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    Most practical techniques without the Gi for MMA etc

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    Most practical techniques without the Gi for MMA etc

    Post by Guest on Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:43 pm

    Now I reckon Ashi waza , Ko-uchi, O-uchi, possibly de ashi barai, ko soto etc are good because you can get away with less than perfect grips if you time them right - however I think that any technique where you turn your back to the opponent is risky for obvious reasons unless of course they are already behind you. I also think the lack of a pulling lifting sleeve hand, (check your watch type motion) makes them a lot trickier - sure you can try and grab a wrist but with all the sweat and ... euukk . So what techniques have worked best for you in no - gi randori ?
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    genetic judoka

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    Re: Most practical techniques without the Gi for MMA etc

    Post by genetic judoka on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:54 am

    my most successful technique in no gi randori is okuri ashi harai. behind that is ashi guruma (at least my version of it). after that is sumi gaeshi. soto makikomi and harai makikomi are easy to do but hard on my training partner so I avoid them.

    when I do no gi work it's most often with my dojo buddy who also competes in MMA, so we do it with MMA gloves on. those make it quite easy to get a good grip on the wrist and perform a solid pull.

    we also do a form of no gi randori where we're also throwing punches (not trying to hit each other but to better emulate the risks of closing the distance irresponsibly) at which point the throw I use most often isn't a classical judo throw in the sense of kodokan pedagogy, but if I had to describe it I'd call it a mix between osoto gari and a hip throw (basically a backwards harai goshi).

    and turning your back to your opponent is far less risky when you're good at transitioning to rear throws off failed forward throws. but still I feel ashi guruma is a must-learn for those who wish to do no gi throws that don't require you to grab the leg. it's a nice big powerful flashy forward throw that sends uke sailing through the air, but puts you in a position where uke can't take your back because of the relative positioning involved in the throw.


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    Stacey

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    Re: Most practical techniques without the Gi for MMA etc

    Post by Stacey on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:34 am

    there's a huge differences between "no gi" as practiced by bjj practitioners and getting into a legit "no gi" fight. Rarely, in the real world, do you find a person not wearing something on top, or wearing something so skin tight that the grips are hard to get. In winter, they even wear thick coats which afford a really nice grip. Yes, normal clothes won't hold up to a lot, but for getting a grip and throwing a person, your typical Oxford shirt is really pretty solid, and because the fabric is so thin, you can get some wonderful gi- like chokes in on people. Hoodies are great for most throws as well.
    Anyway, just wanted to posit that "no gi" and street clothes are very different.

    If you can, grabbing both palms around the back of the neck allows for a nice turn in that mimics any double lapel throw, and even a rather nice koshi garuma.

    Beyond wrist control, there's upper arm control. I've got tiny little hands so that grip does suit me well unless I can squeeze above the elbow, using the end of the humerus as the anchor for my grip.

    Up the back, squeezing the person into your hip also works pretty well for forward throws when your uke is in one of those "rash guard" thingies. Otherwise, give me an oxford, a hoodie, even a t-shirt. I can always get at least one throw off with a t-shirt before it's toast.
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    Dutch Budo

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    Re: Most practical techniques without the Gi for MMA etc

    Post by Dutch Budo on Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:27 am

    I like to work with the kimura grip from standing a lot. I kind of invite them to go for a single leg and I grab the kimura, and make the sumi gaeshi with it. Really effective, but rather difficult to master. Other than that I work of arm drags a lot.


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    Ricebale

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    Re: Most practical techniques without the Gi for MMA etc

    Post by Ricebale on Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:41 am

    Stacey wrote:there's a huge differences between "no gi" as practiced by bjj practitioners and getting into a legit "no gi" fight. Rarely, in the real world, do you find a person not wearing something on top, or wearing something so skin tight that the grips are hard to get. In winter, they even wear thick coats which afford a really nice grip. Yes, normal clothes won't hold up to a lot, but for getting a grip and throwing a person, your typical Oxford shirt is really pretty solid, and because the fabric is so thin, you can get some wonderful gi- like chokes in on people. Hoodies are great for most throws as well.
    Anyway, just wanted to posit that "no gi" and street clothes are very different.

    If you can, grabbing both palms around the back of the neck allows for a nice turn in that mimics any double lapel throw, and even a rather nice koshi garuma.

    Beyond wrist control, there's upper arm control. I've got tiny little hands so that grip does suit me well unless I can squeeze above the elbow, using the end of the humerus as the anchor for my grip.

    Up the back, squeezing the person into your hip also works pretty well for forward throws when your uke is in one of those "rash guard" thingies. Otherwise, give me an oxford, a hoodie, even a t-shirt. I can always get at least one throw off with a t-shirt before it's toast.

    That's a very good point, in this scenario throws which utilise the belt rather than the shirt are likely safer. The pants tend to be made of particular materials and cuts so as to not tear as easy.

    The pickup o-goshi I've posted a vid of comes to mind using either the waist grip or the pants.

    For a true no-gi anything off a body lock (or bear hug as the IJF calls it. Most types of generic throws work off either over under closed grip which is my favourite.

    In no Gi competition the grip is the most important thing as there is less room for error due to sluppage and opponent backing out of a poor grip. The double leg blast is the go to move if else is failing, including if the opponent starts getting control, I don't use this as a primary attack too much, more in combination though.

    My primary moves are:

    Attacking foot/thigh trip off the over under (Kosoto gake or tani otoshi)
    Lateral drop off the over under (uke waza)
    Ricebale throw and sumi gaeshi as a counter to a leg attack
    Koshi garuma (the sag version)
    Pick up and suplex (ura nage) or dump as a counter to turning throws

    Cheers
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    Q mystic

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    Re: Most practical techniques without the Gi for MMA etc

    Post by Q mystic on Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:27 am

    When I was competing in judo and wrestling I think it was typically easier to throw a wrestler in nogi than a judoka in gi...if you got the tie up in wrestling(and non elite of course). Funny thing is that in judo, I think I got lazy and too often just spotted the less athletic or off timed guy and would simply get in somewhat and power out a throw where when I went to wrestling I couldnt and had to seemingly rely more on judo dynamics. In wrestling, (not same as mma nogi of course,) my fave throw was ippon seoinage but close behind was morote seoinage.

    ot sry, but I think it would be good if this judo forum had a sticky on how to stop a shot.


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