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    Throw from the ground?

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    medo

    Posts : 276
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Throw from the ground?

    Post by medo on Sun May 11, 2014 8:24 am

    Just watched this

    http://judo.com.gr/2014/05/judo-grand-slam-baku-2014-final-70kg-polling-kim-ned-conway-sally-gbr/

    What do you think score or not?

    NBK

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    Location : Tokyo, Japan

    Re: Throw from the ground?

    Post by NBK on Sun May 11, 2014 9:24 am

    The turnover at 2:10 is hardly mentionable as judo but that is the sort of thing that wins too often internationally.  Perhaps the influence of wrestling in some styles that is a point.  I think in Japan it would not pass muster.

    I couldn't see the armbar clearly but was surprised that didn't work.

    BillC

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    Re: Throw from the ground?

    Post by BillC on Sun May 11, 2014 9:45 am

    Hansokumake blue at 4:36 ... in some people's view of judo both ladies should have to sit down ... but in Olympic jacket wrestling there must be a winner.

    Good job on the commentary Sheldon. I don't know how you keep it up year after year.


    _________________
    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling

    medo

    Posts : 276
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    Re: Throw from the ground?

    Post by medo on Sun May 11, 2014 10:22 am

    BillC wrote:Hansokumake blue at 4:36 ... in some people's view of judo both ladies should have to sit down ... but in Olympic jacket wrestling there must be a winner.

    Good job on the commentary Sheldon.  I don't know how you keep it up year after year.

    The hook to me is legit it could not be used to throw as in Kawazu-gake. Perhaps desperation knowing that was a bad attack, why blue would attack the rear leg without kuzushi and controlling the top half is beyond me at this level..

    So many ground opportunities missed not tightening up everything before applying locks at least the coach can hopefully sort that?

    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Throw from the ground?

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sun May 11, 2014 10:43 am

    NBK wrote:The turnover at 2:10 is hardly mentionable as judo but that is the sort of thing that wins too often internationally.  Perhaps the influence of wrestling in some styles that is a point.  I think in Japan it would not pass muster.

    I couldn't see the armbar clearly but was surprised that didn't work.

    Yeah, that should not have scored. It was a throw, the uke turned totally to the front, the tori kept pulling her into the ground. That had nothing to do with a throwing technique.

    The later action past 04:40 is something entirely different. Polling countered well, but both girls clearly could lift their legs very high. In the end though Conway went off the ground completely. The camera angle does not allow to fully appreciate the action. Conway's upperbody clearly goes with her chest turned to the tatami, but that does not necessarily mean her lower body lands full-front; it could or it could not, that why there are judges.

    Don't be surprised those armbars don't work. Those girls are made of elastic or have triple-jointed arms. Women and estrogens, you should take some (estrogens), you'd be amazed what you could do. There are some side-effects, some good (less shaving), some not so good ...

    I would love to do randori with those girls, really tall, quite some room for coaching input, brings back some reminiscences of times long past.



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    nomoremondays

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    Re: Throw from the ground?

    Post by nomoremondays on Sun May 11, 2014 1:36 pm

    In judo, no score. In reality, blue should consider herself lucky she got to fight an extra three minutes and was not awarded an ippon against.

    /sarcasm

    BillC

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    Re: Throw from the ground?

    Post by BillC on Sun May 11, 2014 2:51 pm

    medo wrote:

    The hook to me is legit it could not be used to throw as in Kawazu-gake. Perhaps desperation knowing that was a bad attack, why blue would attack the rear leg without kuzushi and controlling the top half is beyond me at this level ...

    Nope.  That ain't it.  Hint:  Look at blue's right hand.


    _________________
    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling

    finarashi

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    Re: Throw from the ground?

    Post by finarashi on Sun May 11, 2014 4:58 pm

    In modern view the throw was continuous and in modern view you get a score. If you get a score then waza-ari is correct. You used to see this a lot at -60 kg but hey now bigger ladies have learnt this too. I agree that whether this is a Judo throw is debatable. One allowed this as at -60 kg this was perhaps the only way to score.
    BillC, if you try to be funny and refer to the grabbing below belt rules then you are late (as usual) and misinformed (as usual) as rules have changed again Smile So twice no hansoku; new and older rules both.


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    BillC

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    Re: Throw from the ground?

    Post by BillC on Sun May 11, 2014 5:35 pm

    finarashi wrote:In modern view the throw was continuous and in modern view you get a score. If you get a score then waza-ari is correct. You used to see this a lot at -60 kg but hey now bigger ladies have learnt this too. I agree that whether this is a Judo throw is debatable. One allowed this as at -60 kg this was perhaps the only way to score.  
    BillC, if you try to be funny and refer to the grabbing below belt rules then you are late (as usual) and misinformed  (as usual) as rules have changed again :)So twice no hansoku; new and older rules both.

    Oh? When did this change?

    "Penalized with Hansoku-make:
    o Leg Grab: All attacks or blocking with one or two hands or with one or two arms
    below the belt in Tachi-Waza will be penalized by Hansoku-make. It is possible to
    grip the leg only when the two opponents are in a clear Newaza position and the
    Tachi-Waza action has stopped."

    I'd say that grabbing the bottom of the apron area of the judogi to try to finish a throw ... and then holding that grip to try to prevent being tossed backwards ... but then again I am usually misinformed. I'd love to be wrong, because it's an excellent grip in a pinch.


    _________________
    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling

    medo

    Posts : 276
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Throw from the ground?

    Post by medo on Sun May 11, 2014 5:44 pm

    BillC wrote:
    medo wrote:

    The hook to me is legit it could not be used to throw as in Kawazu-gake. Perhaps desperation knowing that was a bad attack, why blue would attack the rear leg without kuzushi and controlling the top half is beyond me at this level ...

    Nope.  That ain't it.  Hint:  Look at blue's right hand.

    Oh OK touching the belt maybe? You have lost me! I'm old school all looks OK to me I need bringing up to speed someone please....


    oh already answered while typing Very Happy 

    medo

    Posts : 276
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Throw from the ground?

    Post by medo on Sun May 11, 2014 5:54 pm

    finarashi wrote:In modern view the throw was continuous and in modern view you get a score. If you get a score then waza-ari is correct. You used to see this a lot at -60 kg but hey now bigger ladies have learnt this too. I agree that whether this is a Judo throw is debatable. One allowed this as at -60 kg this was perhaps the only way to score.  

    Was it continuous the initial two knee seoi was avoided/blocked? followed throw while white was in newaza?

    Ricebale

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    Re: Throw from the ground?

    Post by Ricebale on Sun May 11, 2014 5:55 pm

    I saw back exposure which scores in wrestling, bit rich to call this a throw

    medo

    Posts : 276
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Throw from the ground?

    Post by medo on Sun May 11, 2014 6:39 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    I would love to do randori with those girls, really tall, quite some room for coaching input, brings back some reminiscences of times long past.


    http://www.judo-snijders.nl/video-judo-wedstrijd-internationaal/2014-Baku-Grand-Slam-Judo/Laetitia%20Blot%20(FRA)%20-%20Tatiana%20Noskova%20(RUS)%20[-57kg]%20bronze.html

    Two more for you to coach  Wink good old tussle Smile

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