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    Question regarding Judo and cross training.

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    Tsunami

    Posts : 1
    Join date : 2014-09-26

    Question regarding Judo and cross training.

    Post by Tsunami on Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:05 pm

    Hello everyone I'm new here and this will be my first post in this forum.

    I have a question regarding Judo as I have heard that it is a derivative of Jujitsu (as is Brazilian Jujitsu, Aikido and Aikijitsu). Also I have heard that Judo has been "watered down" compared to what it was years ago. I'm a complete newbie regarding this art so please bear with me. My question is just how much of this is true (and please correct my errors)? Also if this does happen to be true are there any excellent schools that teach Jujitsu (which covers all of the aforementioned arts as well without watering anything down)?

    My second question is how many days per week should I devote to training in Judo as I will be doing boxing as my primary art for five days a week (about 2 hours each day)?
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    BillC

    Posts : 806
    Join date : 2012-12-28
    Location : Vista, California

    Re: Question regarding Judo and cross training.

    Post by BillC on Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:16 pm

    Tsunami wrote:Hello everyone I'm new here and this will be my first post in this forum.

    I have a question regarding Judo as I have heard that it is a derivative of Jujitsu (as is Brazilian Jujitsu, Aikido and Aikijitsu). Also I have heard that Judo has been "watered down" compared to what it was years ago. I'm a complete newbie regarding this art so please bear with me. My question is just how much of this is true (and please correct my errors)? Also if this does happen to be true are there any excellent schools that teach Jujitsu (which covers all of the aforementioned arts as well without watering anything down)?

    My second question is how many days per week should I devote to training in Judo as I will be doing boxing as my primary art for five days a week (about 2 hours each day)?

    OK Tsunami, I'll bite.

    -  Would it surprise you if I told you that some of things you refer to ... aikido and BJJ ... are derivative of the judo of Jigoro Kano and not the other way around?

    -  By using the term "watering down" you kind of show that you current perception of the martial arts may be more to do with modern myth than historical reality.  It indicates maybe you have been told that there is some kind of pure and perfect jujutsu.  I assure you, that is a myth.

    -  Judo taken as a whole is the modern martial art that has been historically the most aquisitive.  Unfortunately, there are very few that can inform, much less teach the width and depth of judo.  What is most commonly seen as judo is a hybrid form of jacket wrestling ... which is a children's game instructive in learning judo ... and a very enjoyable game at that ... but there is much more.

    From your interest in boxing, I might guess that you are an MMA fan ... and that this is driving your interest in judo?  If so, you are not alone by a long shot.

    That said, if you work back in time in judo, back to its roots, the "un-watered" judo you refer to ... you don't come to anything that looks like MMA.  You reach unarmed people fighting to save their lives against armed and unarmed enemies ... sometimes in armor, sometimes not.  It also reflects the history of people who went from a medieval systems and technological capability to become a superpower of their age in the short span of 50 years.  At its core, judo is not a way to fight, it is much deeper.

    This forum can be very informative.  It contains ... for free ... among the best informed people in judo about your first question.  It also contains the posts of bloviating jerks whose every word you should take with a grain of salt.  You have to inform yourself in order to judge who to trust.  For example, look at the density of this thread ... how much education one would need to be fully involved in the conversation ... http://judo.forumsmotion.com/t2153p60-kanos-examples-of-seiryoku-zenyo-or-jita-kyoei-for-everyday-life

    Start here ... start with the story of the founder of judo ... can't put anything so complicated as the story of a great human being into one page but it's a start you can build from ... that is my suggestion.  Read this ... ... then hunt around the rest of the site.  That should be a good start.  http://judoinfo.com/jhist5.htm

    As to question #2 ... why do you want to waste your health on an activity like boxing whose whole purpose is to damage your brain and make you a dribbling old man before your time.  What's the purpose in that?  Quit boxing ... judo as many days a week as you can go ... plus off line reading and study.


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    Jihef

    Posts : 176
    Join date : 2013-09-06
    Location : Brussels, Belgium

    Re: Question regarding Judo and cross training.

    Post by Jihef on Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:30 pm

    BillC wrote:OK Tsunami, I'll bite.

    -  Would it surprise you if I told you that some of things you refer to ... aikido and BJJ ... are derivative of the judo of Jigoro Kano and not the other way around?

    -  By using the term "watering down" you kind of show that you current perception of the martial arts may be more to do with modern myth than historical reality.  It indicates maybe you have been told that there is some kind of pure and perfect jujutsu.  I assure you, that is a myth.

    -  Judo taken as a whole is the modern martial art that has been historically the most aquisitive.  Unfortunately, there are very few that can inform, much less teach the width and depth of judo.  What is most commonly seen as judo is a hybrid form of jacket wrestling ... which is a children's game instructive in learning judo ... and a very enjoyable game at that ... but there is much more.
    Very nicely put, Bill.


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    JudoStu

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    Join date : 2013-01-04
    Age : 45
    Location : UK

    Re: Question regarding Judo and cross training.

    Post by JudoStu on Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:05 am

    Tsunami wrote:Hello everyone I'm new here and this will be my first post in this forum.

    I have a question regarding Judo as I have heard that it is a derivative of Jujitsu (as is Brazilian Jujitsu, Aikido and Aikijitsu). Also I have heard that Judo has been "watered down" compared to what it was years ago. I'm a complete newbie regarding this art so please bear with me. My question is just how much of this is true (and please correct my errors)? Also if this does happen to be true are there any excellent schools that teach Jujitsu (which covers all of the aforementioned arts as well without watering anything down)?

    My second question is how many days per week should I devote to training in Judo as I will be doing boxing as my primary art for five days a week (about 2 hours each day)?

    When you say Judo has been "watered down" are you referring to the recent rule changes in competition Judo with regards to banning leg grabs? If you are then what I would say is that these techniques have only been banned from Shiai and not from Judo per se. Techniques like Morote-gari (double leg takedown) and Kata-guruma (firemans carry) can still be taught in Judo dojos around the world however a number of competition focused clubs will probably not teach them much if at all as they would see that as a waste of time teaching their students throws they cannot use in competition.

    From what little I've read on traditional Jujitsu its unlikely that anywhere still teaches it the way it was originally taught. this is because many of the fights often resulted in serious injury or death. When Kano devised Judo he took out the dangerous stuff so that everything could be trained in an alive manner against a fully resisting opponent without the risk of death or serious injury.

    As you do boxing, if your goal is to add a grappling art then Judo is something that would be very worth while doing but then so would wrestling and or BJJ.
    take care


    TheWizardofOdds

    Posts : 49
    Join date : 2013-06-13

    Re: Question regarding Judo and cross training.

    Post by TheWizardofOdds on Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:51 pm

    I only go to Judo once a week as that's all that's available in my area, plus having a young family and working shifts too. I used to wish I could go more often but at forty I'm happy with that now and supplement it with training bodyweight workouts and practise shadow judo throws also. I don't know how old you are but five days boxing and judo will certainly take its toll at some point. I don't agree with the comment regarding boxing. I'm a big fan and it's a great way to learn/instill discipline, respect and defend yourself. Sounds familiar? I'd stick with going to judo once a week with that amount of boxing.
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    Reinberger

    Posts : 151
    Join date : 2013-12-02

    Re: Question regarding Judo and cross training.

    Post by Reinberger on Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:30 am

    BillC wrote:"... aikido and ... are derivative of the judo of Jigoro Kano ..."
    Ueshiba's Aikidō a derivative of Kanō's Jūdō? How that?


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    JudoSensei

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    Location : California

    Re: Question regarding Judo and cross training.

    Post by JudoSensei on Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:56 am

    It seems to me that boxing is a watered down form of fighting since it focuses on one narrow aspect (punching), and yet you focus most of your time learning and practicing this one thing. Obviously there is great value in concentrating on getting good at one aspect of fighting.

    But now you are asking about the minimal time needed to add judo, all forms of jujutsu, aikido, and BJJ, all of which are far more broad than boxing and would take a lifetime of study to grasp. Practicing judo once a week would lead to somewhat slow progress but as a beginner you could still advance. It takes considerable practice just to maintain and fine tune basic skills and after learning the basics your advancement would come to a stop without additional time invested. Then, as you age, your skills would eventually start to erode, perhaps without ever advancing to the stage where you experience the joy of an effortless ippon, the judo version of a KO.

    We all have limited time, so invest what you can in learning a variety of other martial arts, but it is perfectly fine to pick one and stick with it, especially one as complex and inclusive as judo. By the way, the best way to find out what judo is like is to study it. Whether it is watered down or not, like boxing, there are more than enough skills to learn even if you practiced full time for years. I just came back from a training with Travis Stevens, Olympic judo competitor, who said he trains something like 10-12 hours per day 5 or 6 days a week. That's what it takes to get good at judo.

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