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    Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

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    forgeron judo

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    Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by forgeron judo on Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:15 am

    I recently reviewed a five parts document by Lamotte et Marcelin of France dated in the 1948-52 period and assembled as a private edition.
    In those documents, the authors described various techniques of tachi waza, Katame waza, kata and first aid techniques for instructors of judo which included such as kappo and katsu and kiai. These subjects are gathered around  the general theme: Manuel complet de judo et Jiu-Jitsu.

    There is also a mention of a demonstration performed by Kawaishi and Jean de Herdt in Marseilles in 1948 where the technique of Kiai were used/demonstrated to temporarily stun an opponent. This occurred at the end of a kata demonstration by both masters.
    Having studied some of the ancient forms of resuscitation in the early 50's as part of my curriculum for the shodan and then at the nidan level, which included not only the judo and self defence techniques comprised in the total Kawaishi system, but also the study of basic of anatomy, physiology and nervous system from direct students of Kawaishi and similarly from a Senior Japanese teacher who immigrated in Canada. I later complemented these lessons with new modern first aid techniques. Thereafter, I began to request of my upcoming new instructors to understand and practice those as part of the general safety program when giving lessons.

    Two questions come to mind,
    1. Are such ancient forms of first aid still being thought?
    2. Are there older judoka on this forum which can shed some more light on the Marseilles demonstration of 1948?
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:43 am

    forgeron judo wrote:I recently reviewed a five parts document by Lamotte et Marcelin of France dated in the 1948-52 period and assembled as a private edition.
    In those documents, the authors described various techniques of tachi waza, Katame waza, kata and first aid techniques for instructors of judo which included such as kappo and katsu and kiai. These subjects are gathered around  the general theme: Manuel complet de judo et Jiu-Jitsu.

    There is also a mention of a demonstration performed by Kawaishi and Jean de Herdt in Marseilles in 1948 where the technique of Kiai were used/demonstrated to temporarily stun an opponent. This occurred at the end of a kata demonstration by both masters.
    Having studied some of the ancient forms of resuscitation in the early 50's as part of my curriculum for the shodan and then at the nidan level, which included not only the judo and self defence techniques comprised in the total Kawaishi system, but also the study of basic of anatomy, physiology and nervous system from direct students of Kawaishi and similarly from a Senior Japanese teacher who immigrated in Canada. I later complemented these lessons with new modern first aid techniques. Thereafter, I began to request of my upcoming new instructors to understand and practice those as part of the general safety program when giving lessons.

    Two questions come to mind,
    1. Are such ancient forms of first aid still being thought?
    2. Are there older judoka on this forum which can shed some more light on the Marseilles demonstration of 1948?


    The kappô in Kôdôkan jûdô come from Tenjin Shin'yô-ryû, which in turn took them from Yôshin-ryû, which in turn imported them largely from China. They were taught for the last time in a major course during the 2007 International Summer Kata Course at the Kôdôkan; before that, they also had been taught in 2005. They were taught by the head of one of the two surviving branches of Tenjin Shin'yô-ryû accompanied by a physician with expertise in jûdô. In 2007 the head of Tenjin Shin'yô-ryû had to cancel his participation due to health reasons. I teach them about once per year during one of the technical & kata seminars for a federation and also in my club. I did not teach them this year though. Not too many people teach them anymore. The names of the techniques are of course totally different from jûdô names others are most familiar with so they either have to memorize them or read them off, etc. Another problem is that while effective, the presence of defibrillators, and cell phones that allow most of the time for people to call paramedics as well as unease over potential liability issues if erroneously applied, have led to these techniques no longer being popular. I a day and age where we regularly see reports of molestation and inappropriate touching instructors and coaches get increasingly reluctant to touch anyone on their body, especially if not medically qualified, in order to avoid wrongful accusations and everything that can follow from this in terms of personal reputation.

    In some classical jûjutsu schools kappô were accompanied by sappô and techniques that do this opposite, i.e. be lethal or attack the vital points. In jûdô atemi exist too, but virtually no one teaches the separately anymore. People learn only some of them as part of their integration in self-defense kata, physical education kata and theoretical kata. However, virtually no one trains these to proficiency, but only as a sequence they have to pass through as one of the stages towards completion of a series of mechanical steps. In this way, kata has become an exercise in futility with the obvious effect being very visual when a judoka steps in a ring with an MMA fighter or similar and it shows the average judoka can't properly use his atemi.

    I cannot comment on how many other teachers still teach kappô as I do not visit every single dôjô in the world, but it is not something I have come across frequently. I know that the late Dr. Ashida Sachio, 9th dan, was proficient in kappô and was known to teach them, but I don't know with what frequency and I also don't know if he still did the last decades of his life.

    I cannot answer your second question as I was not there. I talked to Jean de Herdt in August 2012 by telephone, and he told me he was very ill and no longer able to walk. He also did not hear well anymore. As we now know, he did not live for much longer. I don't know if the demonstration is detailed in professor Brousse's book Les racines du judo en France. In any case, it is not certain that those kata were separate. It may very well that it was a simple demonstration of kime-no-kata. Kiai must have been highly unusual for spectators unfamiliar with Japanese budô, so it may very well be that this stuck more with them than the actual techniques, and the description of "echnique of Kiai were used/demonstrated to temporarily stun an opponent" may well be a mere description made by a lay person watching something that was new to him.


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    DougNZ

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by DougNZ on Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:19 pm

    I learnt a bit of kappo during my time studying Kawaishi jiu jitsu. Whether it was from Kawaishi or stitched together from a number of sources, I cannot say. I suspect the latter, as people like Henry Okasaki were mentioned. He was not of our lineage but some of his techniques were absorbed in cross-pollination with Danzan Ryu in the 1980s. Some of what I saw was questionable and, from further reading, not correctly or appropriately applied. During the 1990s, the like of Dillman, Moneymaker, Montegue and Clarke were doing the rounds teaching pressure point knockouts and revivals and so kappo / katsu became the next coolest thing.

    My conclusion, based on what I have seen, is that many Western sensei teach kappo for its cool / mystical / secretive appeal. Most of them also wear wildly-coloured gi and are expected to be addressed as 'professor' or 'soke'.

    There are not many martial arts injuries that I have seen that cannot be handled with basic first aid followed by a call to the paramedics if needed. The medical experts I am associated with can mostly explain what each katsu movement is doing (in medical terms) and usually say there are better, less-risky methods of doing the same thing using modern medicine.
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    forgeron judo

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    teaching ancient methods

    Post by forgeron judo on Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:35 pm

    Thank you both for your input, I guess that we have moved on with time and that there are very few qualified teachers still holding some of this knowledge and that newer instructors learn first aid and paramedics methods since they are safer and more prominent. In Canada, as part of the coaching syllabus, a first aid and civil responsibility nodules are included in the training and the dojo admin rules comprising emergency kits, telephones, medical aids etc. are being followed.
    thanks again
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:06 am

    I think, yes and no. I don't think that current Western methods literally replace traditional kappô. The answer is more nuanced. Firstly, one may not compare methods that can be applied in a modern emergency room or operating theater with kappô. The first options after all are the exclusive terrain of trained anesthesiologists and emergency physicians and are not present on the spot where jûdô activity is conducted. Kappô were intended for every qualified senior jûdôka to be applied on any occasions.

    It is also not completely true that Western medicine offers ready manual strategies that can cope better with all of the indications for which kappô exist; some yes, others not. When it does, it is not so much because the intervention itself is better, but because our understanding of physiology evidently is much better than in the 1630s when these kappô first were brought to Japan. For example, we now know that the most important thing is circulation and we now know that if the brain is deprived of oxygen for more than 4 minutes during normal atmospheric and adiabatic conditions that irreversible damage occurs. But we know that breathing is secondary to circulation, and we know that a person who isn't breathing is not necessary dead and can have a pulse although eventually circulation will cease. We know that a when a person isn't breathing for some time aht acidosis will occur due to accumulation of carbon dioxide that may require buffering by bicarbonates, etc. With this information trained physicians can more adquately address some problems, but again, one may not compare trained physicians with standard jûdôka since the kappô were also meant for standard jûdôka.

    Nevertheless, from this information we know that when a person is suffering from acute drowning symptoms that it may not be sufficient to simply lie him with his belly upon a person in yotsunbai, but that circulation and breathing require most attention. However, that does not mean that the kappô approach has no use, since IF the person indeed has water in his lungs, this needs to be evacuated in order to induce independent breathing, and apart from mechanically causing that evacuation either or both by mechanical pressure or gravity there really aren't any other ways to do so, since you don't really carry a medical pump with you.

    Similarly, what approaches does modern medicine have that on the sport can be applied to epistaxis (nose bleed) ? You can apply cotton balls into your nose and apply manual pressure, but apart from that if it doesn't stop ?  Sure, there exists cotton drenched in epinephrine, but the average jûdôka does not have that with him on the tatami. I know from personal experience that reflex kappô therapy for nose bleed has stopped gushing nose bleeds that everyone else including the paramedics failed to stop.

    So, in other words, I think that it is more our current day knowledge than an exact replacement of the plethora of kappô techniques that is in order. Many kappô focus on breathing rather than on circulation, which could be a problem since for some reason it seems not to have been fully understood in those days that breathing is secondary to proper circulation. You cant induce breathing in a person that doesn't have circulation. We also know that not having a pulse can be caused by several things of which some are more serious than others, and various require a different strategy. Absence of a pulse could be due to severe drop in blood pressure, but it also could be due to fibrillation or asystole. All three require a different approach, but no effective approach exists without access to modern medical equipment and drugs, and even differentiating between the three in terms of diagnosis maybe hard or even impossible without modern diagnostic apparatus. Asystole even has a poor prognosis with modern medical approaches. So in that case one can't blame kappô since even a qualified medical doctor will face a near impossible situation to diagnose and address any of these conditions when outside a hospital deprived of modern medical diagnostic and treatment facilities.

    Doug talked about "martial injuries occurring on the tatami", but not all serious things that occur on the tatami are really "martial arts injuries". This is particularly so with some fatalities such as a rupture of a major cardiac artery. These can be incidences that only in a unique circumstances such as when they occur in an emergency room or operating theater have a chance for survival and are in all other instances fatal. For that reason one can't fairly include all medical indications when considering kappô.


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    heikojr

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by heikojr on Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:57 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:

    I cannot comment on how many other teachers still teach kappô as I do not visit every single dôjô in the world, but it is not something I have come across frequently. I know that the late Dr. Ashida Sachio, 9th dan, was proficient in kappô and was known to teach them, but I don't know with what frequency and I also don't know if he still did the last decades of his life.


    Yes, he did teach it quite a few times at our Yudanshakai meetings and more so as he grew older. He also used every opportunity as a lesson --- if he used kappo during practice, he would fix the injury, then explain how and why to everyone and have them practice the motion of the technique. It was very interesting. I even saw someone once dislocate their shoulder at a tournament and he calmed them down and then POP! He popped it back in --- and the guy continued in the tournament!

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    Fritz

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by Fritz on Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:34 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote: I know from personal experience that reflex kappô therapy for nose bleed has stopped gushing nose bleeds that everyone else including the paramedics failed to stop.
    How this i done? I know only the method to
    give strikes at the forehead with open palm while supporting the neck with the other hand...


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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:44 am

    Fritz wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote: I know from personal experience that reflex kappô therapy for nose bleed has stopped gushing nose bleeds that everyone else including the paramedics failed to stop.
    How this i done? I know only the method to
    give strikes at the forehead with open palm while supporting the neck with the other hand...

    Neck area with the side of the hand. Not something to just experiment with. Area is important, impact too that is to say how hard, how quick, how repetitive. The carotid artery contains baroreceptors (structures that react to changing pressures. See:

    http://withfriendship.com/images/h/38599/purely-autonomic.jpg

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baroreflex

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baroreceptor


    Note that the treatment of epistaxis in this way is not one of the official kappô that was retained in Kôdôkan jûdô.


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    NBK

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by NBK on Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:07 am

    DougNZ wrote:I learnt a bit of kappo during my time studying Kawaishi jiu jitsu.  Whether it was from Kawaishi or stitched together from a number of sources, I cannot say.  I suspect the latter, as people like Henry Okasaki were mentioned.  He was not of our lineage but some of his techniques were absorbed in cross-pollination with Danzan Ryu in the 1980s.  Some of what I saw was questionable and, from further reading, not correctly or appropriately applied.  During the 1990s, the like of Dillman, Moneymaker, Montegue and Clarke were doing the rounds teaching pressure point knockouts and revivals and so kappo / katsu became the next coolest thing.

    ......

    There are not many martial arts injuries that I have seen that cannot be handled with basic first aid followed by a call to the paramedics if needed.  The medical experts I am associated with can mostly explain what each katsu movement is doing (in medical terms) and usually say there are better, less-risky methods of doing the same thing using modern medicine.
    I worked with a senior Danzan ryu guy to research Henry Okazaki's study in Japan. I came away convinced he primarily studied (at an unspecified) massage therapy, which came with a martial art, and he also went to the Kodokan. We'll probably never know, as most of his personal papers are lost to history (actually thrown away, but that's another story).

    There was a long article in the Journal of the Japanese Academy of Martial Arts by some young university judo / PE professors regarding the results of their research into the mechanical effectiveness of the resuscitation techniques of traditional kappo versus modern Western methods and earlier Western methods. The results were interesting. I forget the details and don't have time to dig up the article but roughly,
    - modern Western techniques running 80-85% effective
    - traditional Japanese kappo techniques 60-70%
    - ancient Western techniques 30-40%
    based on the efficiency in assisting breathing. The subjects were fitted with breath measuring devices and had their diaphragms manipulated by the researchers.

    So, you're right, you're better off with trained modern medical staff, but the old techniques were pretty effective (in at least this very limited example).

    NBK
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:28 am

    NBK wrote:
    DougNZ wrote:I learnt a bit of kappo during my time studying Kawaishi jiu jitsu.  Whether it was from Kawaishi or stitched together from a number of sources, I cannot say.  I suspect the latter, as people like Henry Okasaki were mentioned.  He was not of our lineage but some of his techniques were absorbed in cross-pollination with Danzan Ryu in the 1980s.  Some of what I saw was questionable and, from further reading, not correctly or appropriately applied.  During the 1990s, the like of Dillman, Moneymaker, Montegue and Clarke were doing the rounds teaching pressure point knockouts and revivals and so kappo / katsu became the next coolest thing.

    ......

    There are not many martial arts injuries that I have seen that cannot be handled with basic first aid followed by a call to the paramedics if needed.  The medical experts I am associated with can mostly explain what each katsu movement is doing (in medical terms) and usually say there are better, less-risky methods of doing the same thing using modern medicine.
    I worked with a senior Danzan ryu guy to research Henry Okazaki's study in Japan.  I came away convinced he primarily studied (at an unspecified) massage therapy, which came with a martial art, and he also went to the Kodokan.  We'll probably never know, as most of his personal papers are lost to history (actually thrown away, but that's another story).  

    There was a long article in the Journal of the Japanese Academy of Martial Arts by some young university judo / PE professors regarding the results of their research into the mechanical effectiveness of the resuscitation techniques of traditional kappo versus modern Western methods and earlier Western methods.  The results were interesting.  I forget the details and don't have time to dig up the article but roughly,
    - modern Western techniques running 80-85% effective
    - traditional Japanese kappo techniques 60-70%
    - ancient Western techniques 30-40%
    based on the efficiency in assisting breathing.  The subjects were fitted with breath measuring devices and had their diaphragms manipulated by the researchers.

    So, you're right, you're better off with trained modern medical staff, but the old techniques were pretty effective (in at least this very limited example).  

    NBK

    I can totally see that. Should you find the article, I would be very interested. I have been planning for a number of years to write a comprehensive article on this together with a an anesthesiologist with martial arts experience and a couple of other people. I collected all the literature I could find on this in the West, both in popular and in medical professional literature. There are about two old books that deal with it; the French used to have a great interest in it, maybe because the Kawaishi method dominated for so long. The late Dr. Ashida too wrote one of the best English articles on it, but unfortunately it is lost on my PC even though I know 100% I scanned it in many years ago. The guy who used to teach it with Kubota-sensei was Dr. Tezuka, and some years ago he gave the initial lecture at the Kôdôkan Summer Kata course. He published some stuff about it in English and Japanese, which I have, and I suspect that he might have been a co-author in the article you mention. I can't recall if the stuff I have from him comes from the Journal of the Japanese Academy of Martial Arts, since I am not a member of this association and I don't get its journal and it's not open source with the full content accessbile online, unfortunately.


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    DougNZ

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by DougNZ on Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:17 am

    NBK wrote:
    So, you're right, you're better off with trained modern medical staff, but the old techniques were pretty effective (in at least this very limited example).  
    NBK

    Possibly the more important consideration is the amount of body movement used in some of the kappo techniques. For example, circling the arms of a prone patient will cause air to enter the lungs but if the original injury was impact related and there is injury to the neck, spine, chest or shoulders, this technique will be far more detrimental than, say, mouth-to-mouth. However, if the patient has facial injuries, then arm circling might be an option (though, as CK points out, circulation should take priority over oxygen intake). Body position may also need to be considered; in some kappo techniques the patient is sat back on a low-angle incline when modern medicine shown that the incline can induce a relapse of the condition and the patient should be flat.

    It is pretty hard for me to prove that I am sufficiently qualified in kappo or kappo is sufficiently effective, for me to attempt it on an ill patient and be covered for liability. If I perform modern first aid techniques as taught in schools, sports clubs and work places, then I am pretty well covered. In other words, perform ABC, put them in the recovery position and telephone for help.

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by DougNZ on Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:17 pm

    I should probably also add that I learnt a little bit about kiai, too. I cannot remember who from or when, but it was a couple of decades ago. We used kiai in Kawaishi but it was just noise, with no purpose other than to focus energy / timing. Trail Shihan, who is the foremost NZ Kawaishi expert, continues to use kiai.

    I was taught to use three types of kiai; one to expel energy (e.g. with strikes), one to absorb energy (e.g. taking blows), and one to startle / distract / 'hit' the opponent. I haven't used kiai for a long time now, though I 'think' the first two types. I have used the third type in sport jiu jitsu competition in sen-no-sen and sen-sen-no-sen situations, as well as as a feint before an attack. The hardness and commitment of kiai does not fit well with the type of ju-jitsu I practice now but I would certainly retain the third form of kiai as a stop-hit option in a real fight situation.

    GregW

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by GregW on Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:31 am

    DougNZ wrote:I was taught to use three types of kiai; one to expel energy (e.g. with strikes), one to absorb energy (e.g. taking blows), and one to startle / distract / 'hit' the opponent.

    I was taught the same thing by my sensei back in the 1970s when I was first beginning. When I came back into judo after decades off the mat, I noticed that you didn't hear kiai anymore. I asked my current sensei about it at the time and he said it kind of faded away.

    It was stressed enough at the time that it became instinctive. In hard randori, especially if I'm redoubling effort into an attack, a kiai will just come out. It tends to startle my partners and my students as well. They look at me and ask, "What was that?" I take the opportunity to teach them. I also use the second kiai above during hard falls. My son and I were practicing ura nage a few weeks back and I let out a kiai on impact on one of my turns as uke.
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    noboru

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    Some sources about Kappó 活法 / Kuatsu available from internet

    Post by noboru on Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:19 am

    Some sources about Kappó 活法 / Kuatsu available from internet.

    I don't know Kappö or Kuatsu, I don't able consider these informations but it is interesting for me. Some of these sources requested the informations from posts of CK. Thank you CK.

    Kappo-waza: técnicas de reanimación a estrangulación


    Correlative study of Sappo and Kappo. -From Waza(technique) of TenjinShinyo-Ryu.-
    KAZUHIKO KUBOYAMA

    IPU Department of Health Science, Faculty of Physical Education (Japan)
    http://judoresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Kazuhiko-Koboyama.pdf

    book Canon of judo from Mifune sensei - at the end of book ...

    The term explanation form Judo Channel
    http://www.judo-ch.jp/english/dictionary/terms/kappou/

    book Hayanawa Kappo Kenpo Kyohan Zukai Zen 1898
    http://museum.hikari.us/books/kenpo/index.html
    pages:
    http://museum.hikari.us/books/kenpo/kenpo-1898_page_57.jpg

    http://museum.hikari.us/books/kenpo/kenpo-1898_page_58.jpg

    http://museum.hikari.us/books/kenpo/kenpo-1898_page_59.jpg

    http://museum.hikari.us/books/kenpo/kenpo-1898_page_60.jpg


    Some teaching of similar techniques is on 活法 huofa Kuatsu
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    noboru

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by noboru on Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:26 am

    From book Kano Jiu-Jitsu
    http://judoinfo.com/books/kuatsu.pdf
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    Jonesy

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by Jonesy on Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:37 am

    Katsu Revival Techniques by Syd Hoare

    Source: http://www.sydhoare.com/KATSU%20REVIVAL%20TECHNIQUES-1.pdf

    One day fifty years ago after I had started training at the London Budokai and shortly after I had got my black belt Trevor Leggett 6th Dan announced, “All new black belts down to the lower dojo”. This meant nothing to me but some of the older hands looked at each other apprehensively and one whispered to me, ‘It’s a katsu class.’ I had heard about the judo revival techniques but never thought I would see them in action let alone do them.

    We crowded into the small lower dojo and Leggett made a point of shutting the dojo door firmly. ‘What I have to show you is part of the Budokwai oral traditions. That is to say it is passed on verbally from black belt to black and is never shown to anyone who is not a club black belt. Never’. He went on, ‘I will show you two katsu techniques – another name is kappo - and after you have practised them a bit with a partner we will do the real thing. In other words you will be paired up and will strangle your partner out then revive him and then he will do the same to you’. We looked at each other.

    Leggett then showed us the two techniques which we practised with our partners for about twenty minutes. These dry-runs were not particularly spectacular. Nothing much happened mainly because we were all fully conscious. Leggett came round to each couple and checked out their katsu technique. The mood of the class was apprehensive.

    Leggett then clapped his hands which made some of us jump and picked the first couple. The couple he chose were two new black-belts who like me had never experienced a katsu class before ‘I want one of you to put kata-hajime on your partner and strangle him out. The kata-hajime correctly applied is very difficult to break that is why we use it. Also it shows the degree of unconsciousness which has been reached. One of you sit down and let the other approach you from the rear and apply Kata-hajime. You go first’. He nodded towards one of them who was called Tony.

    Tony moved round behind his seated partner, put his hands in place and began applying pressure around his neck. Leggett however had noticed a fault. ‘Stop, stop.’ He wagged his finger at the stranglee. ‘Let him put it on you. Don’t tense your neck up before the strangle is fully in place. Start again!’ The next attempt was much cleaner. The strangle began to bite immediately and in a few seconds the stranglee got closer to being strangled out. At this point he began thrashing about wildly trying to tear his partners hands away from his neck. ‘Keep it on.’ said Leggett sternly and Tony did so. A few more seconds then his partner slumped unconscious in front of him. ‘Now move quickly and do the first katsu method. Your partner will revive quite quickly so move it’. The katsu was applied but nothing much happened. The inert heap stayed inert. ‘Now try the second method.’ At this point there were signs of returning life and then Tony’s partner woke up. ‘Too late, said Leggett, but not to worry, and don’t forget that if the strangle is held on for longer your partner will stay unconscious for longer. If held on for too long death will occur.’ Leggett moved on to the next couple since the somewhat dazed man was not yet capable of applying the same medicine to his partner. “It will be your turn to strangle second time around,’ said Leggett.

    ‘Your turn’, said Leggett cheerfully to the next couple. This time there was much less resistance from the one being strangled but it looked a lot more disturbing. As he dropped unconscious his legs and body began shaking in fits and spasms. ‘Do the second revival technique I taught you’, commanded Leggett, ‘but quickly, he will revive soon’. The second katsu move was a lot more difficult to do but it appeared have some effect. The body jerked in a more positive way and with a big gasp he came to. ‘That was better, said Leggett, but remember these techniques have to be practised’.

    The next couple was even more dramatic. The strangle was applied and his partner duly slumped unconscious except that he was pretending to go out. ‘Start again, bellowed Leggett, and this time properly’. The stranglee was scared stiff of the strangle but now that his pretence had been exposed he had to let it go on correctly and Leggett told his strangler to hold it on till he said stop. Up to the point of going out he fought like a tiger but it was no accident that katahajime was chosen – he could not break it. He slumped unconscious but was out long enough to let his partner have a few stabs at both katsu methods. One seemed to work quite well.

    The next couple to perform was noteworthy for one single reason. Once consciousness was lost the stranglee peed in his pants which had to be cleaned up. While this was going on Leggett asked the class how they knew the strangle was genuinely taking effect. Various explanations were offered but they were not the ones Leggett wanted. ‘Its quite simple he said. Once in the Katahajime position one arm will be sticking up in the air. Be aware of that arm. When it slowly starts to droop you will know it is working.

    My turn came around. I put the strangle on but my partner soon started double tapping me in submission. Leggett though said, ‘Keep going’ which I did but it felt strange to go through the taps till my partner slumped unconscious. I had time to apply both methods but nothing startling happened. He came round of his own accord.

    After me Leggett went back to the first couple and reversed the roles. By now the mood had changed for the worse. We had all seen the fits, spasms, deception, peeing and gagging and none of it looked inviting. The similar problems happened again. Some fought like tigers to break the strangle and others pretended to go out. In my case it was not too bad. I had been strangled out accidentally a few times in training since I always fought to the bitter end but it felt weird to allow someone to do it.

    However we all managed to see some successes with the second of the Katsu methods which involved jabbing a particular nerve in the body. One thing we did learn and that was how long it took to strangle somebody out. Unfortunately for anybody reading this I am not about to expose the secret oral katsu traditions of the Budokwai. As far as I know the katsu class was only repeated a few more times (which I attended) and then never again after Leggett retired from judo.

    However as judo teachers and referees we had plenty of opportunity to practise our katsu skills. The most spectacular success I had was when a grading competitor had dropped unconscious very early on during groundwork and the referee had not noticed it. I shouted to him, he looked at the strangle and shook his head but did not stop the fight. It began to look very dangerous to me so I dived across the mat and knocked the strangler out of the way and got working quickly with the katsu. By this stage the man underneath appeared to have stopped breathing. I applied the katsu but nothing happened then on the fourth attempt he gave a big shudder and took a huge gulp of air and soon came to.

    In Japan things were a bit different. One frequently saw unconscious students dragged to the edge of the mat and then revived with a kick to the body (to a katsu spot) and then after five to ten minutes they were expected to get back into the training. Most, though not all, did. In the Nichidai dojo the sempai used to say that you saw your mum in your unconscious dreams and they would often use the expression, ‘Send him home to mum’ when meaning, ‘Strangle him out!’ This was the medicine for those who did not fight against the strangle hard enough, especially those on with a foreigner.

    In the Kodokan big dojo there were always plenty of old sensei who flocked to any injury on the mat. They were good for minor dislocations and breaks but whereas some seemed to know what they were doing others did not exactly inspire much confidence. One American judoka I knew had his nose twisted out of shape so he went to a cheap local hospital much used by sumo people and had it straightened out. Their method was simple. Two assistants held him down and the third shoved a wooden instrument up one nostril and levered it all back!

    Non-judo people find strangles very frightening. When I was in the army a soldier heard me talking about strangles and asked to experience one. He acted as if they were nothing. So I duly obliged but he tapped out like lightning as soon as I tightened up around his neck.

    Fifty years on we are all now very careful on the mat because of the possibility of litigation. Dojos have to provide qualified first-aiders and doctors at events and if in doubt a quick call is placed to emergency services. So I have to advise following this route and not attempting to try katsu yourself. I simply write about it to give you a flavour of how judo was in the past.

    PS For more information on Katsu see the Kodokan Judo Kagaku Kenkyu Kiyo (Kodokan Judo Science Research Bulletins) Vols 1-6. 1958 - 84

    © Syd Hoare 2009


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    Reinberger

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by Reinberger on Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:37 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Fritz wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote: I know from personal experience that reflex kappô therapy for nose bleed has stopped gushing nose bleeds that everyone else including the paramedics failed to stop.
    How this i done? I know only the method to
    give strikes at the forehead with open palm while supporting the neck with the other hand...

    Neck area with the side of the hand. Not something to just experiment with. Area is important, impact too that is to say how hard, how quick, how repetitive. The carotid artery contains baroreceptors (structures that react to changing pressures. See:

    http://withfriendship.com/images/h/38599/purely-autonomic.jpg

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baroreflex

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baroreceptor


    Note that the treatment of epistaxis in this way is not one of the official kappô that was retained in Kôdôkan jûdô.
    I remember that I first saw both methods mentioned above applied during a jiu-jitsu class in 1970 by our trainer (he himself only a young student of lectureship at this time, and not even a yudansha of his art). They were quite common at that times. After the conventional approach, to tilt the head back, cover the nose with a towel to catch the blood while compressing the nose a little bit at the same time, and otherwise waiting for the bleeding to stop by itself did not work well, as the bleeding went on, the second method described here was tried first, but also without success. After that, it were the strikes to the forehead with the neck supported by the other hand, that did the job.

    After the nose bleed had stopped, we were told what happened, together with an explanation why that method was applied and may have worked. We were allowed to give it some cautious tries ourself, just to get the right feeling of rhythm and amount of force to be applied. Since than, I've used it successfully several times myself, but never tried the other method. But then, normally this kind of bleeding is neither a severe "injury", nor is this method to stop it a very risky one to try.

    Of course, like always, it is necessary to consider what kind of situation or accident has caused the epistaxis in the first place, before deciding if the method described should be applied. If, for only one example, there is a chance that the nose bleeding might be accompanied by a concussion, I certainly wouldn't use this method.


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    DougNZ

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by DougNZ on Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:42 pm

    Great story, Jonesy.  I thought Leggett was going to conclude the session by pointing out that neither of the two resuscitation were particularly effective and in many cases the stranglee came to of their own accord!

    I have personally experienced unconsciousness many times in many situations on the mat.   I have also seen many go out and have put my fair share of people to sleep.  I believe it is a healthy thing to experience.  I once had a second dan visit my club.  I was demonstrating a strangle from a modified tate shiho and the guy I was demonstrating on was resisting fairly vigorously.  His struggles turned into a fit and I didn't notice immediately because I was well buried to keep position and avoid getting clouted.  As soon as I realised I jumped off and rolled the guy into the recovery position and positioned myself for his coming to (important because some people spark up and immediately go into attack mode).  He carried on with a bit more boogie and then woke up.  I talked him back and then all was okay.  The thing is, the nidan had never seen this before and was horrified.  I was somewhat perturbed that he may well have gone through his martial arts career - much of it as an instructor - and never have a clue about unconsciousness.  I think to teach strangles and not have any experience about their outcome is irresponsible.

    My responses during unconsciousness have been varied; I have faded out and immediately returned and, at the other end, I was out for ages and peed myself.  In one case, I was strangled by a bloke in my guard, thinking that it would never happen (legs are longer and stronger than arms, we are told!).  The funny thing is that was the point where I lost consciousness.  When I woke up, I had reversed him and was in mount punching him in the head.  I have no memory of that and we are told that cannot happen if we lose consciousness. Well ...! I've also had the most vivid dreams when out; powerful, powerful dreams such that when I awoke I could not reconcile the ugly, concerned faces staring down at me with the beautiful dream I was having or the people in it.  That was weird and I felt quite 'spacey' for much of the rest of the class.

    Anyway, enough reminiscing!!! That reminds me ... it's been a while since we've had anything like that in class and many of my guys will not have seen unconsciousness.  Might be time for a session on strangles ... Very Happy
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    Jihef

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by Jihef on Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:29 am

    Very Happy
    Old Print Article: “Revived By Jiu-Jitsu,” New York Times (1910)

    http://afflictor.com/2013/04/16/old-print-article-revived-by-jiu-jitsu-new-york-times-1910/


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    forgeron judo

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    teachin kiai and kuatsu

    Post by forgeron judo on Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:29 am

    Digging in my old books collection, I found two references in French dealing with the subjects of kiai and kuatsu. They are Seifuku et Kuatsu by Dr Maurice Philippe who was a teacher of sports medicine in France in the early 1950. His manuscript published in limited edition ( I have no..145) deals with the ancient methods of bone settings and therapeutic medicine. He recognized the value of these ancient practices and recommends  their complements with modern approach.
    The second book is from the Marabout collection of 1978 (Belgium) and was written by Roland Habersetzer under title Ju-Jitu and kiai. In one chapter, the author describe the three usage of the kiai or concentration of energy: to destabilize the opponent during sen no sen, to assist in concentrating our energy when going on the offensive and to use to reanimate an opponent who has just been in an unconscious state. He describes the psycho-physio effects similar to the ones expressed by the other colleagues who posted their experiences in previous notes.
    I was introduced to those method in the early 1950 by a Japanese bone setter and judo black belt; Sensei Katsuta of Lethbrige Alberta a 4th dan who proceeded in similar secret way to teach us the Ura side of judo as he called it. We were sworn to abide by the good Samaritan law and only make use of them for the good of society.
    If you read French, bonne lecture.
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    noboru

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by noboru on Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:39 am

    Here is video from tsukinami shiai from Kodokan. Referee use some kuatsu technique for after succefully jime waza (time from 1:30).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzI4bR2lXVM
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    BillC

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by BillC on Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:46 am

    noboru wrote:Here is video from tsukinami shiai from Kodokan ... etc

    Dude, are you here in Tokyo?


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    noboru

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    at home

    Post by noboru on Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:39 am

    BillC wrote:
    noboru wrote:Here is video from tsukinami shiai from Kodokan ... etc

    Dude, are you here in Tokyo?

    No, I am at home. Do you want to go to the pub with me Very Happy ?
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    NBK

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by NBK on Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:19 am

    noboru wrote:
    BillC wrote:
    noboru wrote:Here is video from tsukinami shiai from Kodokan ... etc

    Dude, are you here in Tokyo?

    No, I am at home. Do you want to go to the pub with me  Very Happy ?
    He does, but he's gotta take me to the pub here in Tokyo this weekend first.
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    noboru

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    Re: Teaching of katsu kappo and kiai

    Post by noboru on Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:24 pm


    Picture from japanese seminar for judo judges (Judo federation of Tochigi prefecture - 06.10.2012). Some kind of Katsu is teaching.


    Source: http://nishiju.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-61.html


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