Ben Reinhardt wrote:NBK wrote:Tomiki sensei really stressed taisabaki / body movement, and as you said, moves with speed and authority that made it stick. Today Shódókan aikidó (sometimes known as Tomiki ryú aikidó) has a more complicated set, more like the 10-12 step series (I think the same, I don't know it even though I've practiced it before) in the video.
Shódókan aikidó does randori with and without tanto, correct ? Or is that Yoseikian Budo(Aikido)? Or both ?
NBK: I believe both - but definitely Shódókan aikidó. Yoseikan Budo often goes hand in hand with Nihon Jujutsu - Mochizuki Minoru sensei learned from Sato Shizuya sensei. Once they were both in the Kokusai Budoin / International Martial Arts Federation. There was a falling out (imagine that.... martial artists disagreeing as to Who's In Charge??) and Mochizuki sensei left the Japanese HQ while taking the European branch (as he'd registered and copyrighted the name.... ugly, pointless really, and now both gents, great martial artists, are long gone). Mochizuki sensei taught Nihon Jujutsu in addition to Yoseikan Budo, which had more weapons practice and some form of competition, I think IIRC. There are a small number of Mochizuki sensei-ranked Nihon Jujutsu instructors in Europe only, I think, but they have no standing with IMAF or the HQ dojo, the US Embassy Judo Club. No one has ever grasped the nettle to bring them back into the organization, but I think they'd be welcome.
NBK wrote:Prewar and during WWII, in aikibujutsu he taught a much simpler, six step taisabaki series to the Japanese military, a version of which we teach today. Left, right, forward left 90 degrees, forward right 90 degrees, back left 90 degrees, back right 90 degrees. Done correctly, i.e., in balance and with proper ma'ai / intervals, you can generate a huge amount of torque while off-balancing your opponent.
Do you practice that set with or without pre-existing grips/kumi kata applied ?
NBK: Both. There are a number of sets, namely:
starting from shizentai
- taisabaki only (stepping)
- taisabaki plus blocking with single te-gatana (hand sword, using the near hand) moving into hikiotoshi or osaeotoshi
- taisabaki plus blocking with alternate hand blocks (low and doublehand blocks)
" " kicking (low front snap kick to side of knee, then from the outside knee kick to uke's outer thigh / sciatica nerve, inside to the groin, or high kick)
- " " striking drills
then you add grasps / taisabaki / counters /
finally into hidari gamae or migi gamae / left or right fighting positions, etc.....
NBK wrote:Tomiki sensei actually thought that aikidó was too difficult to start with, and thought that only after someone had progressed to 3 dan in júdó should they start aikidó with that solid basis in júdó. That didn't match the basis under which he was hired by Waseda University, so even today they start with raw beginners. They drill the taisabaki a lot.
I have read that before regarding aikido being too difficult to start with, and I believe it. One of my sensei did get fairly involved in it for a while, and saw a LOT of applications to Judo, which he worked on quite a bit and incorporated into our training.
NBK wrote:PS - In the video I linked, just for clarity's sake, the name for the technique of pulling uke forward over his toes is 引落 hikiotoshi - pulling drop.
The action when he pushes into uke using his arm to connect to his torso / center, turning that into suppressing his elbow once off-balance, is usually called 抑落 osaeotoshi, or pushing drop.
Both drop uke onto his face. Again, this is self defense against a júdó attack.
Thanks, I was wondering which one was which or if it was both.
I understand the "self defense" versus "Judo" think, but in a sense it's false dichotomy (not as logical fallacy, though...I guess better to say they aren't really that different). I don't know if you are familiar or not, but some skillful "takedowns" to ne waza (in randori or shiai) use the same principles. They are quite rare though today. Of course, under rules, you can't purposely through someone face down in Judo, and for good reason...
NBK: I am familiar with this. The first references I have from the Kodokan for the ridatsu-ho ('releasing methods', i.e., negating and escaping someone's grasp) date from the 1920's, IIRC, so even the Kodokan studied the issue.
- 'Against judo' was not my term, but rather Admiral Takeshita's. It might be useful to remember that in those days that karate-do was very limited but that judo was very combative, incorporating kicks, strikes, etc........ Very much more like today's karate-do than today's judo.
NBK wrote:I'm pretty sure what Admiral Takeshita is on about is largely combinations of hikiotoshi or osaeotoshi. We teach simple series that combine taisabaki with hand / arm movements to off-balance uke and wind up his arms to present a locked elbow joint to control no matter how grasped.
Any video of that ? I think I've tried to find video of Nihon JJ before, but didn't find much. Ever train them to where a skilled judoka tries to get a hold of uke without lunging forward in the typical aikido - esque attack ?