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    Beginners in the IJF era

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    Taijutsuka

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    Beginners in the IJF era

    Post by Taijutsuka on Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:44 am

    I hope that this topic does not seem presumptuous. I am not at all hiding the fact that I'm a complete beginner in judo and that I have everything to learn.

    In this age of the IJF, will a student be exposed to the full judo of Kanō-shihan during the course of training? We were told to lift our partners a couple of weeks ago in warm ups and I was stopped, as gripping below the belt is not allowed. (My lift was essentially the start of kata guruma).

    I am not making this post just to complain, but to genuinely ask of seniors where one can pursue training of judo in all it entails, not just in terms of the Olympics. I don't presume that I will be able to master even a fraction of judo's waza, but there is a difference between that and going into the art without even the possibility of seeing it all.

    I am not even talking about kata here (as much as I would like to study it); I get blank stares from people when I mention the idea of kata to people, who seem to be imagining McDojo krotty and Olympic TKD. They are not even aware that judo has kata.

    My other training is in koryu and I am drawn to judo because it is such an excellent complement, both for conditioning and in what it represents. It is bizarre to me, though, how things are constantly being eliminated and bizarrely grafted on (like the blue keikogi, etc). I do not expect judo to be koryu but is it not supposed to have constancy of its own?

    Advice?
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    Jihef

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    Re: Beginners in the IJF era

    Post by Jihef on Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:49 am

    Taijutsuka wrote:Advice?
    Depending on where you live, maybe find another judo club. Twisted Evil


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    Taijutsuka

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    Re: Beginners in the IJF era

    Post by Taijutsuka on Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:57 am

    Actually, I think the club where I primarily train is excellent on the whole. I'm going to be moving soon, though, and I wondered if there was maybe an (obviously subjective) list of dojo that stress such things.
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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Beginners in the IJF era

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:15 am

    What you can learn from training judo isn't dependent upon whether or not you can grab someone's leg or not. The basics of judo, the kihon if you like, are a lot more important than leg grabbing.

    So, I would say you are focused on the wrong thing. Nobody has done or taught judo like Kano Shihan for a long, long time. But the essence of Judo hasn't changed.

    Which koryu art do you do, are you officially enrolled in a school ?




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    Taijutsuka

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    Re: Beginners in the IJF era

    Post by Taijutsuka on Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:32 am

    Kihon is always the most important.

    I don't for a moment mean that the leg grabs are the point. I've heard horror stories of people at higher levels not being allowed to practice things at their classes because the IJF no longer allows the technique, and conversely cases where people do and are applauded by their instructors for not limiting themselves.

    Essentially my question was more about whether there is reason for worry (considering what I read on here and on the old JudoForum!) because any older and experienced judoka I hear talk about the essence of judo being gone, and so on.

    I would rather not say, but it's a school of koryu jujutsu. (A legitimate ryu, not someone's half baked judo/karate combination passed off as "jujitsu".)
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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Beginners in the IJF era

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:55 am

    Taijutsuka wrote:Kihon is always the most important.

    I don't for a moment mean that the leg grabs are the point. I've heard horror stories of people at higher levels not being allowed to practice things at their classes because the IJF no longer allows the technique, and conversely cases where people do and are applauded by their instructors for not limiting themselves.

    Essentially my question was more about whether there is reason for worry (considering what I read on here and on the old JudoForum!) because any older and experienced judoka I hear talk about the essence of judo being gone, and so on.

    I would rather not say, but it's a school of koryu jujutsu. (A legitimate ryu, not someone's half baked judo/karate combination passed off as "jujitsu".)

    I didn't expect you to tell which ryu, especially if it's a legit koyru and not what you described pretty well as ersatz 'koryu'.

    I'd say you have to take it on a case by case basis regarding which judo school allows what exact techniques you can practice. Go and talk to the instructors at the school(s) you find when you move, and ask. They may or may not make a similar statement to the one I did about leg grabbing. If they do, I would bet they won't mind you leg grabbing.

    But if leg grabbing isn't really the point, it won't really matter anyway.

    Everyone thinks they practiced Judo in a better way in the old days, for one reason or another. I've fallen into that IMO, trap, as well at times. Of course, I got to do all those neat leg grabs for a long time, so I don't feel so cheated as all the guys who feel that leg grabbing, one sided gripping, etc, etc, were/are the essence of Judo.

    You know, in the old days, leg grabbing was frowned upon, called cheap, stuff like that ? I even got to see some of that attitude myself when I was coming up (not from my sensei,though).

    I know, it's not really about the leg grabbing.

    You'll find it quite difficult to find anything approaching the attitude you get in koryu arts in 99.99999% of judo dojo.

    But you can still learn a lot, regardless.

    Just keep it on the down-low, though, slumming with Judoka might not make you the most popular of koryu guys.


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    Taijutsuka

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    Re: Beginners in the IJF era

    Post by Taijutsuka on Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:00 am

    Thank you very much for your help!

    I'm really enjoying judo and one of my favorite things is how global it is (as someone who travels a lot). I like that I can practice pretty much anywhere I visit, even in small towns and third world countries. (Off-topic but wonderfully true.)

    As for 'slumming' it, the Soke of the ryu continues to practice judo, so I think I'm okay!
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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Beginners in the IJF era

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:19 am

    Taijutsuka wrote:Thank you very much for your help!

    I'm really enjoying judo and one of my favorite things is how global it is (as someone who travels a lot). I like that I can practice pretty much anywhere I visit, even in small towns and third world countries. (Off-topic but wonderfully true.)

    As for 'slumming' it, the Soke of the ryu continues to practice judo, so I think I'm okay!

    That's good, cross training is important!

    yeah, Judo is cosmopolitan, which is a great thing ! If you find a good dojo, it's a good dojo, leg grabbing or not.

    BTW, I use leg grabs in randori still, and my students get to yell "hansokumake!".



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