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    Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

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    Raj Venugopal

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    Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by Raj Venugopal on Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:54 am

    One of the guys at the club found this a while back. Watch the first 3 minutes to really learn how to do this awesome move. The BEST part is at 1.27. I'm not telling you what happens there, but you'll know it when you see it! Enjoy! Very Happy

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hoy9Eezydvo

    Raj Venugopal

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by Raj Venugopal on Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:56 am

    PS- the rest is hilarious too.
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    Davaro

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by Davaro on Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:39 pm

    Who would have thought... I have been doing this wrong all the time! Thanks Raj!

    Tomorrow I am going to tell all my students exactly how to generate power for this.


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    afulldeck

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by afulldeck on Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:53 am

    Davaro et al, its all about fundamentals. That backwards lean requires the uke to hold you up, hence enabling tori efficiently add uke's power loss to tori's power gain.  If tori leans forward, then this is bad because tori will have to hold uke up adding power to uke and eliminating the maximum power generation possibilities. Its all scientific, judo is of course all about principles .... Laughing


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    Stacey

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by Stacey on Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:57 am

    love the comments - judo guys need to quit complaining because the set up is "no-gi".

    Love this vid - it's a true testament to why MMA dudes should not be teaching judo without a substantive judo background. A weekend clinic or a You Tube education isn't it.

    But, what frightens me is that somebody who can't see how bad this is may bring that to the dojo, not knowing better. This is a prime example of why we need to emphasize to new students that they should not be learning from You Tube, or getting clarification on a technique from You Tube.
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    BillC

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by BillC on Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:07 am

    The sad thing is ... this is what judo is being reduced to ... "a Japanese martial art that consists of takedowns and throws." And it is being represented and taught incorrectly as here. Just last evening I struggled ... again ... to show a student fresh from a bankrupt BJJ club that ipponseoinage was not some kind of falling down arm drag, not some kind of weak hip throw ... I told him "almost everyone that walks in the door has been shown and practiced this technique WRONG." And I am usually deferential and avoid the "W" word.

    So we fawn and flatter and try to suck up to Olympic jacket wrestlers who are bound and determined to reduce the number of brain cells in their skull and have their home address on a medical alert bracelet by age 50 in exchange for the very unlikely possibility ... the fantasy, the dream ... of making serious money for a short amount of time ... and we feed these dreams to children. And we have already forgotten most of judo. What kind of f****d up situation?

    And Glorfindel asks "what's wrong with that?"


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    Stacey

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by Stacey on Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:19 am

    pft, I have a medical alert bracelet, and I'm not 50, and have never been to the Olympics, even as a spectator.
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    BillC

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by BillC on Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:42 am

    Stacey wrote:pft, I have a medical alert bracelet, and I'm not 50, and have never been to the Olympics, even as a spectator.

    I could drop one off next time through Connect-i-cut if you are feeling deprived.

    Just because it's an important consideration I seem to have made too obliquely ... moving from judo into a sport where one needs to become adept at giving and receiving a large number of shots to the head ... well, such a gift would make a nifty birthday present. It's the wrong thread I realize, but getting organized judo behind MMA and promoting it ... lunacy. Ridiculing MMA, as we have done here, is useless.


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    afulldeck

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by afulldeck on Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:00 pm

    BillC wrote:The sad thing is ... this is what judo is being reduced to ... "a Japanese martial art that consists of takedowns and throws."  And it is being represented and taught incorrectly as here.  Just last evening I struggled ... again ... to show a student fresh from a bankrupt BJJ club that ipponseoinage was not some kind of falling down arm drag, not some kind of weak hip throw

    ^^^ This is why my crowns don't last long.


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    Stacey

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by Stacey on Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:22 pm

    BillC - at least the fly by night bjj studios are going out of business and students are finding their way to your dojo. At least they have some concept of stuff, instead of somebody learning everything online and then coming to your dojo thinking that s/he can take on everybody.

    I like MMA. I like the fact that highly competitive athletes can actually make a living doing it with fewer fights every year, a lot fewer fights. The lower ranks of MMA contests really bother me, but look at how the US treats its judo athletes and ....

    If an MMA athlete comes to a judo dojo and plays judo, learns judo, respects judo - what's wrong with that? Would you refuse to teach a football player because of the high percentage chance that, if he spent any time in the NFL, he's suffered from that same brain damage and other physical ailments? Or how about a boxer?

    If a person comes to the dojo with the sole intention of being able to pound somebody in the MMA ring, it's different, but then we run into similar problems with people who have domestic violence backgrounds, or any other self-offense purpose in mind.
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    afulldeck

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by afulldeck on Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:43 pm

    Stacey wrote:BillC - at least the fly by night bjj studios are going out of business and students are finding their way to your dojo. At least they have some concept of stuff, instead of somebody learning everything online and then coming to your dojo thinking that s/he can take on everybody.

    But are they staying? My experience says otherwise.....


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    Davaro

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by Davaro on Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:36 pm

    All shits and giggles aside, I too have a few MMA guys that train from time-to-time. I don't chase them away at all. Instead I teach them Judo and all that goes with it.

    Hey, a lot of *insert style here* martial arts guys that don't know much about Judo or other "styles" always think theirs is the best and nothing wrong with that is there?

    I think MMA is just another sport (albeit a rough one) and one can either choose to like it or not. Me, I like it but will never suggest to someone that they start doing it. This would be a personal choice.

    I do my Judo, and try to teach it to the best of my abilities. I also like watching MMA and have a few buddies that do it. When I show a technique to them and they are "but that wont work without a gi" (like a gi choke f.e) then I tell them it works in Judo and that's what I teach. Simple as that.

    The great part is getting these "MMA types" to buy a gi, learn Judo, enter Judo competitions and do well in it. They learn the principles of our way and this, for me, epitomizes why I do this in the first place.


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    BillC

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by BillC on Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:51 pm

    Stacey wrote:BillC - at least the fly by night bjj studios are going out of business and students are finding their way to your dojo. At least they have some concept of stuff, instead of somebody learning everything online and then coming to your dojo thinking that s/he can take on everybody.

    I like MMA. I like the fact that highly competitive athletes can actually make a living doing it with fewer fights every year, a lot fewer fights. The lower ranks of MMA contests really bother me, but look at how the US treats its judo athletes and ....

    If an MMA athlete comes to a judo dojo and plays judo, learns judo, respects judo - what's wrong with that? Would you refuse to teach a football player because of the high percentage chance that, if he spent any time in the NFL, he's suffered from that same brain damage and other physical ailments? Or how about a boxer?

    If a person comes to the dojo with the sole intention of being able to pound somebody in the MMA ring, it's different, but then we run into similar problems with people who have domestic violence backgrounds, or any other self-offense purpose in mind.

    It's late young lady, but since you took the time to write to me on this forum when you could have been raking in writing in support of those big time attorney bucks ... bless Allen Wrench's heart ... anyway I will respond in kind.

    - Is learning wrong in the first place better or worse than knowing nothing? Well, in terms of technique we all ... all of us ... struggle to unlearn bad habits and new students come in carrying that cross. Then again, they do come in with interest and a certain kind of motivation.

    - I find MMA to be boring. I spend all the time wondering why ... if this is a "real fight" ... someone doesn't just haul off and kick the other guy in the nuts, stomp the knee, gouge the eyes, break fingers, fight with no clock to utter exhaustion, etc. But I also find it to be culturally dangerous ... not something to be taught to children or something that parents should encourage kids to admire ... the certainly of TBI being only one factor. MMA glorifies behavior that leaks out into communities and encourages illegal and morally questionable behavior. Worldstar. Sorry, that's just the way I feel.

    - Turn people away? Not at all. I keep my opinion about MMA largely to myself in the dojo. I will try to help anyone who sincerely wants to learn the judo I can offer ... as judo ... pure play judo ... or if they are insincere I will use their training time to see if it is possible to change their attitude.


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    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
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    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

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    Jihef

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by Jihef on Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:25 pm

    BillC wrote:-  I find MMA to be boring.  I spend all the time wondering why ... if this is a "real fight" ... someone doesn't just haul off and kick the other guy in the nuts, stomp the knee, gouge the eyes, break fingers, fight with no clock to utter exhaustion, etc.  But I also find it to be culturally dangerous ... not something to be taught to children or something that parents should encourage kids to admire ... the certainly of TBI being only one factor.  MMA glorifies behavior that leaks out into communities and encourages illegal and morally questionable behavior.  Worldstar.  Sorry, that's just the way I feel.
    You know the Judo Forums are getting old, when BillC's post are the main words of wisdom around !
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    finarashi

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by finarashi on Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:49 am

    Jihef wrote:
    BillC wrote:-  I find MMA to be boring.  I spend all the time wondering why ... if this is a "real fight" ... someone doesn't just haul off and kick the other guy in the nuts, stomp the knee, gouge the eyes, break fingers, fight with no clock to utter exhaustion, etc.  But I also find it to be culturally dangerous ... not something to be taught to children or something that parents should encourage kids to admire ... the certainly of TBI being only one factor.  MMA glorifies behavior that leaks out into communities and encourages illegal and morally questionable behavior.  Worldstar.  Sorry, that's just the way I feel.
    You know the Judo Forums are getting old, when BillC's post are the main words of wisdom around !
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    ...and his wisdom is not distilled with years and years of learning (judging from his photo)


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    BillC

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by BillC on Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:32 am

    finarashi wrote:
    Jihef wrote:
    BillC wrote:-  I find MMA to be boring.  I spend all the time wondering why ... if this is a "real fight" ... someone doesn't just haul off and kick the other guy in the nuts, stomp the knee, gouge the eyes, break fingers, fight with no clock to utter exhaustion, etc.  But I also find it to be culturally dangerous ... not something to be taught to children or something that parents should encourage kids to admire ... the certainly of TBI being only one factor.  MMA glorifies behavior that leaks out into communities and encourages illegal and morally questionable behavior.  Worldstar.  Sorry, that's just the way I feel.
    You know the Judo Forums are getting old, when BillC's post are the main words of wisdom around !
    thumbs

    ...and his wisdom is not distilled with years and years of learning (judging from his photo)


    Waaaah!
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    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
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    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:11 am

    What you guys have run across here is one of the many, many people who are trying to cash in on the MMA phenomena via the marketing strategy of the Internet/personal instruction/DVDS or various combinations. Competition is getting fierce, with dozens of different u-toob channels touting the expertise of the owner at MMA, Muy Thai, etc., etc.

    It also carries over into the realm of "self defense" training as well. People who are marginally qualified to teach any sort of physical activity set up camp on the Internet and try to make money.

    Judo isn't the only "art" being raped (hell, the IJF does a job of that !) for profit.

    Judo in fact has a good reputation in the world of martial arts, because we actually train and compete in an "alive" manner, and have "full contact" competitions (and training). Hence various unqualified people hawking their "judo" wares to apply to MMA et al.

    Oh, and Bill, the whole "stomp knee/gouge eye/testicle kick" thing gets a lot less respect in terms of "real fighting" than just plain old vanilla Judo.

    And for you guys who are concerned for the TBI issues of MMA...I've had several concussions from judo...from bell ringers to out cold and go to the hospital types, on top of the ones from leading a very active and physical life, as I'm sure many people who post here have had as well. In fact, one key reason I won't train any striking arts at my age (although I'd like to) is because I just don't need any more concussions.

    What was I writing about ? oh, yeah...

    Bill, regarding MMA as bad example to kids, encourages illegal and immoral behavior...

    Come on, Bill, it's a tiny, tiny drop in the bucket compared to all the other horrible influences in the world. People have been doing bad things for a long time...

    I don't particularly care for MMA myself, although I do watch it, especially when Ronda is fighting. Part of me winces, part of me enjoys watching as much as I do a good judo match.





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    BillC

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by BillC on Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:40 pm

    Ben Reinhardt wrote: ...

    And for you guys who are concerned for the TBI issues of MMA...

    Bill, regarding MMA as bad example to kids, encourages illegal and immoral behavior...

    Come on, Bill, it's a tiny, tiny drop in the bucket compared to all the other horrible influences in the world. People have been doing bad things for a long time...


    It's possible to pour out an emotional response in a forum post, to overstate and under-explain at the same time.  Unless one wants to write one of "those" posts.  Anyway, I headwashed on MMA and I felt better afterwards.  But always being the one who tries to tackle even from the floor, please allow me to respond to the points you responded to.

    TBI ... certainly something that is possible from an infinite number of possibilities in life, even just from falling out of bed.  But in life, and in judo, brain injury is not the POINT, it's not the objective.  And again I ask the rhetorical question ... what kind of parent would encourage their kids to participate in an activity where giving, and therefore receiving, regular concussions is praised and encouraged?

    Answer?  Well, let's just say I don't agree with those parents.  I read somewhere a quote about the formulation of judo that said something to the effect of "Kano, being an intelligent man, left some of the violence in judo ..."  It's kind of the point of the "children's game" that over time, and after much alteration became what we call sport judo.  But if it leaves our joints swollen and our skin torn up ... our ego made humble ... it's supposed to leave our noggin intact (not counting the beers consumed in recovery) and if not ... as is occurring in Japanese judo at the moment ... corrections should be made.

    Is MMA the only corrupting influence in the world?  Far from it.  Is judo a perfect response to a troubled world?  Also, sadly, no.  But we each have to make judgments about what is "good" and what is "not so good" every day.  And sometimes it's appropriate to share those personal judgments when one sees a problem.

    In the macro sense I see in the video a culture I do not encourage.  In the micro ... I see an under-informed person teaching something that could get someone hurt very badly ... or killed.


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    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling

    Richard Riehle

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by Richard Riehle on Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:50 am

    BillC wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote: ...

    And for you guys who are concerned for the TBI issues of MMA...

    Bill, regarding MMA as bad example to kids, encourages illegal and immoral behavior...

    Come on, Bill, it's a tiny, tiny drop in the bucket compared to all the other horrible influences in the world. People have been doing bad things for a long time...


    It's possible to pour out an emotional response in a forum post, to overstate and under-explain at the same time.  Unless one wants to write one of "those" posts.  Anyway, I headwashed on MMA and I felt better afterwards.  But always being the one who tries to tackle even from the floor, please allow me to respond to the points you responded to.
    ...

    In the macro sense I see in the video a culture I do not encourage.  In the micro ... I see an under-informed person teaching something that could get someone hurt very badly ... or killed.


    Bad instruction, such as that in the video under discussion, is still bad instruction. I have occasionally entered the name of a Judo technique in the YouTube search panel, and have seen some really bad Judo instruction, even by people who are successful medal winners.

    When we are in our competition years, some of us rely on a small number of techniques that work for us, and often do not understand the many others we rarely use. For example, for a long time, I did not have as deep an understanding of uki-goshi as I do now. I did not use that technique in competition, only for nage-no-kata. Some years ago (probably ten or twelve) I decided to study the technique in greater depth. While I still have much to learn, and much to improve, I now have a greater appreciation of uki-goshi, and I realize that even many of the high-dan people I know still do not understand it very well. It is rarely used in competition so we think we don't really need to learn it as competitors. Consequently, there is a lot of bad instruction of uki-goshi in the dojo, and some absolutely horrible examples on YouTube, and sadly, some of those horrible examples are by people who should know better.

    Why, then, should we expect an MMA specialist with little to no actual Judo training to do well in teaching such a basic technique as O-soto-gari?

    sims10000

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by sims10000 on Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:17 am

    Hehehe Very Happy I am amused!


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    Y-Chromosome

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    Re: Best "oh-saw-toe-gari" ever!

    Post by Y-Chromosome on Sat May 21, 2016 8:27 am

    OK, I just watched this for reasons which escape me.
    Technical aspects aside, I have to marvel at the pedagogical GENIUS of having a driving electric guitar instrumental running through an entire lesson.
    I need to explain this to my wife the High School Teacher, so she can IMMEDIATELY implement this innovation. I mean attention, comprehension, retention... just EVERY aspect of learning is improved when there is a constant blast of electric guitar hitting the brain along with the lesson material.
    Thanks to that guitar, I will never forget to LEAN WAY BACK when I attack with O SAWTo gary.

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