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    Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

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    noboru

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    Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by noboru on Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:35 am

    When I read the book from Kodokan (1). I was little bit surprised with Jigoro Kano recommendation for his yudansha about studium of any clasical japanese weapon (sword, stick).

    My friend, who study the jodo (way of stick) sent me the link to interesting scans of pages from old issues of Judo Illustrated magazine.

    There are some informations about weapon study for judokas from Donn F. Draeger sensei, who studyied judo, kendo, Katori Shinto ryu kenjutsu, Sinto Muso ryu jojutsu in Japan after WW2 and he wrote some amazing books about judo,...

    Fundamentals of Sword Handling for Judoists
    By Donn F. Draeger
    http://www.chingchic.com/fundamentals-of-sword-handling-for-judoists.html

    About connection judo and jodo (way of stick), Jigoro Kano quotes, ideas and Shimizu Takaji jojutsu teaching in Kodokan:

    JODO As told to Donn F. Draeger by Takaji Shimizu
    http://www.chingchic.com/articles-from-judo-illustrated-the-kusarigama-the-tsuba-the-lowly-sitting-position-kenjutsu-jodo.html

    Have a nice day

    (1) Jigoro Kano and the Kodokan - An Innovative response to modernisation, Kano Sensei Biographic Editorial Commitee a Alex Bennett, Kodokan Judo Institute, 2009

    Jonesy

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    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by Jonesy on Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:51 am

    This paper "A Judo that Incorporates Kendo" by the esteemed Professor Fumiaki Shisida is worth a read: http://www.archbudo.com/fulltxt.php?ICID=1057769

    The original vision for the Kodokan was to be a place that many of the Japanese "do" - gendai budo - would be practiced.


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    NBK

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    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by NBK on Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:30 am

    I wrote someplace, maybe the old judo forum, about jo instruction in the Kodokan.  It was not normally Shimizu sensei, but another gent who tied back to Fukuoka.  There was an entire series in the old Judo magazine (1930's) covering the  proto basic form of Shinto Muso ryu jojutsu before it was finalized.

    Kano shihan wrote the foreword and explained why he thought the jo, which he called 'bo', to be the most practical weapon for self defense.  In short, as it was illegal and impractical for most people to caryy a sword, and its training long and difficult, jo techniques could be used with about anything - a stick, mop, umbrella, or an openly carried walking stick.  

    His ultimate plan, as written in the foreword to that series on jojutsu, was that all senior judoka would be versed in jojutsu and it would spread throughout the world as an integral part of judo.  At one point before his death there were classes with a number of senior judoka at the Kodokan.  It seems to have been stopped shortly not long after his death; I cannot determine why and by whom.  

    His plan to incorporate kendo into judo must be discussed in the context of his vision for judo.  That vision was abandoned by the later leadership of the Kodokan and judo instructors for a number of reasons and circumstances, so much so that trying to recap it out today is probably a pointless history recitation in which no one is interested.

    Here's a German blog that captures some of that and lifted my translation of Kano shihan's foreword to the jojutsu series:
    http://www.judo-blog.de/wordpress/allgemein/kano-judo-und-kodokan-bojutsu/

    The foreword by Kano shihan, translated by me, scrambled by some Italian then modified by a German (hence the odd extra word and a couple of scrambled sentences for Lord only knows what reason, but I'm not retranslating and editing it today) :
    “The reason why the Kodokan has made available to the teaching of Bojutsu (Practice Staff) to anyone who is interested.”
    Jigoro Kano – Kodokan Shihan

    When I was young, I practiced bojutsu of Yagyu-ryu with a man named Oshima.
    As my practice of this discipline has not reached the level of shugyo (depth study), usually do not mention it. However since then I thought there was value in the shugyo bojutsu. As I said previously, I am convinced that larger studies are desirable, those of Jujitsu, the Bojutsu (stick) and kenjutsu (sword).

    Looking at the reality of our current society, we are talking about men, women, young or old, excluding the few people who actually jobs that give opportunity to bring a sword in his belt, no one carries weapons. Consequently, in the event of something unexpected, the martial art that is more useful that can defend themselves without weapons. Considering things from this point of view, today the value of kenjutsu is relatively poor, but are convinced that this, along with Jujitsu, has had in our country for many years a great value as a method of spiritual development (lit. development laws of moral culture). In addition to Jujitsu, we must consider the experience of Bojutsu, which is a very important thing and that seems to be overlooked by many people today.

    That is about eight years ago (Showa 2, 1927), we gathered people interested in the Kodokan and we started practicing in bojutsu Tamai Sensei, Sensei Shiina, Ito Sensei and Sensei of Katori Shinto Ryu Kuboki, all from the prefecture of Chiba. About four years ago we received, from Fukuoka, Shimizu Sensei of Shindo Muso Ryu (jojutsu), and still continue the practice of this technique. Today, thanks to Sensei and Takeda Sensei Hioki, and with the help of others, we are increasingly able to practice these arts. In addition to the beginner we recently about 50 participants, so that we must practice the principal of the Kodokan Dojo.

    In the future, in addition to the efforts made so far, we intend to continue to invite the great masters of Bojutsu.
    As we took the essence of various schools of jujutsu to develop the basics of judo, we have had great success in gathering techniques bojutsu many schools and doing searches of these.
    Now, as a branch of the Kodokan Judo, we created the Kodokan Bojutsu.
    I hope that we will be able to spread throughout the world.

    Although I said you put my energy in the development of Bojutsu, I still think that the unarmed martial arts have a greater value. After that, I think, however, that the study recommended the most is the one where you learn to attack and defend with the use of weapons. About weapons, I think is more important than the study of Kenjutsu (sword arts) rather than that of the Yari (spear) or naginata (halberd). People normally have easy access to tools such as sticks (Jo – short stick), walking sticks or umbrellas. It is usually easy to have at hand something like a stick or a piece of wood that, in case of emergency, can be used as an improvised weapon. In any case, the Bojutsu is useful not only for the reasons described above, but also because it is suitable for routine practice.
    Similarly, all Bujutsu (fighting arts) requires practice. As I say constantly about Atemi Jutsu (art of hitting with your bare hands), used in Seiryoku zen’yo Taiiku that I have developed and which uses Atemi Jutsu, that the following consideration. As you study Atemi Jutsu, in practical case it is very difficult to make best use of this art. Consequently, the great value of these techniques is that their practice can be used as a means of physical education.

    It ‘also important to consider that the technique of hit and dell’afferrarsi takes a large part of the exercises, and practice from the beginning that it requires simple equipment to obtain (for example, just a jo bare hands or the same).

    So recently I did some research Bojutsu and I decided to share it. I urge the start of the practice of this art as soon as possible for those who are interested in the whole country, region by region, under the guidance of instructors qualified to be a new branch of judo.

    In developing the Kodokan, becoming capable in these practices, we will be successful and train instructors to be sent around the world. In a bit of years I think, such as Judo is spreading throughout the world, there will come a time in which to spread abroad also Bojutsu.”

    (Magazine “Judo”, year Showa 10 (1935) April)

    NBK

    noboru

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    Thank you to NBK and Jonesy -archbudo

    Post by noboru on Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:27 am

    Thank you Jonesy for your link and NBK for your all reply. It is clear for me. Both you linked some documents from archbudo website, there are next interesting documents/researches about judó...

    For example:
    Kōdōkan Jūdō’s Elusive Tenth Kata: The Gō-no-kata ―“Forms of Proper Use of Force” – Part 3, Authors: Carl De Crée, Llyr C Jones, 2009

    Judo’s techniques performed from a distance: The origin of Jigoro Kano’s concept and its actualization by Kenji Tomiki, Author: Fumiaki Shishida, 2010

    Analysis of Patterns of Response to Kuzushi in Eight Drections Based on Plantar Pressure and Reaction Movement, Authors: Akitoshi Sogabe, Taketo Sasaki, Michito Sakamoto, Yoshihisa Ishikawa, Mitsushi Hirokawa, Hiroshi Kubota, Shunsuke Yamasaki, 2008







    judoplayer

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    prewar judo book "Showa no Judo" from 1935 about Kodokan Bojutsu

    Post by judoplayer on Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:08 am

    Hello,

    this is my first post in this Forum. Please apologise  my basic English knowledge. Concerning the topic about the  Bojutsu/Jodo studing in the Kodokan, recently I found  a very interesting prewar japanese judo-book. This  book includes  few pages and pictures (perhaps  the Kodokan bojutsu intructors Takeda Jiro  and Heki Ryusuke ?) about Kodokan Bojutsu. The name of the book is:  "Showa no Judo" (昭和の柔道) and was written in 1935 from the Author Matsuoka,Tatsusaburou (松岡辰三郎 ).  I have  uploaded few pages   on my dropbox: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66703143/Judobuch-1935-Showa%20no%20Judo/MatsuokaTatsusaburou-Showa%20no%20Judo-1935(1).pdf

    You will find the mentioned passages on page 9-10. Maybe our japanese-experts can give us more information about?  Thank you very much.

    @NBK

    I'm studing  Prof. Sato's Shizuyas "Nihon Jujutsu" . There is two  Bojutsu/Jojutsu -techniques in the "Goshin Ho Dai San Kyo" (self defence application). The name of the techniques are
    "Morote Zuki" (devence against a stick, two handed thrust)  and "Furioroshi"  (defence against a stick, overhead strike). Is there a link to the Kodokan Bojutsu?


    Thank you very much again.

    Best regards from Germany.

    Judoplayer

    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:27 am

    judoplayer wrote:Hello,

    this is my first post in this Forum. Please apologise  my basic English knowledge. Concerning the topic about the  Bojutsu/Jodo studing in the Kodokan, recently I found  a very interesting prewar japanese judo-book. This  book includes  few pages and pictures (perhaps  the Kodokan bojutsu intructors Takeda Jiro  and Heki Ryusuke ?) about Kodokan Bojutsu. The name of the book is:  "Showa no Judo" (昭和の柔道) and was written in 1935 from the Author Matsuoka,Tatsusaburou (松岡辰三郎 ).  I have  uploaded few pages   on my dropbox: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66703143/Judobuch-1935-Showa%20no%20Judo/MatsuokaTatsusaburou-Showa%20no%20Judo-1935(1).pdf

    You will find the mentioned passages on page 9-10. Maybe our japanese-experts can give us more information about?  Thank you very much.

    @NBK

    I'm studing  Prof. Sato's Shizuyas "Nihon Jujutsu" . There is two  Bojutsu/Jojutsu -techniques in the "Goshin Ho Dai San Kyo" (self defence application). The name of the techniques are
    "Morote Zuki" (devence against a stick, two handed thrust)  and "Furioroshi"  (defence against a stick, overhead strike). Is there a link to the Kodokan Bojutsu?


    Thank you very much again.

    Best regards from Germany.

    Judoplayer


    Thanks for attaching this document as I do not currently have the book here and did not have an electronic copy of it. I haven't read everything yet, but was pleased to find the section on Tenjin Shin'yô-ryû and Kitô-ryû on pages 46-48. The TSYR section doesn't say much different from most books, but the last couple of lines on Kitô-ryû about Takenakaha may convey some additional info, and then there is also the emphasis on the practice of both kata and randori.

    Interesting picture also on p. 54 which shows ritsu-rei (standing bow). For some strange reason today at the Kôdôkan when doing kata males bow like females with the hands very much at the front of their legs. No one ever changed that but it is one of the strange things that someone started doing some day and which others started taking over, just like the continuous adjustment of the gi throughout a kata.


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    NBK

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    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by NBK on Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:47 pm

    judoplayer wrote:Hello,

    this is my first post in this Forum. Please apologise  my basic English knowledge. Concerning the topic about the  Bojutsu/Jodo studing in the Kodokan, recently I found  a very interesting prewar japanese judo-book. This  book includes  few pages and pictures (perhaps  the Kodokan bojutsu intructors Takeda Jiro  and Heki Ryusuke ?) about Kodokan Bojutsu. The name of the book is:  "Showa no Judo" (昭和の柔道) and was written in 1935 from the Author Matsuoka,Tatsusaburou (松岡辰三郎 ).  I have  uploaded few pages   on my dropbox: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66703143/Judobuch-1935-Showa%20no%20Judo/MatsuokaTatsusaburou-Showa%20no%20Judo-1935(1).pdf

    You will find the mentioned passages on page 9-10. Maybe our japanese-experts can give us more information about?  Thank you very much....
    JudoPlayer, your English is fine.

    And your 'shashinwaza' is really good - those are great photos. Any hints how you did it? Do you have a special shooting table ? I've been designing and redesigning one for a couple of years. Any hints would be very welcome.

    Showa Judo is one of several prewar judo gems that should shame the current sports oriented judo, and show what a martial arts-oriented judo could be and once was - a comprehensive martial arts with a sporting, competitive aspect, not the opposite. How it got there is a different story.

    I don't think that is Heki sensei - he was much older by then, a wry small man with a big stick.

    The hanbo in Showa Judo to me is very much influenced by Uchida ryu tanjojutsu - any technically competent, advanced jodo practitioner can show you.

    Sato sensei's hanbojutsu came from another lineage - police taihojutsu and postwar riot police training. The jo counters are found in a number of koryu disarms and aikibujutsu, hard to say where Sato sensei learned them.

    Cichorei Kano wrote:.....
    Interesting picture also on p. 54 which shows ritsu-rei (standing bow). For some strange reason today at the Kôdôkan when doing kata males bow like females with the hands very much at the front of their legs. No one ever changed that but it is one of the strange things that someone started doing some day and which others started taking over, just like the continuous adjustment of the gi throughout a kata.
    Note that the gents are standing with their feet apart - this is not a standard formal bow of today, but rather mimicking the bow as if armored, more like Koshiki no Kata, is it not?

    NBK

    judoplayer

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    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by judoplayer on Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:25 pm

    @NBK and @Chichorei Kano
    Thank you very much for the fast response.

    NBK wrote:
    And your 'shashinwaza' is really good - those are great photos. Any hints how you did it? Do you have a special shooting table ? I've been designing and redesigning one for a couple of years. Any hints would be very welcome.

    You are welcome. Link to the book source:

    If anybody is interested in the complete book I can upload it on my dropbox.


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    NBK

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    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by NBK on Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:39 pm

    judoplayer wrote:@NBK and @Chichorei Kano
    Thank you very much for the fast response.

    NBK wrote:
    And your 'shashinwaza' is really good - those are great photos. Any hints how you did it? Do you have a special shooting table ? I've been designing and redesigning one for a couple of years. Any hints would be very welcome.

    You are welcome. Link to the book source:

    If anybody is interested in the complete book I can upload it on my dropbox.
    I misunderstood - thought you shot that yourself.

    The NDL has a number of interesting books. Not all zoom crisply.


    Thanks
    NBK

    judoplayer

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    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by judoplayer on Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:09 am

    NBK wrote:I misunderstood - thought you shot that yourself.

    The NDL has a number of interesting books. Not all zoom crisply.


    Thanks
    NBK

    I misunderstood too.The scan was  of course not from me. But it is on of the best scanned book in the collection.

    NBK wrote:
    I don't think that is Heki sensei - he was much older by then, a wry small man with a big stick.

    Recently I found in the  Kodokan calender  "The Jigoro Kano special edition series" from 2012  an very nice picture from the bojutsu training in 1935. And the two person on the calender-sheet  looks very similar to the instructors in the old Judo-book.


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    NBK

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    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by NBK on Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:09 am

    judoplayer wrote:
    NBK wrote:I misunderstood - thought you shot that yourself.

    The NDL has a number of interesting books. Not all zoom crisply.


    Thanks
    NBK

    I misunderstood too.The scan was  of course not from me. But it is on of the best scanned book in the collection.

    NBK wrote:
    I don't think that is Heki sensei - he was much older by then, a wry small man with a big stick.

    Recently I found in the  Kodokan calender  "The Jigoro Kano special edition series" from 2012  an very nice picture from the bojutsu training in 1935. And the two person on the calender-sheet  looks very similar to the instructors in the old Judo-book.
    I tried to edit this earlier, had a computer problem.

    Judoplayer, please check your private messages.

    Yes - I help choose those photos for the Kodokan calendar and research and translate the captions. I suggested that one to introduce the fact that once the Kodokan taught more than judo. The entire caption read:
    3月 左写真:講道館ぼうじゅつ棒術の指導員、左からたけだ武田じろう次郎、ひおき日置りゅう隆すけ介 右写真:講道館棒術部の稽古風景 1935年

    March 2102 Left: Kōdōkan bōjutsu instructors Takeda Jirō (left) and Hioki Ryūsuke (spelling?). Right: Kōdōkan bōjutsu class. 1935. (NOTE: At the time, the Kōdōkan called this art bōjutsu; today, it is called jōdō , literally, ‘art of the staff’)

    Now that I look again, it does look like him.
    NOTE: no one is positive of the pronunciation of his name, Heki or Hioki sensei.

    Also, I tried to note that the lefthand photo in the pg you posted, the one with the tanbo blocking the bokken, is captioned with ステッキ術 'sutekki jutsu', or (walking) stick techniques, a name for Uchida ryū tanjōjutsu techniques.

    Uchida ryū tanjōjutsu was developed by Uchida Ryogoro, a Fukuoka martial artist and political activist. http://www.kampaibudokai.org/Tanjo.htm

    He developed the techniques of using a short jō (tanjō) against a sword after he was almost assassinated by a former samurai with an illegally carried sword. At the time, around 1900, it became the style for men to walk with a short stick if in Japanese dress or a Western style cane if dressed in Western dress.
    The stick if wielded properly could be used as a defensive weapon against a sword, as sword carry had been banned years before, but were still used in political violence.

    The style is a heiden or subsumed style now a part of Shinto Muso ryu jōdō; you can get instruction from most any senior practitioner, but most don't want to teach it separately. The moves are quite simple and with a bit of work you can figure out most of it yourself.

    Here's Don Drager and Kaminoda sensei, my former instructor, demonstrating years ago:

    Uchida Ryogoro was the father of Uchida Ryōhei, famous for founding the ultranationalist Kokuryukai ('Black Dragon Society', meaning the Amur River Soceity) and the author of one of the earliest books on jūdō. He was also the first jūdō instructor at what later became Keio University, one of Japan's most prestigious private universities.

    NBK

    judoplayer

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    prewar judo book "Showa no Judo" from 1935 about Kodokan Bojutsu

    Post by judoplayer on Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:51 am

    Hello NBK,

    thank you very much for the detailed information about tanjōjutsu. I only have a little bit training in Daiwado tanjōjutsu. But it seem to be different to Uchida ryū tanjōjutsu

    NBK wrote:Judoplayer, please check your private messages.
    At this moment I cannot receive or send  a private message in the judo-forum. I don't know why.
    But in the morning I have answered your private e-mail message.


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    finarashi

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    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by finarashi on Tue May 17, 2016 5:50 am

    I had some interesting discussions of Jorma Kivinen Kodokan 8th dan who studied in Japan from 1968 to 1972. Among other things he studied Jodo at the police dojo under Shimizu sensei. Jodo was not trained at Kodokan at this time. As mentioned he remembers to have trained with e.g. Don Draeger.

    Jorma Kivinen demonstrated jodo in Finland 1972 and had a group of students, but due to him starting as Finnish National coach the jodo practice in Finland dwindled, but has been later revived under Finnish kendo association jodo.fi.



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    NBK

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    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by NBK on Tue May 17, 2016 2:08 pm

    finarashi wrote:I had some interesting discussions of Jorma Kivinen Kodokan 8th dan who studied in Japan from 1968 to 1972. Among other things he studied Jodo at the police dojo under Shimizu sensei. Jodo was not trained at Kodokan at this time. As mentioned he remembers to have trained with e.g. Don Draeger.

    Jorma Kivinen demonstrated jodo in Finland 1972 and had a group of students, but due to him starting as Finnish National coach the jodo practice in Finland dwindled, but has been later revived under Finnish kendo association jodo.fi.


    Thanks for this, Finarishi,

    There's no evidence I've found that jodo instruction survived Kano shihan's death. It seems to have been taught only in a limited time pre-WWII.

    johan smits

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    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by johan smits on Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:06 pm

    Is there more material available on the bojutsu taught at the Kodokan in that time?
    If I understand it correctly the training in (bojutsu) of Katori Shinto-ryu stopped after some time but Shindo Muso ryu was still taught.
    Did they teach tanjo or jo? And did Ryohei Uchida have anything to do with that?

    Many questions I know. Anyone care to shed some light?

    Happy landings.

    NBK

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    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by NBK on Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:15 am

    johan smits wrote:Is there more material available on the bojutsu taught at the Kodokan in that time?
    If  I understand it correctly the training in (bojutsu) of Katori Shinto-ryu stopped after some time but Shindo Muso ryu was still taught.
    Did they teach tanjo or jo? And did Ryohei Uchida have anything to do with that?

    Many questions I know. Anyone care to shed some light?

    Happy landings.
    Johan,

    I can answer this quickly..... unlike Uchida Ryohei's shobu no kata!

    The primary material is that Judo magazine with a serialized introduction to the basic kata. It is very similar but not identical to the first kata in SMR jodo.

    Katori Shinto-ryu bojutsu was apparently pretty short. SMR went on for some time.

    Jo only. The tanjo in SMR was adopted from Uchida Ryogoro, Uchida Ryohei's father, but it is practiced separately, not in the main SMR kata.

    Uchda Ryoehi. Hohoho...... Not directly. By this time Uchida was not young, and very busy. I have a couple of bios of him and there is no evidence that he practiced MA into middle age. Indirectly, perhaps, as SMR and Shimizu sensei, and Uchida Ryohei, are all from Fukuoka. Kano shihan had plenty of contacts there.

    NBK


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    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by johan smits on Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:55 am

    Thanks Nbk,

    So no tanjo at all.
    I learned Uchida-ryu tanjo pretty much as was described in this post. I asked a teacher who gave me a lecture without end on how this was never done and that it was high level material in the school and that it was not possible. So that was that. Until I met a wonderful old gentleman who had nothing to do with Shindo Muso-ryu but was a member of another school. When I mentioned that I had tried to learn Uchida-ryu and told him about the answer I got he contacted an old friend of his. This turned out to be a high-ranking teacher. Within a month I was training in Uchida-ryu, no fuss at all.
    It really complements judo or jujutsu well I think.

    About Shobu no kata, As I got older I became a bit wiser (a little bit), and a lot more patient. But I will not forget. Uchida Ryohei and his tanjo and judo have held my interest for a long time.

    Happy landings.

    NBK

    Posts : 1060
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    Location : Tokyo, Japan

    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by NBK on Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:31 am

    johan smits wrote:Thanks Nbk,

    So no tanjo at all.
    I learned Uchida-ryu tanjo pretty much as was described in this post. I asked a teacher who gave me a lecture without end on how this was never done and that it was high level material in the school and that it was not possible. So that was that. Until I met a wonderful old gentleman who had nothing to do with Shindo Muso-ryu but was a member of another school. When I mentioned that I had tried to learn Uchida-ryu and told him about the answer I got he contacted an old friend of his. This turned out to be a high-ranking teacher. Within a month I was training in Uchida-ryu, no fuss at all.
    It really complements judo or jujutsu well I think.

    About Shobu no kata, As I got older I became a bit wiser (a little bit), and a lot more patient. But I will not forget. Uchida Ryohei and his tanjo and judo have held my interest for a long time.

    Happy landings.
    Johan,

    "Uchida Ryohei and his tanjo and judo have held my interest for a long time. "

    The tanjô (short jo, or baton) art called Uchida ryû tanjôjutsu and taught in Shinto Musô Ryû jôdô tradition is not from Uchida Ryôhei, but rather from his father Ryôgorô. He was a very politically active former samurai, a famous martial artist, and one of the earliest members of the Genyôsha, the Dark Ocean Society based in Fukuoka, a group of first populist, then later, expansionist ultranationalists. The famous Tôyama Mitsuru was another member / early leader.

    The early Meiji era was full of turmoil. The government outlawed open carry of the two swords of the samurai, but plenty of former samurai and toughs still carried, either swords or sword canes.

    Supposedly Ryôgorô was attacked by someone with a sword and narrowly escaped serious injury. At the time there was a trend to copy Western fashions, and the Victorian gentleman's walking stick or cane became fashionable to carry - especially if, like Ryôgorô, you were concerned with self-defense.

    Anyhow, he developed a short series of cane / walking stick counters to attacks with a sword, hence Uchida ryû. SMR jôdô is also from Fukuoka, Uchida was a practitioner, and it got picked up by the school.

    I think what the practitioner was saying is that Uchida tanjôjutsu is not taught in SMR until several years in, usually not to beginners. That's just the way it's done.

    As far as I know, Uchida ryû was never taught in the Kodokan, and is not mentioned in the articles on SMR jô.

    NBK

    johan smits

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    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by johan smits on Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:26 am

    Thanks again NBK,

    So the tanjo originated with Ryogoro Uchida. Is there anything known about the system Ryogoro developed?I seem to recall having read a story about Ryohet Uchida fighting off several opponents  with a stick before fleeing on horseback. This happened in Korea according to a very early Dutch publicatipn on jujutsu. Also if Uchida's system for tanjo existed when Kano was looking for a system to use next to judo for self defense and he was aware off and had connections within Shindo Muso-ryu why did he not choose for the tanjo? This would seem to be an obvious choice from a technical viewpoint.


    Happy landings.

    NBK

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    Location : Tokyo, Japan

    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by NBK on Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:52 pm

    http://www.kampaibudokai.org/Tanjo.htm

    johan smits

    Posts : 56
    Join date : 2013-01-22

    Re: Judo and jodo/jojutsu/kenjutsu studying for yudansha

    Post by johan smits on Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:31 pm

    NBK,
    That is a very precise answer, as straight as a stick Very Happy

    Many thanks and happy landings.

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