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    IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

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    Fritz

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    IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by Fritz on Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:10 am

    See:

    http://www.bjjee.com/bjj-news/international-judo-federation-prohibits-judo-athletes-to-compete-in-bjj-other-grappling-competitions/

    Did anybody knows, why the IJF thinks, that they can prohibit athletes the participation at sporting events in their spare time, only because
    these athletes were good enough in IJF related competitions...?

    Sounds like modern slavery ...


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    sylver

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by sylver on Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:42 am

    Fritz wrote:See:

    http://www.bjjee.com/bjj-news/international-judo-federation-prohibits-judo-athletes-to-compete-in-bjj-other-grappling-competitions/

    Did anybody knows, why the IJF thinks, that they can prohibit athletes the participation at sporting events in their spare time, only because
    these athletes were good enough in IJF related competitions...?

    Sounds like modern slavery ...

    Just saw this as well and I can barely believe it. It's an outrage!

    It would be very questionable if said athletes were paid employees, but as it stands, this is an absolute disgrace.
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    BillC

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by BillC on Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:14 am

    Modern day slavery? What do you think the modern day professional athlete is? To whom and for what reasons do they sell their soul?

    This is, after all, a sports entertainment business. The IJF are well within their rights to control their revenue and insist that participating players not benefit competing businesses in the same market space ... which BJ Judo organizations are.

    It's ridiculous for such an article to call upon the ghost of Jigoro Kano when what is really being discussed is whose pocket will be stuffed with cash ... well in the case of the US it is certainly noth the athlete but that hardly matters. Incredibly naive to think that all the organization and expense required to organize, promote and present a worldwide spectacle is for the enjoyment and glory of the athlete.

    Repeating ... these are SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESSES.


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    gester

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by gester on Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:30 am

    The International Judo Federation (IJF) has taken the extraordinary step of formally stating a ban exists on crossover grappling and combat sports competition for ranked Judoka in international competition, unless permission is granted.

    In an email circulated to IJF affiliates globally the wording is explicit

    "Any Judoka classified in the <<IJF rankings list>> is not authorized to take part in any international competition of any combat sport, other than Judo, unless specific(ly) authorized by IJF."

    http://fightsportasia.com/2014/11/17/judo-or-judont-officials-move-to-prohibit-combat-sports-crossover/


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    sylver

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by sylver on Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:52 pm

    BillC wrote:Modern day slavery?  What do you think the modern day professional athlete is?  To whom and for what reasons do they sell their soul?

    This is, after all, a sports entertainment business.  The IJF are well within their rights to control their revenue and insist that participating players not benefit competing businesses in the same market space ... which BJ Judo organizations are.

    It's ridiculous for such an article to call upon the ghost of Jigoro Kano when what is really being discussed is whose pocket will be stuffed with cash ... well in the case of the US it is certainly noth the athlete but that hardly matters.  Incredibly naive to think that all the organization and expense required to organize, promote and present a worldwide spectacle is for the enjoyment and glory of the athlete.

    Repeating ... these are SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESSES.

    Oh, and the athletes are paid to compete, right?

    Get real, most athletes in the ranking list end up paying to participate in IJF competitions and it's absolute insolence to believe that they owe anything to the IJF. It's the other way around!
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    Fritz

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by Fritz on Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:17 pm

    http://dojodrifter.com/2014/11/rousey-reacts-to-new-ijf-rules/


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    Neil G

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by Neil G on Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:20 am

    Does the IJF compensate athletes for competing in their events? Serious question, I assumed not but maybe they do.
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    BillC

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by BillC on Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:14 am

    sylver wrote:

    Oh, and the athletes are paid to compete, right?

    Get real, most athletes in the ranking list end up paying to participate in IJF competitions and it's absolute insolence to believe that they owe anything to the IJF. It's the other way around!

    Neil G wrote:Does the IJF compensate athletes for competing in their events? Serious question, I assumed not but maybe they do.

    How are you doing Sylver?  Long time, no see.  I hope that you are well.

    Guys, don't make me defend the IJF, the Olympics or professional sports in general.  I can't defend all the deficiencies up to and including the exploitation of the athletes who give so much to participate and most often receive so little in return.

    The IJF is ... for lack of a better description ... a sports league just like any other.  The IOC, its member organizations and the myriad of feeder programs that provide the athletes are sports leagues and programs as well.  Together, they are part of the Sports Machine.  There is not a transcendent church, established by God ... or even Greek gods ... with commandments written or inspired by deities that supersede any human decision.  It's not even "that which was created by Kano Jigoro" for a long time now.  Not cynical at all to come back down to Earth and see things as they are.

    When you view, read about or attend an IJF event, you are a consumer of a product.  A product of the sports entertainment business.  Sports entertainment businesses have a duty to maximize value to their shareholders by providing an exciting viewing experience that will attract more and more eyes on the sport and on IJF events in particular.  Just like any business, and the management of that business is held to account for performing that work and that work alone.

    Now, when we talk Olympic sports, the shareholders are varied.  They might be governments in many cases, they certainly include advertisers, sponsors who may not wish to be publicly known and in general a complicated patronage system.  The profits may not always be public.  They may not be tangible either.  What price does one put on the gold medal count in some countries for example?  What are the odds for any number of Olympic sports results in Vegas right now?

    The athletes certainly sacrifice much ... their entire lives maybe ... to take a chance to appear on the medal stand ... and the majority will not.  Sure, some are pressed into service by governments ... or by "caring" parents ... both of whom too often give children little choice.  But many enter this meat grinder willingly.  They are in service of a sports entertainment business in exchange for being allowed to participate.

    That business provides among other things the marketing, the promotion, the venue, the medals, the cash prizes, the sponsors, the advertising, the snazzy announcers ... the list go on.  These are IJF events and because THEY hold them, THEY decide who participates.  And it only makes GOOD SENSE that they control the product and prevent their investment, their system, from profiting some other profit-making organization.  This is virtually the same for any other well-managed professional sport ... there are rules about what athletes can and cannot do with the product ... the product is the athlete.

    We don't recoil from this system ... we run to it!  We post results from the latest event in e-judo, we keep track of who has the most points, we watch the video on YouTube ... all that.  We can hardly wait until 2016 when we can all bitch that the IJF didn't provide enough coverage again, or that they made us pay for it, or in some way did not provide the instant judo gratification we want.

    We tell our kids "sacrifice and train hard, focus on winners and winning, and you may get to go to the Olympics too."

    So really guys ... of course "it's about the money" ... what do you expect?  The IJF management are doing their job.


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    gester

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by gester on Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:30 am

    FYI.
    Prize money for 2014 Abu Dhabi Grand Slam...

    18. AWARDS AND PRIZES (IN TOTAL US$ 154,000)

    The organizer shall provide for presentation: A certificate of participation for each participant.

    Medals, diploma and Prizes:
    1st place:5000,- USD (judoka: 4000,- USD and coach 1000,- USD)
    2nd place:3000,- USD (judoka: 2400,- USD and coach 600,- USD)
    3rd place:1500,- USD (judoka: 1200,- USD and coach 300,- USD)
    3rd place:1500,- USD (judoka: 1200,- USD and coach 300,- USD)

    http://www.intjudo.eu/upload/2014_08/30/140937248633524948/2014_gs_abudhabi_v27.06.2014.pdf


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    Udon

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by Udon on Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:50 am

    BillC,
    You are correct in your description of the IJF and it's purpose. Those people who enter IJF competitions are usually superb athletes and fight well. They receive medals, prize money, and recognition as being top competitors, and the IJF makes money. That's the nature of the beast.

    All of the aforementioned is very far from my concept of Judo and the purpose of practicing and studying Judo.
    I am saddened and angered by the way the IJF has presented judo to the public.
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    NBK

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by NBK on Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:35 am

    I guess that wipes out my plan to win the MMA World's.

    Thanks for ruining my day ... Rolling Eyes
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    Stacey

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by Stacey on Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:59 am

    https://webpoint.usjudo.org/wp15/Email/ViewEmail.asp?ID=07225448&cx=zvizcc&pz=vtydrx___wccv&aq=tyv


    USA Judo response
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    afulldeck

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by afulldeck on Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:57 am

    BillC wrote:
    So really guys ... of course "it's about the money" ... what do you expect?  The IJF management are doing their job.

    @BillC. I guess I just don't understand how the IJF wins "the money" out of this kind of regulation? How does denying someone to participate in another combat sport help? Why couldn't an athlete be a judoka and a wrestler? Isn't this against the Olympic ideal? Will the next step be a demand that all judoka stop participating in any kind of sport? Seems to me, that the IJF has run into a very slippery slope without any real rational....


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    Ryvai

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by Ryvai on Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:07 am

    I quote user Kung_Fu_Cowboy of Reddit;

    "In world news, Japanese electrical engineers who are also IJF officials have successfully designed a new source of perpetual energy. According to IJF President, Mr. Marius Vizer, engineers were able to install two generators on either end of Jigaro Kano's coffin and then harness the energy of Kano spinning in his grave."

    Hilarious and probably not far from the truth.
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    BillC

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by BillC on Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:47 am

    afulldeck wrote:
    @BillC. I guess I just don't understand how the IJF wins "the money" out of this kind of regulation? How does denying someone to participate in another combat sport help? Why couldn't an athlete be a judoka and a wrestler? Isn't this against the Olympic ideal? Will the next step be a demand that all judoka stop participating in any kind of sport? Seems to me, that the IJF has run into a very slippery slope without any real rational....

    Again, I am not the IJF ... I have no definite information and why this was sent out ... or by whom ... it could be part of a a magic incantation to make elves jump out of a unicorn's rear end for all I know.

    My comment in context, in context and to provide context, is simply to remind us all ... myself included ... that Olympic judo is a business.

    OK, why take a close look at what ranked athletes are doing?  I speculate, with strong examples in other sports as a guide, that the IJF wants to keep the prestige of their product from leaking away into other revenue streams.  They may indeed want to start making deals to loan out players to other leagues ... like the Japanese majors started doing with the MLB.

    Again, there is nothing I read here that says one cannot be a judoka and a wrestler.

    As to the "Olympic ideal" ... surely you jest.  Sports ... entertainment ... business.


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    BillC

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by BillC on Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:35 am

    This just came over the transom ...

    NEWSWith regards to your worries towards the IJF decision to limit the migration of judokas to other sports and disciplines

    Excerpts ...

    "The International Judo Federation and its Member Federations have extensively invested in training and competition programs, setting up of structures, equipment donation and media coverage. All these investments must be preserved, like in any other sports, having in their rules a return toward the formative structures."

    "IJF does not exclude collaboration and partnership with other combat sports disciplines, but these must be carried out within the limits of mutual advantages and without the migration of athletes from one community to the other. Some agreements were established with federations that specify the conditions of participation."

    "In this period of reforms and development of Judo, other sports and disciplines noticed our evolution and they showed to be more and more interested in attracted our athletes ready formed, due to the investments made by their clubs, their National Federations, their Continental Unions, as well as IJF, in order to benefit from their services and to generate financial benefits in the interests of certain leaders from other sports, as well as in order to promote the image of these sports through the performances of our athletes, achieved with a lot of efforts and hard work in the Judo competitions at all levels, as well as the Olympic Games. Moreover, private bodies of match organization exploit the work of our federations without any compensation."

    "At the same time, the migration of athletes to several sports would only represent a spiritual contamination of our sport ..."

    Hmmm ... I had not expected that last one.


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    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
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    NBK

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by NBK on Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:07 pm

    BillC wrote:This just came over the transom ...

    ......
    "At the same time, the migration of athletes to several sports would only represent a spiritual contamination of our sport ..."

    Hmmm ... I had not expected that last one.

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by The Joe-Man on Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:08 pm

    It looks like the IJF has removed Mr. Vizer's statement but it's still available in cached form. I've copied and pasted the entire text so it doesn't get lost.

    "Dear Judokas,

    With regards to your worries towards the IJF decision to limit the migration of judokas to other sports and disciplines, I would like to make the following clarifications: IJF, the Continental Unions, the National Federations, as well as the Judo clubs made serious efforts in these past years on all levels, in order to support and participate in the development reform of our sport.

    The International Judo Federation and its Member Federations have extensively invested in training and competition programs, setting up of structures, equipment donation and media coverage. All these investments must be preserved, like in any other sports, having in their rules a return toward the formative structures.

    This extensive development program has an impact on the complexity of the competition program, the media and marketing strategy, the promotion, the IJF solidarity programs worth several million dollars every year, the Sports Department, the Refereeing Department, the Financial Department, Judo for Children, Judo for Schools, Judo for Peace, as well as prize money for athletes and coaches, all of this as part of an idea of radical change of our sport, reflected by the inclusion of Judo, for the first time in history, in the third category of Olympic Sports among the five existing categories and meanwhile having as major aim the introduction of the Team Event in the Judo Competition at the Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games.

    All our achievements, as well as our objective to have the team event for the first time in Tokyo 2020, strengthens our conviction that we must maintain our sport in a homogenous, unitary, clean and integral community, in order to achieve all our other objectives for the following period. Judo wishes to preserve its heritage.

    It is important to remember that when wrestling was temporarily removed from the Olympic program, one of the reasons was also the fact that this sport assimilated the MMA community, Grappling and other disciplines.

    IJF does not exclude collaboration and partnership with other combat sports disciplines, but these must be carried out within the limits of mutual advantages and without the migration of athletes from one community to the other. Some agreements were established with federations that specify the conditions of participation.

    In this period of reforms and development of Judo, other sports and disciplines noticed our evolution and they showed to be more and more interested in attracted our athletes ready formed, due to the investments made by their clubs, their National Federations, their Continental Unions, as well as IJF, in order to benefit from their services and to generate financial benefits in the interests of certain leaders from other sports, as well as in order to promote the image of these sports through the performances of our athletes, achieved with a lot of efforts and hard work in the Judo competitions at all levels, as well as the Olympic Games. Moreover, private bodies of match organization exploit the work of our federations without any compensation.

    At the same time, the migration of athletes to several sports would only represent a spiritual contamination of our sport once these athletes come back to Judo, a sport whose spirit and values were acquired and transmitted through generations, from Jigoro Kano onwards. We should not forget the history of Judo and the merits of all the heroes and legends of our sport.

    Freedom is one of the supreme values of humanity and each of us is free to choose a path in life, just like I myself did, when I chose to immigrate to a free world in my youth, but we should not forget that before Freedom, Honor and Loyalty are primary values of any community or generation. The principles and values of our sport are more than enough for individual perfection, on a sports level as well as on the formational level for society.

    The values of our sport, together with the Honor and Loyalty to Judo mean a lot more than a few extra dollars for which we could sell our identity and than a bleeding on inhuman face on various podiums of other sports that never made any efforts for the education and sports preparation of the athletes involved.

    I can reassure you that the IJF decisions always serve the interests of our sport and our athletes, and that they preserve and continuously develop the values of Judo and the welfare and integrity of our community.

    I consider that for all of us, Judo is the true path in life, in sport and in society.
    We have to keep Judo strong and united!

    With friendship,

    Marius Vizer"
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    NBK

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by NBK on Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:36 pm

    Wow...
    'At the same time, the migration of athletes to several sports would only represent a spiritual contamination of our sport once these athletes come back to Judo, a sport whose spirit and values were acquired and transmitted through generations, from Jigoro Kano onwards. We should not forget the history of Judo and the merits of all the heroes and legends of our sport. '

    I wonder who wrote this....

    It's funny as anything. Take a bunch of guys jetting around the planet in style, staying in high end hotels, expense account meals and schmoozing, perhaps with wives or significant others, pomp, circumstance, cameras etc etc and clearly there's money moving, being spent, being sought, or just being evident.

    No wonder that someone comes in and wants to steal away the best players.

    Both are mugs' games, just different angles.

    NBK

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    afulldeck

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by afulldeck on Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:54 am

    Thanks Joe-Man.

    "..... we must maintain our sport in a homogenous, unitary, clean and integral community, in order to achieve all our other objectives for the following period..."

    "....represent a spiritual contamination of our sport.."

    "...we should not forget that before Freedom, Honor and Loyalty are primary values of any community.."


    Really??? No matter how many times I read Vizer's letter, the above sections reads xenophobic to me. That's the best I can say...


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    BillC

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by BillC on Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:26 am

    Whoever wrote the letter ... presuming it was not entirely Mr. Vizer himself ... committed the sin known in sales circles as "selling past the close." AKA "STFU."

    He should have quit at the point where he pretty much indicated honestly "hey, we're spending money, we want to keep the product we invested in for our benefit." That is an honest, even reasonable response.

    But to conjure the ghost of Kano shihan ... and "spiritual contamination?" Bwah ha ha ha. Laughing Poor Mr. Vizer, someone will learn a lesson about setting a post aside until well-rested and/or sober.

    At the next ref's/coach's meeting I will inquire whether "spiritual contamination" is a shido or hansokumake.


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    tafftaz

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by tafftaz on Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:30 am

    I have seen plenty of gi "contaminations" from people passing out, but never spiritual contamination. Unless you count vodka on a Saturday night out that is Very Happy

    Rightintheface

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by Rightintheface on Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:38 pm

    It seems the IJF would be willing to accept the popularity bump of a judoka doing well in MMA, such as Ronda Rousey, Hector Lombard, Karo Parisyan, etc. but are hesitant to allow other grapplers the same courtesy. They already change the rules to restrict the movesets of wrestlers and BJJ'ers in shiai, and now they want to insulate judo from a wider audience. Because that's their plan to...make judo more popular.
    So instead, let's just keep judo on at 3am every 4 years anx hope that works out for us.

    As for "entertainment brands" having the right to restrict what athletes do....no. It's a job, and a poorly paying one. How is this going to make any athlete want to be loyal to you? You're just going to lose athletes like Rousey and Travis Stevens to more accommodating rulesets.

    As my own tiny sliver of protest, I will henceforth only compete in freestyle or non-IJF sanctioned events and encourage others to do the same. I will take judo away from the bureaucrats as much as I can.
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    finarashi

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by finarashi on Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:18 pm

    But what if IJF is right?

    Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe the goal of Judo is not to smash in someones face or get as much money as possible by using your poweress in sports. I readily agree that in todays world paying for athletes to hurt other athletes is popular. So it was also in ancient Rome.


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    BillC

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    Re: IJF prohibits judo athletes to compete in BJ other grappling competitions

    Post by BillC on Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:26 am

    finarashi wrote:But what if IJF is right?

    Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe the goal of Judo is not to smash in someones face or get as much money as possible by using your poweress in sports. I readily agree that in todays world paying for athletes to hurt other athletes is popular. So it was also in ancient Rome.

    Ah Fin ... always in the corner of the IJF ... and again I basically agree with you.

    If the goal of judo is not about money-making, smashing faces, breaking arms ... or even about winning ... then why are the principles and goals of Kano-shihan buried deep on the IJF web page? Why are other principles and goals front and center? Things like loyalty and honor are certainly praiseworthy (if a little bit sketchy when juxtaposed against freedom), but when was the last time our beloved IJF announcers noted "wow, so-and-so has such efficient judo, he waits for his moment patiently and takes the shido instead of forcing it!" Or "I just saw Miss what's-her-name in the mezzanine smiling and signing autographs and discussing judo for women with a bunch of kids ... her national coach is furious ... she has to fight in the finals in an hour!"

    When was the last time you saw a popular athlete knocked off the medal stand for a display of poor character (such as belittling a defeated opponent, or throwing a tantrum when receiving silver)?

    Why is winning still the predominant and most obvious goal? I think the answer is "that's what brings in the fans" in an Olympics-oriented sports entertainment business. No shame in running a business as a business, it is the right thing to do.

    ...

    Plus, the continued problem of "differentiation" and difficulties in maintaining control of sports under the Olympic umbrella and perhaps SportAccord ... but that is a topic over my head.


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    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
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