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    Novel demonstration of Goshin Jutsu

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    Ju no Ri

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    Novel demonstration of Goshin Jutsu

    Post by Ju no Ri on Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:18 am

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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Novel demonstration of Goshin Jutsu

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:47 am

    Ju no Ri wrote:


    I think that there is merit to this demo. The reason is the following:

    - Kôdôkan goshinjutsu is a series of defense methods, not a true kata in the traditional sense, so much more freedom and adaption should be allowed.

    - the way done in this demo makes much more sense than how most people do it. What you can see in this demo is that in some techniques tori has good control whereas in others he totally loses control. That is 'good' in a sense that it is also like that in reality, and from practising this in a situation as realistic as possible and learning when and why you lose control, you can improve yourself. After all it is improving your own judo which is the purpose of Kôdôkan goshinjutsu or any other kata, not to get points of copy as exact as possible some kind of presumed kata. YYes, sometimes the uke jumps with, but that is not different from what we see today in so many performances; certainly there are techniques here where uke is at least actually launched. You also notice immediately that the ridiculous posing we see so often today is absent. Of course one can argue about ri-ai etc, but that is somewhat besides the point.

    So, in conclusion, without suggesting that this is how we all should do it, some of the ways the actual techniques turn out to be is actually pretty close to how goshinjutsu was originally done when people like Tomiki-sensei or Takata-sensei were doing it.


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    NBK

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    Re: Novel demonstration of Goshin Jutsu

    Post by NBK on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:19 am

    I think there's a great deal of merit to the entire approach.

    Judo participation rates in Japan are dropping faster than the cohort of young people. Part of that is surely due to the violence and sexual harassment, perceived and real, in past judo training. This led to the ouster of Uemura Kodokan kancho and most of the upper Kodokan leadership last year.

    The answer was a committee led by Yamashita, a series of meetings, some slogans and posters against violence to be posted inside the dojo. I would suggest that this may no be the best face for judo for a young mom to see when she steps into a dojo - 'Stop the violence (against our own students!)!!' Hmmmm.... what could possibly go wrong?

    The 'Judo MIND' project is more positive, appealing to the positive aspects of judo.

    In Kita Ward, an area of Tokyo north of the Kodokan, there are 12 public schools among a declining population of near 350,000. I was told that today there is not a single school in Kita Ward that has a judo club - and, if I understand it currently, under the current law, if a single child requests judo instruction, the school has to provide it. And every single one of them has an empty judo dojo.

    I think that in today's Japan there are a lot of parents and kids concerned about growing violence in Japan - not sure there is actually more of it but some of it makes the news. The scenario above is part of life for too many people - loser thugs preying on someone minding their own business.

    I'm not suggesting that recruiting be changed solely to focus on practical self defense but perhaps the experiment should be tried. Nothing else has budged the needle against the decline in youth signing up for judo, it seems.

    NBK


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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Novel demonstration of Goshin Jutsu

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:12 pm


    I am just a little (well ... uh, more than "a little" concerned about what exactly uke is doing at 04'44", which seems to be going a bit further than feeling tori's pocket, as his hand is clearly moving from left to, um ... well ...

    It sort of resembled:



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    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."

    Ju no Ri

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    Re: Novel demonstration of Goshin Jutsu

    Post by Ju no Ri on Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:23 pm


    Thank you both for your comments. I have a Tokai University graduate at my club who provided me with this video ( he was in the audience watching, not participating). I must admit I had to watch it a second time before I really appreciated what I was seeing. And yes, I know that many instructors at Tokai University (and Matsumae Judo Juku) are very concerned with the harassment and violence issues that have become so prominent in the Japanese media recently. And from conversations I had with quite a few Tokai students, it is my belief that it is not a common problem at Tokai...they seem a bit more progressive than some. Anyway, back to Kata...I am no where as knowledgeable as you gentleman, and I have only had limited training in Kata...mostly I was influenced by the later Dr. Sachio Ashida, but a few times with the late Fukuda-sensei, and a few times at the Kodokan. In 2001 I attended a Kata clinic at Columbia University with special guests Abe Ichiro-sensei, Fukushima-sensei, and several young rokudans from the Kodokan. After participating for two days, what surprised me was that the younger Kodokan Sensei seemed to know a lot of details, and had certainly practiced the movements many times, but they seemed to lack any real understanding of what they were doing, and there was no "spirit" or intensity in their demonstration of the techniques...it was just kind of pantomime...no disrespect intended. With Abe, in spite of his advanced age, I felt the techniques he performed had some degree of intensity to them that was lacking in the younger instructors. I later communicated to Ashida-sensei about my observations, and also thanked him for teaching me the basics principles as I believed I was better able to understand what Abe-sensei was trying to teach as a result of his instruction...with much regret I only saw Dr. Ashida a couple of times a year due to geographical distance from him, but tried to make the most of each visit. Ashida-sensei commented on his displeasure with the some of the Kodokan videos, suggesting that the tori and uke often didn't understand what the meaning of the movements were that they were performing. And from reading comments by CK, and others, about current Kata training at the Kodokan, it seems that the observations I made in 2001 were sadly correct. I know that with Ashida-sensei, or Takata-sensei, I felt their intensity and focus (and sometimes pain) when they applied the techniques from Goshin Jutsu on me. I was wondering, in your opinion, are there any competent instructors in the US who can to teach Goshin Jutsu ( I don't mean from the international kata competition perspective...I mean someone who has detailed knowledge and understanding of the application of these techniques, and the principles behind them)? Finally, unrelated to Goshin Jutsu, I would like to make a reference to another thread involving a discussion CK's had about Kappo...specifically, he made reference to a paper that Dr. Ashida wrote on the subject, but that he had lost his copy. I do still have a copy of the paper, I believe the title was something like " Neurophysiological Correlates of Kappo". If interested, perhaps I could arrange to get you a copy. I would have liked to have seen the original as it had photos showing demonstration of the techniques...the photocopy that I have does not contain a lot of detail in the photos unfortunately. Thank you!
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    BillC

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    Re: Novel demonstration of Goshin Jutsu

    Post by BillC on Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:08 pm

    Thanks for the post JNR.

    For many of the reasons discussed, and with some encouragement from NBK, our club is holding an event intended to nudge our local judo clubs in this direction.

    You are all welcome!

    http://www.pacificsouthwestjudo.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Judo-Self-Defense-Seminar.pdf

    " />


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    NBK

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    Re: Novel demonstration of Goshin Jutsu

    Post by NBK on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:30 am

    Ju no Ri wrote:
    Thank you both for your comments.
    .....And yes, I know that many instructors at Tokai University (and Matsumae Judo Juku) are very concerned with the harassment and violence issues that have become so prominent in the Japanese media recently.
    ...In 2001 I attended a Kata clinic at Columbia University with special guests Abe Ichiro-sensei, Fukushima-sensei, and several young rokudans from the Kodokan. After participating for two days, what surprised me was that the younger Kodokan Sensei seemed to know a lot of details, and had certainly practiced the movements many times, but they seemed to lack any real understanding of what they were doing, and there was no "spirit" or intensity in their demonstration of the techniques...it was just kind of pantomime...no disrespect intended. With Abe, in spite of his advanced age,  I felt the techniques he performed had some degree of intensity to them that was lacking in the younger instructors.......
    Ashida-sensei commented on his displeasure with the some of the Kodokan videos, suggesting that the tori and uke often didn't understand what the meaning of the movements were that they were performing. And from reading comments by CK, and others, about current Kata training at the Kodokan, it seems that the observations I made in 2001 were sadly correct. I know that with Ashida-sensei, or Takata-sensei, I felt their intensity and focus (and sometimes pain) when they applied the techniques from Goshin Jutsu on me. I was wondering, in your opinion, are there any competent instructors in the US who can to teach Goshin Jutsu ( I don't mean from the international kata competition perspective...I mean someone who has detailed knowledge and understanding of the application of these techniques, and the principles behind them)? ....If interested, perhaps I could arrange to get you a copy. I would have liked to have seen the original as it had photos showing demonstration of the techniques...the photocopy that I have does not contain a lot of detail in the photos unfortunately. Thank you!
    I haven't looked to see where you live but the seminar below will be given by one of the foremost experts in Kodokan Goshinjutsu in the world.

    Sato Tadayuki sensei, the gent who will teach the seminar, is the shihan of Waseda University's Shodokan Aikido (i.e., 'Tomiki ryu aikido') club.  His father, a very senior and accomplished judoka, sent him off to take judo from some of the senior judoka in Tokyo.  He became a deshi of Tomiki Kenji sensei at Waseda University in Shodokan Aikido?  

    What's the aikibujutsu / aikido connection to Kodokan Goshinjutsu?  

    Tomiki Kenji sensei, one of the key members of the committee that established Kodokan Goshinjutsu (although not the most senior) was a remarkable budoka.  Born in 1900, he went to college in Tokyo from high school as a 2 or 3 dan in judo.   After he graduated from college he became one of the very first Tokyo students of Ueshiba Morihei, the founder of Aikido.  When Ueshiba sensei was engaged by the Japanese military to teach aikibujutsu, the martial art he compiled prior to establishing 'aikido', in places such as the Nakano Military Police Academy, the Nakano School for spies, and the Imperial Navy, Ueshiba sensei was asked by a young Japanese Army colonel to provide an instructor in Manchuria for the Kanto-gun Imperial Japanese Army Military Police. That Colonel (later General and Prime Minister) was Tojo Hideki (who was himself primarily a kenjutsuka / swordsman).  In 1942 Ueshiba sensei went to Manchuria to personally promote Tomiki sensei to the world's first aikido 8 dan.  

    Tomiki Kenji sensei taught judo and aikibujutsu in Manchuria for around 8 years, then at the end of the war was imprisoned in a Soviet prison camp for a couple of years.  When he was released, he returned to Tokyo and worked at the Kodokan as a part time secretary, where he continued to hone his aikibujutsu with my judo and jujutsu instructor, Sato Shizuya, who worked in the International Division of the Kodokan.  

    To shorten the story, Tomiki sensei and Sato sensei taught what Tomiki sensei called 'aikido' to US military personnel in the 1950's but it was primarily the wartime 'aikibujutsu'.  

    When Tomiki contributed to, in fact greatly shaped Kodokan Goshinjutsu, he includeded a very clear influence of the aikibujutsu.  

    Sato Tadayuki sensei understands the original intent and techniques of Kodokan Goshinjutsu perhaps better than anyone else on the planet now, as he was a personal student of Tomiki sensei and is simple a great instructor.  If you want to see the details of what Kodokan Goshinjutsu is supposed to incorporate, I suggest you attend the seminar below if possible.  

    Regarding 'riai', or the principle of a technique / kata, that's a complicated discussion that will not earn me any friends if I tackle it here.  Let's leave it at something like...  it is important to understand the basic principle of the kata.

    BillC wrote:Thanks for the post JNR.

    For many of the reasons discussed, and with some encouragement from NBK, our club is holding an event intended to nudge our local judo clubs in this direction.

    You are all welcome!

    http://www.pacificsouthwestjudo.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Judo-Self-Defense-Seminar.pdf

    " />
    This should be a great seminar, and it's a great facility.  I recommend it highly on many many levels - not just goshinjutsu, not just judo, but from multiple complex levels.   I learn more from Sato sensei than from a half dozen other excellent sensei.  I am jealous to the point that I'm checking with Mrs. NBK if I can go, too.  

    NBK

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