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    Kanos examples of Seiryoku Zenyo or Jita Kyoei for everyday life

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    Anatol

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    Re: Kanos examples of Seiryoku Zenyo or Jita Kyoei for everyday life

    Post by Anatol on Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:05 am

    Just repeating one of my former postings to see the context:

    "Prof. Kano’s penname, until he was 60, was “Kônan (甲南).” During his 60's, he wrote under the name “Shinkosaï (進乎斎)” changing it again to “Ki-Issaï (帰一斎)” in his 70’s.

    The name “Kônan” was chosen after Rokko mountain (六甲山) near Kano’s hometown, and hence this was chosen as his first penname.

    “Shinkosaï” was inspired by a phrase of Zhuangzi (荘子), an ancient Chinese philosopher. Echoing an ancient story regarding a cook who valued “the way” more than skills, Prof. Kano intended to include the value-based meaning in his penname “Shinkosaï” stressing the importance of pursuing one's path as a human being rather than acquiring skills."

    Most important:

    You have to understand the classical chinese concepts and ideas of the hundred schools of thought (諸子百家), to draw your own conclusions, because as Kano was a japanese scholar at the end of the 19th century to the beginning of the 20th century  the Laozi (Daode Jing) doesn't arise out of nowhere and also even translations of sinologists have their shortcuts, limitations in style and poetry, flaws, personal bias and affinities.




    Kano emphases the "De" in a traditional confucian meaning as learning and selfperfection, benevolence and righteousness to contribute to a better society. In classical daoism the "De" of confucianism is rejected as a beginning of separation from the Dao and from naturalness and simplicity.

    Laozi 38

    上德不德,是以有德;下德不失德,是以無德。上德無為而無以為;下德為之而有以為。上仁為之而無以為;上義為之而有以為。上禮為之而莫之應,則攘臂而扔之。故失道而後德,失德而後仁,失仁而後義,失義而後禮。夫禮者,忠信之薄,而亂之首。前識者,道之華,而愚之始。是以大丈夫處其厚,不居其薄;處其實,不居其華。故去彼取此。


    A man of the highest virtue does not keep to virtue and that is whyhe has virtue.
    A man of the lowest virtue never strays from virtue and that is whyhe is without virtue.
    The former never acts yet leaves nothing undone.
    The latter acts but there are things left undone.
    A man of the highest benevolence acts, but from no ulterior motive.
    A man of the highest rectitude acts, but from ulterior motive.
    A man most conversant in the rites acts, but when no one responds rollsup his sleeves and resorts to persuasion by force.

    Hence when the way was lost there was virtue;
    When virtue was lost there was benevolence;
    When benevolence was lost there was rectitude;
    When rectitude was lost there were the rites.

    ...

    Laozi 48

    為學日益,為道日損。損之又損,以至於無為。無為而無不為

    In the pursuit of learning one knows more every day;
    In the pursuit of the way one does less every day.
    One does less and less until one does nothing at all, and when onedoes nothing at all there is nothing that is undone.



    Classic Daoism renewals "De" in its oldest meanings as power or old (highest) virtue (like arete in greek). There is a very well written long paper in english devoted to the developments and meanings of "De" in ancient china, written by Scott Barnwell (pdf file):

    http://www.sino-platonic.org/complete/spp235_de_character_early_China.pdf


    The Daoist "De" is more like the "shan" = zen as in "zeiryoku zenyo" as "good" and "virtuous" in a most matching/fitting way with nature, naturalness and simplicity and not as a human concept/idea to correct the way (dao) of society with etiquette and laws.



    This kind of "De" is also very interesting for Judoka (at least for me ...), because of "best use of energy" or "minimum effort, maximum efficiency" and "to fit in in a perfect way".


    Zhuangzi 19.13

    The Artisan

    The artisan Chui made things round (and square) more exactly than if he had used the circle and square. The operation of his fingers on (the forms of) things was like the transformations of them (in nature), and required no application of his mind; and so his Intelligence was entire and encountered no resistance. To be unthought of by the foot that wears it is the fitness of a shoe; to be unthought of by the waist is the fitness of a girdle. When one's wisdom does not think of the right or the wrong (of a question under discussion), that shows the suitability of the mind (for the question); when one is conscious of no inward change, or outward attraction, that shows the mastery of affairs. He who perceives at once the fitness, and never loses the sense of it, has the fitness that forgets all about what is fitting.

    (translated by Legge)


    Zhuangzi 3.2.:

    The Cook

    His cook was cutting up an ox for the ruler Wen Hui. Whenever he applied his hand, leaned forward with his shoulder, planted his foot, and employed the pressure of his knee, in the audible ripping off of the skin, and slicing operation of the knife, the sounds were all in regular cadence. Movements and sounds proceeded as in the dance of 'the Mulberry Forest' and the blended notes of the King Shou.' The ruler said, 'Ah! Admirable! That your art should have become so perfect!' (Having finished his operation), the cook laid down his knife, and replied to the remark, 'What your servant loves is the method of the Dao, something in advance of any art. When I first began to cut up an ox, I saw nothing but the (entire) carcase. After three years I ceased to see it as a whole. Now I deal with it in a spirit-like manner, and do not look at it with my eyes. The use of my senses is discarded, and my spirit acts as it wills. Observing the natural lines, (my knife) slips through the great crevices and slides through the great cavities, taking advantage of the facilities thus presented. My art avoids the membranous ligatures, and much more the great bones. A good cook changes his knife every year; (it may have been injured) in cutting - an ordinary cook changes his every month - (it may have been) broken. Now my knife has been in use for nineteen years; it has cut up several thousand oxen, and yet its edge is as sharp as if it had newly come from the whetstone. There are the interstices of the joints, and the edge of the knife has no (appreciable) thickness; when that which is so thin enters where the interstice is, how easily it moves along! The blade has more than room enough. Nevertheless, whenever I come to a complicated joint, and see that there will be some difficulty, I proceed anxiously and with caution, not allowing my eyes to wander from the place, and moving my hand slowly. Then by a very slight movement of the knife, the part is quickly separated, and drops like (a clod of) earth to the ground. Then standing up with the knife in my hand, I look all round, and in a leisurely manner, with an air of satisfaction, wipe it clean, and put it in its sheath.' The ruler Wen Hui said, 'Excellent! I have heard the words of my cook, and learned from them the nourishment of (our) life.'

    (translated by Legge)


    Zhuangzi 19.10:

    The Swimmer

    Confucius was looking at the cataract near the gorge of Lu, which fell a height of 240 cubits, and the spray of which floated a distance of forty li, (producing a turbulence) in which no tortoise, gavial, fish, or turtle could play. He saw, however, an old man swimming about in it, as if he had sustained some great calamity, and wished to end his life. Confucius made his disciples hasten along the stream to rescue the man; and by the time they had gone several hundred paces, he was walking along singing, with his hair dishevelled, and enjoying himself at the foot of the embankment. Confucius followed and asked him, saying, 'I thought you were a sprite; but, when I look closely at you, I see that you are a man. Let me ask if you have any particular way of treading the water.' The man said, 'No, I have no particular way. I began (to learn the art) at the very earliest time; as I grew up, it became my nature to practise it; and my success in it is now as sure as fate. I enter and go down with the water in the very centre of its whirl, and come up again with it when it whirls the other way. I follow the way of the water, and do nothing contrary to it of myself - this is how I tread it.' Confucius said, 'What do you mean by saying that you began to learn the art at the very earliest time; that as you grew up, it became your nature to practise it, and that your success in it now is as sure as fate?' The man replied, 'I was born among these hills and lived contented among them - that was why I say that I have trod this water from my earliest time. I grew up by it, and have been happy treading it - that is why I said that to tread it had become natural to me. I know not how I do it, and yet I do it - that is why I say that my success is as sure as fate.'

    (translated by Legge)
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    noboru

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    What does "Jundo Seisho" (Accordance with the Way Overcomes Winning) mean?

    Post by noboru on Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:30 pm



    http://kodokanjudoinstitute.org/en/doctrine/word/jundo-seisho/

    What does "Jundo Seisho" (Accordance with the Way Overcomes Winning) mean?
    The true purpose of the Kodokan is something far greater. In the dojo, we may become distracted by matters right before our eyes such as winning or losing, so we often end up thinking about the rationale that naturally occurs for winning or losing, and neglecting our efforts to cultivate virtue in the space between them. Therefore, if we seek to fully achieve results by following the discipline of Judo in order to cultivate the body, wisdom, and virtue, then we must make particular efforts to use our resources and engage in practice with that in mind.
    The matches between schools I have observed in recent years have made me wonder whether the participants have forgotten the lofty purpose of Judo, and mistakenly think that the purpose of Judo lies in matters right before their eyes such as winning or losing. If one wins, one must win in accord with the Way, and if one loses, one must lose in accord with the Way. Even if one loses while acting in accord with the Way, there is greater value than if one wins by departing from the Way.
    One aspect of Judo is the discipline of competition. At the same time, Judo is a method for training the body and cultivating wisdom and virtue. As these disciplines result in greater strength in competition, Judo must also achieve these other purposes.
    During matches between schools, however, when one side takes the offensive, the other side often simply retreats, so the two sides never have the opportunity to use their techniques on each other. Not only does this way of holding a match lack value in training the body, but it is also uninteresting and gives both sides few opportunities to exercise their resourcefulness. It also leads to one side looking down on the other as cowards, and that state of mind will naturally be manifested in their behavior. The other side will realize that they were behaving in a cowardly manner, but they will still end up feeling negatively toward their opponents. As just one example, if something like this happens frequently, then ultimately the matches do not bring the schools into harmony with each other, but instead cause discord. This is not the fault of Judo. We must consider it the fault of those who used Judo wrongly.
    You may then wonder whether this way of holding matches is appropriate as a discipline in competition itself. It is not at all. When schools hold a match, winning or losing is not the purpose. The real purpose is ensuring that when the need arises—although we can't know when this will be—we will not blunder in taking action that determines victory or defeat. Matches between schools are no more than one kind of practice in the course of our discipline. That is why what is important in matches is not winning or losing, but rather the commitment to cultivating our real abilities so that we will not lose when a match takes place in deadly earnest. However, if we do not bring our strengths fully into play with each other, but instead only run away from each other or devise defensive measures, this is neither interesting nor allows us to make progress in our abilities. That is why engaging in a match with this kind of attitude is not advisable from any perspective.
    When a match between schools is held in a sensible manner, then not only is it interesting, but it is of course effective as physical training and it also yields considerable results for the cultivation of wisdom and virtue. Furthermore, it is an appropriate method for promoting the spread of Judo.
    When a match is held between schools with the goal of fully achieving that purpose, then the thinking of both sides in the match must conform totally to the Judo spirit. First of all, as I explained earlier, neither winning nor losing is the main purpose of the match. It is a secondary purpose. The main purpose is to refine our own abilities through that experience, and practice acting as hosts to the other side and having friendly contact with people from the other school. We should enjoy matching our techniques against those of people from the other school. We should wonder what kinds of techniques these people with whom we don't usually have matches might have. Will they use some totally unexpected technique on us so that we lose? Since they don't know our techniques, what kinds of mistakes will the other side make? This is not just a match of Judo techniques. It is a chance to compare the spirit and attitudes that we have cultivated through the discipline of Judo with the spirit and attitudes of our counterparts, and if there is any area where we don't match up, to find out how we can learn from them, or if we are ahead in an area, how we can guide them. We are currently from different schools but someday we will both be responsible adults working in our society, so we should take this opportunity to become friendly with each other. We should make the effort now so that someday when we are out in the world together, we won't have the kind of small-minded attitude that could divide us just because we attended different schools. We must hold matches of this kind with this mindset. If matches between schools take place in a spirit like this, then I expect the kinds of difficulties about which we have been hearing up to now to disappear, and all the headmasters to join together in encouraging matches between their schools.
    It is regrettable but must be acknowledged that matters have not yet progressed to that point. Ultimately, this is because the spirit of Judo culture is not yet being manifested. The technique of Judo is important. It is precious. However, if technique existed all on its own and was not accompanied by the cultivation of wisdom and virtue, then society would not place so much value on Judo experts. Technique separate from cultivation in other areas is comparable to the technique of tumblers. I would not consider it worthy of any particular respect. People who pursue the discipline of Judo gain the ability to make a significant contribution to society because they have accumulated experience in studying and practicing both literary and martial arts, and then they also become worthy of the respect of people in society.
    *** Today there are hundreds of thousands or even millions of Kodokan Judo practitioners, and I would like all of them to taste what Judo truly is. Beyond that, there are people who have not yet even entered into the practice of Judo, and I would like to bring the benefits of Judo to them as well.

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    柔道十二訓 Judo’s 12 Precepts

    Post by noboru on Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:52 am

    Below is translations of some Kanos Judo’s 12 Precepts - Kanô Jigorô from years 1930 - 1935. I search points 11 and 12 very interesting. It could be short "Kano's manual for orientation in everyday life". :-)


    Lance wrote:
    Here's a very rare writing by Kanô shihan, and I just took a (very!!) rough cut at a translation; it is very indirect and complex.
    柔道十二訓 Judo’s 12 Precepts - Kanô Jigorô, 1930
    Practicing jûdô as Budô
    1. Practice kata and randori as carefully as if your opponent is armed with a live sword.
    2. Do not forget that the objective of jûdô study is to improve every day, not to win or lose.
    3. Jûdô practice is not limited to the dojo.

    Practicing jûdô as Physical Exercise
    4. Avoid dangerous techniques and optimize your exercise to train your body.
    5. Do not neglect proper food, sleep and rest.
    6. Exercise correctly, not carelessly, in accordance with proper principles.

    Practicing jûdô as Spiritual Training
    7. Conduct kata and randori with your best effort.
    8. Endeavor to practice not only with your powers of judgement, but also with your powers of intuition.
    9. It is necessary to consider others’ reactions to you in your self reflection.

    Practicing jûdô principles in Daily Life
    10. In the basics of your daily life, bear in mind the principle of ‘Seiryoku Zenyô Jita Kyôei’ .
    11. When faced with occasional inconsistencies in your teachings, keep in mind the principle of ‘Seiryoku Zenyô Jita Kyôei’.
    12. When faced with many pressures, even the daily necessities of life in mind, one by one consider your problems, keeping in mind the principle of ‘Seiryoku Zenyô Jita Kyôei’.

    Draft translation July 2016
    Lance Gatling, Director / Instructor, Embassy Judo
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    noboru

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    Points for Dan holders (yudansha) from Jigoro Kano - 1935

    Post by noboru on Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:57 am

    Next translation from Lance - points for Yudansha from Jigoro Kano - 1935

    Lance wrote:The rules of the Kodokan Yudanshakai (Dan Grade Holders Association, i.e., 1 dan and higher ranks) circa 1935. Rules that make a lot of sense today.
    1. Yudansha must constantly exhibit the spirit of Kodokan Judo.
    2. Yudansha must master the essence of judo through constant, exhaustive training and polishing of their character by being exemplars for less experienced judoka.
    3. Yudansha must abide by the rules of judo and take the initiative to kindly show less experienced judoka the rules.
    4. Yudansha must exhaust all efforts and take advantage of cooperation to develop and diffuse judo.
    5. Yudansha with opinions regarding judo should offer them to Shihan (i.e., Master Kano) through the Kodokan Management Division.
    Translated by Lance Gatling
    Embassy Judo
    Director / Instructor
    Jan 2017
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    NBK

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    Re: Kanos examples of Seiryoku Zenyo or Jita Kyoei for everyday life

    Post by NBK on Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:09 pm

    I don't think either of the above 2 - the 12 precepts and instructions to yudansha - have ever been translated before.

    The first in particular was a surprise to me, written mid-1930s. By that time Kano shihan had a very clear image of judo as a sort of secular philosophy, but that ran afoul of the predominate imperialist / militarist thought. He did write of the responsibilities for Japanese to be good subjects, but apparently wanted judo to be more universal.

    Some short time after the 12 precepts were published in a book only published in very small numbers, there was essentially a revolt in the Kodokan board. Kano shihan was almost pushed out of his position as 'kancho', the head of the Kodokan. I think the two are not necessarily unrelated - while Imperial and militarist rationale was used to justify most everything, including kendo, sumo, you name it, Kano shihan remained opposed.

    But after putative board revolt, Kano shihan did change. There's not a lot written about it, but there is some evidence.

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    noboru

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    beginning and ending with respect (a bow)

    Post by noboru on Thu May 03, 2018 7:53 pm

    Source: http://www.judo-ch.jp/english/kanou_life/kanou/10/


    Jigoro Kano and the Olympics
    The death of Jigoro

    Jigoro did not return to Japan immediately after Tokyo won its hosting bid in Cairo. Instead, he attended the memorial service being held for Baron de Coubertin in Athens. He then traveled to the United States via Italy and France. In the United States, he met with the other IOC (International Olympic Committee) members and thanked them for their cooperation in Japan's bid to host the Olympics, and requested their help in ensuring that as many athletes as possible participate. This was very much in keeping with Jigoro's Judo creed of "beginning and ending with respect (a bow)". Having completed this duty, Jigoro boarded a ship for Japan, and died en route, never to set foot in his homeland again. His advanced age, combined with fatigue from the journey, had brought on pneumonia.

    Jigoro's life thus ended without his witnessing the Tokyo Olympics for which he had worked so diligently. His last words show that he was thinking of Judo to the very end: "Photographs are a good way to depict "Kata" (form) ... ".
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    Memories of Jigoro Kano's Visit to the London Budokwai in August 1933

    Post by noboru on Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:52 pm

    Mr. Leggett remembered about Jigoro Kano speech in London Budokai in 1933. There are some nice examples and explanation of ideas Seiryoku Zenyo.

    Souce http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_leggett1_0300.htm

    -------------------
    Memories of Jigoro Kano's Visit to the London Budokwai in August 1933
    By Trevor Leggett
    Reprinted courtesy of Richard Bowen and the Budokwai, http://www.budokwai.org. Copyright ©️ 2000. All rights reserved.

    At that time the Budokwai was in small premises near Victoria Station. It was originally one of a small line of shops, including a little restaurant. It was a side street; the other side of the street was the high wall of Buckingham Palace grounds. The Budokwai had a ground floor dojo of about twenty tatami; the basement was another dojo of the same size, and the showers and changing rooms.

    I was a young judo enthusiast of under twenty years when Dr. Kano came with Mr. Sumiyuki Kotani and Mr. Masami Takasaki. We were able to become members of the Kodokan, and I received from Dr. Kano a Ni-kyu certificate. Dr. Kano watched two English Budokwai members performing Nage-no-kata, and then Mr. Gunji Koizumi and Mr. Yukio Tani perforing Ju-no-kata. Koizumi had introduced some of his own ideas into the kata, and I heard that Dr. Kano remarked: "That is a modification of Ju-no-kata." He himself demonstrated a couple of the Itsutsu-no-kata. It must have been very difficult in the confined space. He made a little explanation for the English members, in his impeccable "Headmaster's English". (I mean by this that each word was separately and clearly pronounced, as an English Headmaster does to set a good example of correct pronunciation to pupils.) He told us that it would be difficult for us to understand the principles shown in the Itsutsu-no-kata. He added, with an unexpected touch of humour: "It is even more difficult to perform it. I myself have been studying it for over forty years, and I think I can now perform the first three correctly!"

    On one of the days of his visit, he had been invited to an afternoon garden party at Buckingham Palace. It was arranged that he would come on to the Budokwai (which did not open till about 6 p.m. -- the members all had jobs which they could not leave till about 5:30.) As it happened, Dr. Kano left the Buckingham Palace party at about 5. He was wearing Court dress, which in those days was magnificently decorated with gold braid. As the Budokwai was so close to the Palace, he walked, but found it still closed. It was a warm sunny day, and he had not brought a raincoat. The Budokwai secretary arrived in a hurry just before 6; he looked in at the little restaurant next to the Budokwai, and (as he told me later), he saw this wonderful old Japanese man in full Court dress, sitting very upright and drinking tea, without any sign of embarrassment, before the amazed gaze of a few other customers in the tea shop.
    Jigoro Kano doing kata
    I heard that on this same European trip, the coach in which Dr. Kano was travelling in Italy went off the mountain road, and nearly over the cliff edge. As it hung there perilously with half its length in space, some of the Italian passengers were almost hysterical with fear, but Dr. Kano sat undisturbed till they were able to climb to safety. (I heard this story at second-hand, so I cannot vouch for its truth in details, but certainly something of the sort happened. Perhaps what I have set down here may confirm some other more direct account.)

    In London, Dr. Kano gave a public talk on the principles of judo to an audience of about 250 I should estimate, at the drill hall off Kensington High Street. We had expected it to consist largely of demonstrations of technique, and though he did show some movements, the main part of the talk was on intellectual and philosophic lines. This was a considerable surprise to most of the British audience, but his obvious intellectual capacity, combined with his almost magical charisma as founder of the mysterious judo, completely captivated the audience for nearly two hours.

    He illustrated in various ways Saidai Noritsu Genri, which he translated for us as the principle of maximum efficiency. He said that goldfish in a tank could not live without some green stuff, but if there were too much, they could not live either. This particular example did not mean anything to me, as my family had never kept goldfish. But I was fascinated with the point, that to use too much force was against the principle of judo. Before going to university I had asked about the courses. I had been told that taking notes of the professors' lectures was an important and tiring job. So in the three months before going to London University, I learned shorthand, and got to a good speed, 160 words a minute. The high-speed instructor told us that it would be impossible unless we held the pen or pencil about halfway up, and very lightly but firmly. After this training, I had noticed that most of the British people held the pen rather tightly and near the point. This meant that they had to move the hand along the paper after nearly every word. I had noticed casually that this seemed very inefficient. But when I heard Dr. Kano speak of his principle of maximum efficiency as applying not only to technique on the mats but throughout life, I suddenly had a realization of what he meant. The principle could be applied in the smallest things of life as well as the largest things. Too much force -- holding the pen too tightly -- was as bad as too little force -- holding the pen too loosely. I understood that my whole nation, in one of our most common activities, namely writing -- had not understood the principle of maximum efficiency.

    Another point he made was that this universal principle could be learnt in various ways -- for example, through commercial activity. But, he said, one of the best ways was through judo practice. He said that judo practice was a very good way to learn (1) self-control, (2) will: how to actualize long-term goals by suppressing short-term desires, and (3) mutual co-operation, rising above a superficial conflict to give mutual aid and benefit. British people were familiar with some of these points. For instance, we had long had a tradition about sport, that it should be training in character: one tries very hard, but one is not cast down in failure, nor over-elated by success. But the sporting tradition had nothing like the scope of Dr. Kano's principle, and it was already becoming eroded by professionalism. As a matter of fact, Dr. Kano was against having judo championships for this very reason, thinking that it probably would destroy the character-forming aspects of judo. In this he seems to have been right.

    One of the things that puzzled us was Dr. Kano's insistence that the principles of judo (maximum efficiency: mutual aid and concession leading to mutual welfare and benefit) are all-pervading, though developed in Japan. He said repeatedly that these are not national things, but universal. I could not understand why he insisted on this point; I thought it was obvious. After all, Newton had discovered gravity, but it was not an English thing but a universal principle applying everywhere. Roentgen had discovered X-rays, but they were not German. Why was Dr. Kano emphasizing that judo principles were not specially Japanese, but all-pervading? He added that other branches of budo such as kendo were specialized applications of the universal principle of judo, namely maximum efficiency and mutual aid. It was not till I went to Japan towards the end of the 1930s that I understood why Dr. Kano insisted on this point, and how brave he was in doing so. He saw that Japan's future role would be to contribute to world culture, and not regard itself as a closed and superior society. I realized clearly the nature of that nationalism; high-minded though it undoubtedly sometimes was, I heard Admiral Jiro Nango give an address at the Dojo-biraki in 1940. He said that although Dr. Kano had seemed sometimes to say that kendo and budo in general were applications of the principles of judo, it would be truer to say that judo, like the other branches of budo, were in fact manifestations of the Japanese spirit of Yamato damashii.

    Hearing this I realized what a clear-sighted man Dr. Kano was.
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    Re: Kanos examples of Seiryoku Zenyo or Jita Kyoei for everyday life

    Post by noboru on Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:55 pm

    Leggett wrote:He illustrated in various ways Saidai Noritsu Genri, which he translated for us as the principle of maximum efficiency. He said that goldfish in a tank could not live without some green stuff, but if there were too much, they could not live either. This particular example did not mean anything to me, as my family had never kept goldfish.

    I don't understand the menaing of this sentence in relation with Seiryoku Zenyo or relation in article: "He said that goldfish in a tank could not live without some green stuff, but if there were too much, they could not live either."

    Please can you explain me it. Thank you a lot with your comments.
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    Re: Kanos examples of Seiryoku Zenyo or Jita Kyoei for everyday life

    Post by finarashi on Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:53 am

    IMHO it is not very good analogy. Kano tried to illustrate that too little is too little and too much is too much. Fish can not live in a fish tank that is filled with algae. Similarily fish feel better with algae in the fish tank than with a bare fish tank. So obviously we find a balance between too much and too little. Similarily in Judo when you do randori with lower grades (or much lower weight) you should not attack with full force nor resist so that they can not throw you. Yes you can throw them but they do not learn anything. Best development is achieved when you try to trick them into "falling to nothing" and they might catch you because you are not using full force but relaxed, appropriate effort with regard of the opponent.


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    noboru

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    searching most effective count algae in fish tank for fishes

    Post by noboru on Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:59 am

    Oh so. Thank you. I understand now. It is about searching most effective way (how much) / count algae in fish tank for fishes.
    Thank you.
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    NBK

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    Re: Kanos examples of Seiryoku Zenyo or Jita Kyoei for everyday life

    Post by NBK on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:59 am

    The 15 volume (14 + index / timeline volume) Kano Jigoro Taikei devotes an entire book to the articles Kano shihan wrote about Seiryoku Zen'yo.

    I've scanned those articles, and they are tough reading. I've seen Japanese try to write about the concept and expand on it, and to my not so informed self, none does a very good job of explaining it.

    But Leggett's notes have some very interesting tidbits scattered throughout, so are worth reading and considering.
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    noboru

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    Re: Kanos examples of Seiryoku Zenyo or Jita Kyoei for everyday life

    Post by noboru on Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:16 am

    Next one from T.P.Leggett with some Knao quotes. Is here explanation about fishes in tank too...
    From source: https://www.tlayt.org/too-much-man-too-little-man/

    All articles from Leggett about júdó:
    https://www.tlayt.org/judo/

    Too much Man, Too little Man
    by tlayt | Jun 18, 2016 | Budo, Judo


    The principle of Maximum Efficiency — Saidai Noritus Genii,was stated in these words by Dr.Jigoro Kano. When I was sixteen, I heard him explain it, in his beautiful English, at the Judo hall in London. He said that it applies in every action in life: do not use too much force, and do not use too little. Use exactly the amount of force that is necessary. To do this, he said, is Right Use, Zen-Yo. He slso told us that this is the true meaning of the word Ju in Ju-do; to use too much force is Wrong Use, what he called Hardness or Go-do.

    (The next day, he brushed some huge Chinese characters on a long roll of paper; it was framed and hung high on the wall of thd judo dojo in London. The words were read and then translated for us: Ju Sai Sai Go o sei-su: ‘the gentle Ju indeed controls the forcible Go’.)

    In the lecture, he said that Zen-Yo or Right Use applied not only to the amount of force to be used, but also to the amount of material. He gave the example of a tank of goldfish. If the water is absolutely pure, the fish will die. There must be some green plants in it. But if there is too much green stuff, then too the fish will die. In order to live, the fish must have the right balance; Wrong Use—lack of balance—brings failure. That was the conclusion.

    Well, he gave the talk to an audience of judo enthusiats, and of course we all listend with respect and even reverence to Dr.Jigoro Kano, the founder of judo. But as I sat there, I began to think: ‘Most of it is obvious. Why is he saying all this? It is self-evident. If I want to hammer in a nail, but don’t hit with enough force, of coure the nail won’t go in; and if I hit too hard, the nail will probably bend and the wood will be split. We don’t need to be told that sort of thing’. (Like many 16-year-olds, I was full of confidence in my own ideas.)

    The only point where I did not agree was his statement that unnecessary force will bring failure. I thought: ‘No, that is not always true. The greater force contains the lesser force. So if greater force is used, it may sometimes succeed. If one hits too weakly, the nail will never go in.

    But if one hits even very strongly, sometimes the nail will go in, though it will make a big Bang! But that is not necessarily a failure’. As to the goldfish, I had never kept any, and it made no real impression on me. I understood what he was saying, but I did not feel it had anything to do with me.

    Then he gave some examples from judo, which I found really interesting.

    So I came away from the lecture a bit dissatisfied. I could not understand why such a great man should waste his time telling us what everyone already knew. But I did not forget the talk. He had a remarkable presence, which in a way awed even the cheeky 16-year-old who was determined not to be over awed by anyone or anything. I came to know that Dr.Kano had been a big figure in Japanese education. Then from time to time I would find myself thinking: ‘What did he do it for? Why did he say these obvious things?’ Gradually I got the idea that there must be something which I had failed to grasp.

    I came to see that Dr.Kano was not speaking about single incidents like hammering a nail, or keeping goldfish: he was talking about attitudes in life. There are people(was I one?) who always speak louder than needed, who close doors with a bang. In an argument, even when they could convince by reason, they try also to frighten others by using advantages of strength or money or status. In judo or Shogi or in life generally, they are always attacking, whether it is sensivle or not, and whether there is an opportunity or not. It is always Too Much.

    Then there are others who do not want to commit themselves to any complete action; they try a little, and then wait to see how it turns out. It is always Too Little.

    I slowly realized that we have to control our natural tendency, whether it is Too Much or Too Little, in order to change it into balanced Right Use of our actions and lives.

    At first this seemed to be impossible. It would mean thinking about it all the time. For instance my elder brother was a Too Much man: When he stirred a cup of tea, he moved the spoon strongly, using the whole arm as in his boxing punch(he was a fine amateur boxer). It made a noticeable clink! It was somehow challenging and aggressive. When he was a boy, occasionally my mother would say to him: ‘Don’t stir like that. Do it quietly’. The next few times, he would take care and make no noise when he stirred, though he still used the whole arm. But that lasted only while he was thinking about it; he soon forgot, and everything was as before, ^ooking at many similar cases, I concluded that it would be impossible to act against one’s Too much or Too little mature for long.

    But something about Dr.Kano’s words haunted me: such a great man would not be recommending the impossible. I began to observe some things which I had never really noticed before. When my boxer brother did things, he confronted them, almost ready to fight with them. He wanted to establish mastery over the spoon, to conquer it, so to speak. Then I noticed some of my fellow students at London University stirring their own tea in the canteen. Some of them would put only the head of the spoon into the cup, and cautiously stir the surface of the tea by moving just the fingers. It took them some time to dissolve the sugar. They were Too Little men, and it was as though they were a bit apprehensive—of something, it was not clear what.

    I began to see this contrast everywhere: the Too Much men were ready to fight things, they almost hated them; whereas the Too Little men distrusted things, and in fact feared them. I applied the analysis to myself, of course; was I a Too Much man or a Too Little man? I came to a conclusion, but why should I tell anyone else?

    Well, I had got something deeper from Dr.Kano’s remarks, but the problem still remained: how can we bring our Too Much or Too Little to a balance? I know now that I had seen examples of the answer at home in Britain and in other countries where I had been. But I did not recognize it clearly till I went to Japan. I had known it vaguely, but in Japan it stood out clear to see.

    The Too Much man hates the material (or man) he deals with; the Too Little man fears it. What does the Man of Balance do? I saw in Japan not only artists but ordinary people, who loved the material they were using. They seemed to become one with it, to enter its very nature. I watched a carpenter take up a piece of wood to shape it. He did not know anyone could see him. Before he began, I saw him stroke the wood with his fingertips, as if it had been the arm of a child: ‘I won’t hurt you’. It was a surprise to me that when he did begin to plane, he pulled the plane towards him, instead of pushing it away as we do: it was an introduction to Japan as a ‘pulling’ nation as against the British ‘push’. He handled the plane gently but firmly, just in accord with the nature of the wood and Dr.Kano’s principle of Maximum Efficiency.

    This was the solution to the problem: it is not that the Too Much man deliberately uses less force, or the Too Little man consciously makes himself use more. That still leaves the question: how much less, or how much more? The answer is to become one with the action and the material. Whoever it may be, there is no difficulty when I am doing something to his own body: for instance, if I clean my finger nails, I know exactly how much force to use. I never wound my fingers by too much force, or leave them dirty by using too little. I instinctively use exactly the right amount. And it should be so in life generally.

    It may be a surprise to know that Churchill, the greatest orator in Britain for a century, was at first rather shy when talking to strangers. An experienced friend told him: ‘Realize that they are all like you: they are all shy. You must put them at ease’. He soon became fully confident in speaking. Again, a war hero famous for his daring in hand-to-hand fighting, said when he received the Victoria Cross, the highest award for bravery: ‘As a boy I was terrified of fighting. But I realized that they were just as frightened of me as I was of them. After that, I never hesitated’.

    In ordinary life, at a meeting some people will shout too much, while others are frightened and are not heard. But if a person feels that he is one with the audience, he will know how they feel, and he will find a way to speak effectively. It is true that there are times when it is right to shout; but it will be done not out of hate, but to warn or help in some other way; there are times to be silent, but then he will be silent on a basis of reason, and not out of fear. Dr.Kano’s voice was quiet, but his public lecture was firm and clear; we did not miss a word. I remember that he said that judo men should be careful not to misuse their skill, and he added: ‘The best security is to be surrounded by friends, and they are not made by swords’.

    ©️ Trevor Leggett


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    Re: Kanos examples of Seiryoku Zenyo or Jita Kyoei for everyday life

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