much as you, if you`ve seen the entire clip. Neutral


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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: De ashi harai?

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:55 am

    Stacey wrote:more of a kosoto gari at the basic technique.  Still don't know what his bizarre set up is - did he bother explaining that?

    Current IJF competitive style more often than not starts off with kumite-arasoi ("grip-fighting") instead of simply allowing each other to grip. Prompt attacks for ippon upon gripping have existed forever. Before the grip-fighting kind of thing started you could sometimes see in highly technical jûdôka where indeed someone would be swept upon grip for ippon with de-ashi-barai. I still saw this done as recent as the 2007 World Championships in Rio where also Rondadori was participating. Guillaume Elmont from the Netherlands did it on someone. Elmont is a very technical jûdôka indeed. Nevertheless, the current IJF style makes true de-ashi-barai more difficult, and ko-soto-gari more likely. Suzuki Kenji was a couple of times successful with similar techniques too. By the way strictly speaking there is also a difference between de-ashi-barai and ashi-barai although the two terminologies do not officially occur as names of throws in the Kôdôkan system. De 'de' in "de-ashi-barai" comes from the verb "deru" which means to depart. So it means that de-ashi-barai is carried out on a foot that has started to move. So strictly speaking when you would swipe someones feet from underneath if that person is in a stationary position without his feet moving, would be ashi-barai and not de-ashi-barai, but as said, these separate terminologies do not exist within the Kôdôkan system, which is the reason we officially refer to both options as "de-ashi-barai". They are both, of course, still different from ko-soto-gari, which you obviously also had noticed per your response.

    The clip that was posted is a bag o bric-à-brac especially in the footage at the beginning, which really contains different techniques, but it seems its author/editor wants to sell everything under the same name, if I correctly understand. On the other hand, to be fair to the author, it may also be that he says, "Look, I am not hung up on names, this is simply about how to attack from a certain angle and grip and make use of the opponent's support leg" or something else. After all it is a possible to write or teach techniques from jûdô but discarding traditional Kôdôkan pedagogy or didactic organization


    Last edited by Cichorei Kano on Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:44 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Steve Leadbeater

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    Re: De ashi harai?

    Post by Steve Leadbeater on Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:22 am

    It looked........sort of...................average, to me.

    judoratt

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    Re: De ashi harai?

    Post by judoratt on Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:45 am

    Why dosen't any one use judo videos all we see is BJJ MMA and chibata. If you want to learn judo please reference judo videos. The instruction is rudimentary at it's best. JMHO

    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: De ashi harai?

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:25 am

    judoratt wrote:Why dosen't any one use judo videos all we see is BJJ MMA and chibata. If you want to learn judo please reference judo videos.  The instruction is rudimentary at it's best. JMHO

    You make a very good point. This does indeed seem to be a new evolution. Could it be because judo is not judo anymore and what is done on the IJF scene today oftentimes so different from classical judo ? I mean ... I remember decades ago for the first time seeing the Mifune film on 16 mm reels. I was absolutely stunned by what I saw. I wanted to be able to do that too one day ! Even though you didn't really see anyone else with skills like that it was obvious people were striving to be as technical as possible, at least most of them. But if you compare the judo of many of the masters and champions of the past we admired with what is done today is just so different. How long does it take to master a good seoi-nage or harai-goshi ? Quite a while, and until you do, you usually can't score with it. But how long does it take to learn a "take-down" so that you can drag someone on to the tatami ? One class. Sure, one won't be proficient, but one will be able "to catch" someone with it, even some people with better technique than oneself. Maybe that's behind that evolution. I


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    overthehill

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    Re: De ashi harai?

    Post by overthehill on Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:07 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Stacey wrote:more of a kosoto gari at the basic technique.  Still don't know what his bizarre set up is - did he bother explaining that?

    Suzuki Kenji was a couple of times successful with similar techniques too.

    keiji suzuki did indeed have a superb deashibarai.
    i went to watch a national team training camp just prior to his retirement.
    he spent so much time working on the timing.
    i was surprised to see a judoka of his calibur putting in so much extra time into his tokui waza.

    at the time, the other heavyweights at the camp, though champions in their own right, were nowhere near the level of suzuki in terms of technique.


    samsmith2424

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    Re: De ashi harai?

    Post by samsmith2424 on Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:09 pm

    overthehill wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Stacey wrote:more of a kosoto gari at the basic technique.  Still don't know what his bizarre set up is - did he bother explaining that?

    Suzuki Kenji was a couple of times successful with similar techniques too.

    keiji suzuki did indeed have a superb deashibarai.
    i went to watch a national team training camp just prior to his retirement.
    he spent so much time working on the timing.
    i was surprised to see a judoka of his calibur putting in so much extra time into his tokui waza.

    at the time, the other heavyweights at the camp, though champions in their own right, were nowhere near the level of suzuki in terms of technique.


    How did he train deashi barai and its timing?

    This is one technique I find training hard to organise for.

    overthehill

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    Re: De ashi harai?

    Post by overthehill on Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:09 pm

    ^^ CK could probably explain this better than i.
    i dont know the terminology to explain it adequately.

    he always did moving uchikomi, and he and his partner had already memorized the steps.
    it almost looks like choreographed ballroom dancing with a throw at the end. there may be video of this on youtube somewhere. its quite a common way to practice deashibarai...

    perhaps CK or a more experienced sensei could chime in?

    Raj Venugopal

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    Re: De ashi harai?

    Post by Raj Venugopal on Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:59 pm

    One of our instructors did a deashi harai class last week. He is an incredible judoka- his judo mind is like a chess super-computer. It was like magic. In one of the versions he taught, uke is thrown into the spot from which he took one step back from. So the throw is not actually on a 90 degree angle (i.e. straight to the side), but rather approximately 120 degrees. Anyway, he says just repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.... Then repeat...

    tafftaz

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    Re: De ashi harai?

    Post by tafftaz on Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:32 am

    http://youtu.be/4dDsRiQoVmY

    http://youtu.be/tVW4_e0To5M

    http://youtu.be/tVW4_e0To5M

    Jean Luc Barre showing multiple versions of ashi barai

    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: De ashi harai?

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:33 am

    Regarding the "deru/depart" aspect of De Ashi Barai vs "Ashi Barai", how much movement is necessary to separate the two as techniques, or, from Ko Soto Gari? I would imagine it's a pretty fine line.

    The video is interesting. The author has discovered how to use the postural and weight distribution errors of his opponents to do the "front foot sweep". Many of the throws illustrated were the equivalent of essentially throwing a white belt or little kid who shifts her weight towards the front foot and keeps it there.

    Basically, all tori has to do is either catch normal movement (uke has to shift weight off the front foot a bit to move), or, induce uke to move a bit and then go for the front foot/leg with an sweeping attack of some sort (using some hand work as well, of course...it takes some skill to do even against unsuspecting uke).



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    Ryvai

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    Re: De ashi harai?

    Post by Ryvai on Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:28 pm

    tafftaz wrote:http://youtu.be/4dDsRiQoVmY

    http://youtu.be/tVW4_e0To5M

    http://youtu.be/tVW4_e0To5M

    Jean Luc Barre showing multiple versions of ashi barai

    He is one of my favorite technichians, it looks so fluid. Very beautiful judo Smile

    samsmith2424

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    Re: De ashi harai?

    Post by samsmith2424 on Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:09 pm

    Ryvai wrote:
    tafftaz wrote:http://youtu.be/4dDsRiQoVmY

    http://youtu.be/tVW4_e0To5M

    http://youtu.be/tVW4_e0To5M

    Jean Luc Barre showing multiple versions of ashi barai

    He is one of my favorite technichians, it looks so fluid. Very beautiful judo Smile

    Do you know anything more about him?

    tafftaz

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    Re: De ashi harai?

    Post by tafftaz on Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:35 am

    Jean Luc Barre, Kodokan 6th Dan I believe. That is really all I know about him, other than he has very good technique and makes some very good videos on youtube.
    There are a lot of profiles on the web about him but mostly in French, not my native language.


    Last edited by tafftaz on Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:09 am; edited 1 time in total

    Stacey

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    Re: De ashi harai?

    Post by Stacey on Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:47 am

    https://www.facebook.com/jeanluc.barthe1?fref=ts&ref=br_tf

    friend him on facebook - keep up with his club and teaching and other goings on

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