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    noboru

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    Kodokan emblem

    Post by noboru on Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:17 pm

    On the new Kodokan website is their explanation of Kodokan emblem meaning.

    Source:
    http://kodokanjudoinstitute.org/en/beginner/about/


    What images was the Kodokan symbol derived from?
    The red circle expresses an iron-core that is fired, and the white outward means the floss silk that wraps the core. The floss silk is pure white and has toughness although it is soft. The more one forges iron, the more it becomes strong.

    The symbol expresses the idea that Kodokan members should always have the following spirit: Soft-outward and hard-inward. That is to say, they should have a mighty heart and strengthened physical ability while they behave softly, calmly and rightly to others.

    The symbol was made in 1940 improving a symbol that was set by Kano Shihan in the early days of Kodokan. It expresses the spirit of soft-outward and hard-inward. The flower-shaped outward expresses a flower shaped mirror that means trainees should have always Shihan's words in their mind.
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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by noboru on Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:24 pm

    Some other pages on world contain similar informations:

    http://judoinfo.com/kdk.htm

    Although this is the most widely-publicized interpretation of the Kodokan symbol in the west, it is not the most accurate account. A cherry blossom (sakurabana) in Japanese crests is always represented with five petals, as shown in this symbol and photo of a cherry blossom. By contrast, the Kodokan emblem has eight pointed lobes. Some judo clubs and organisations have used the five-lobed cherry as part of their emblems, and as a meaningful Samurai symbol it is also accepted. But the Kodokan symbol has different origins. The colors in the symbol worn by members of the Kodokan represents a piece of red hot iron surrounded by pure white floss silk -- hard in the centre, soft on the outside. The badge emphasizes the judo principle that the soft controls the hard, or gentleness can control force, that one can win by using the opponent's force against himself.

    The Kodokan symbol was not used until after Jigoro Kano died, so he may not have been involved in selecting it. A small pamphlet purportedly published by the Kodokan explained that the current Kodokan symbol was introduced in October 1940, and that the form is modeled after an ancient 8-sided copper mirror (called yata-no-kagami). This mirror is chronicled in Japanese Shinto legends and the shape is represented in numerous Japanese crests (mon). The mirror, reflecting everything truthfully, is a symbol for honesty. The red circle in the center was intended to symbolize a sincere and passionate mind. This historical account is now accepted as the authentic origin of the Kodokan symbol, and it has been confirmed by the Kodokan (Naoki Murata, director of the Kodokan Museum).

    The Kodokan symbol is the representation of Yata no Kagami, or "The Mirror Yata" or "The Octagonal Mirror". According to the mythical history of Japan, the Gods offered three sacred gifts to the first japanese emperor to prove his "divine descendence":

    KUSANAGI NO TSURUGI - "The Sword Kusanagi"
    YASAKANI NO MAGATAMA - "The Jewel Yasakani"
    YATA NO KAGAMI - "The Mirror Yata"
    The Yata no Kagami is not a normal mirror. Unlike normal mirrors that reflect our external image, Yata no Kagami reflects our soul. For this reason, there are always mirrors inside Shinto temples (it is said the original Yata no Kagame still remains untouched inside a Shinto temple in Japan). Applying Shinto concepts in the symbol of Judo, the white color of Yata no Kagami represents the Judoka's search for purifying his/her soul, and the red sun in the middle stands for the virtues of Judo which the Judoka should focus on.
    Chinese 8-sided bronze mirror with shape similar to Kodokan symbol The 8-sided mirror was a design that was also common in China. This photo shows an 8-sided bronze mirror most likely from the Tang dynasty (some time before 800 AD). In China, as in Japan, such mirrors were often more than just a grooming aid. The inscriptions on the rim, in this example, indicate possible ritual usage by Daoist priests. The circle at the top represents heaven, while the square below represents earth. This mirror is on display at the Freer Gallery of Art in Washington DC.

    For more information see this article published in 1963: The Story of the Kodokan Badge by Senta Yamada.


    The story of the Kodokan badge
    http://judoinfo.com/pdf/KodokanBadgeMarch1963.pdf

    Kodokan Emblem Revisited - David Waterhouse
    http://www.kanosociety.org/bulletins/bulletin5.htm
    Judoka everywhere are familiar with the emblem of the Kodokan. In the May 1997 issue of the Yudansha Journal, two contrasting explanations of it were presented: from the book Judo Training Methods: A Sourcebook (1962), by Takahiko Ishikawa and Donn F. Draeger; and from a 1963 article by Senta Yamada. The editors of Yudansha Journal, reprinting the latter, felt it necessary to add: “This article does not represent the beliefs of Judo Canada. It has been included solely for your interest”. I had never previously thought about the history and meaning of the Kodokan emblem; and Judo Canada’s nervousness about associating itself with the explanation given by Senta Yamada suggests that I am not alone. However, a little research proves that Yamada-sensei, a distinguished teacher of both judo and aikido, was basically correct (even if his final comments raise questions); and that Donn Draeger, for many years the foremost Western authority on Japanese and other Asian martial arts, was in this instance wrong. Draeger states in part: “the standard emblem of the Kodokan is an 8 petalled flower of the cherry tree. It was adopted by feudal Samurai because the flower is detached from the branch at the apogee of its beauty in order to die.: In classical Japanese poetry cherry blossom represents the evanescence and fragility of human life and beauty; and it continued to be a favorite if hackneyed image in Japanese literature, visual art and the theatre. Cherry blossom has other traditional associations in Japan, for example, with the courtesans of the Yoshiwara, and as a euphemism for edible horse meat (which is supposed to be the same shade of pink). Some prominent warrior families adopted a crest-badge based on a stylized cherry blossom; but I cannot discover that it was particularly associated with the samurai before modern times. Draeger may have been influenced by Eugen Herrigel’s well-known Zen in the Art of Archery (1953): “It is not for nothing that the Samurai have chosen for their truest symbol the fragile cherry blossom.

    Like a petal dropping in the morning sunlight and floating serenely to earth, so must the fearless detach himself from life, silent and inwardly unmoved:. Herrigel’s book, first written in 1936, was twice translated into Japanese (1937 and 1940); and at about this time cherry blossom did assume a new significance in Japanese militarist circles. Thus, the Sakurakai, “Cherry Society”, was a clique of extremist army officers; and towards the end of World War II cherry blossom (Oka in Sino Japanese) was a potent symbol for the Kamikaze pilots. Manned suicide bombs were called oh jinrai, “cherry blossom kamikaze”; and in February 1945 one young pilot left the following haiku poem (as translated by Ivan Morris):only we might fall in the Spring— So pure and radiant There are two conclusive arguments against Draeger’s identification. First the cherry blossom emblem is almost invariably shown with five convex lobes or petals where the Kodokan emblem has eight ogival lobes. (Some foreign judo dubs and organisations have used the five-lobed cherry as part of their emblems; Judo Canada, using five ogival lobes, contñves to get the best of both worlds.) Secondly, the Kodokan itself has given the following explanation:

    About the principle of gentleness: the badge worn by members of the Kodokan represents a piece of red hot iron surrounded by pure white floss silk — hard in the centre, soft on the outside. The badge emphasizes the judo principle that the soft controls the hard, or gentleness can control force: that one can win by using the opponent’s force against himself. One of the fascinations of Judo that has been responsible for its expansion and development abroad is probably the kind of sensational win which bears out the contention that a “small man can beat a big man”. This principle was inherited from the Jujutsu era and must be passed on to future generations. The original Japanese text of this book makes essentially the same statement. A small pamphlet published by the Kodokan a few years ago adds further - The symbol was introduced in October 1940. The form is modelled after an ancient copper mirror. The red circle in the center symbolizes a sincere and passionate mind. The red circle is concealed by a white area which expresses soft and gentle white floss-silk.

    Senta Yamada correctly identifies the outer shape of the Kodokan emblem as a yata no kagami, or yata-kaganil. In Japanese legends chronicled in the early 8th century yata-kagami, “eight-hand mirror”, refers to a huge mirror, suspended by the deities on the middle branches of a great tree. This, along with a lewd dance performed by another goddess, helped to persuade the Sun Goddehs, Arnaterasu, out of hiding; and light was restored to the world. Despite what Yaniada sam nobody knows exactly what yata means in the chronicles, or what the original yata-kagaini looked like. The yata-kagami is also one of the Three Treasures associated with Amaterasu; and the word came to be most commonly used in this context. The sanshu no shinki, “Three Kinds of Divine Implement”, are the Mirror, Sword and Curved Jewel: of which the originals are supposed to be kept secretly in the Kotai Jingu, one of the two great Shinto shrines at The Amaterasu herself is not only the most important of the Shinto deities, but also the lineal ancestor of the Japanese imperial house, closely associated with it throughout history.

    All other bronzed mirrors described as yata-kagami are copies of the one at Ise. Almost all the earliest Japanese mirrors with eight ogival lobes, in the shape of the flower of a water chestnut (hishi), date from the 10th century or later; and production of such mirrors was clearly stimulated by the cult of the Sun Goddess. In turn, this eight-lobed mirror pattern was a direct imitation of one fashionable in the Tang-dynasty China during the eighth century (though most Tang examples have rounded rather than pointed lobes.) Ultimately, the shape was inspired by art of Iran. Among the myriad varieties of Japanese crest-badge (mon) is the sanshu no shinki, an eight-lobed ogival outline enclosing two crossed straight swords and two comma-shaped jewels. This mon is associated with many Shinto shrines; and Kano Jigoro’s father came from a long and distinguished line of Shinto priests. No doubt the Kodokan emblem was in the first instance an adaptation of the outer shape of this mon, with the substitution of a red circle on a white round. It was not evidence that it but rather a badge of membership in originally a “logo” for the Kodokan ,the institution, to be worn on the left the judogi jacket. I find nohad been designed by Kano Jigoro himself. After Kano’s death in May 1938, his nephew Rear-Admiral Nango Jiro was second head of the Kodokan, from December 1938 until the end of World War II. In 1943 he devised the kata Joshi Judo Goshin-ho, “Methods of Judo Self-Protection for Women”. It would certainly not have been beyond him to devise a new emblem for the Kodokan; and in 1940 there was a special reason for doing so.

    The meaning of the badge is partly explained by the Kodokan in the two passages quoted above; but the red circle on a white ground is also the hi no maru, the circle of the sun, as seen on the Japanese flag. 1944 was publicly commemorated as the 2600th anniversary of the founding of the Empire, the main events taking place November 10th. The Kodokan played its part, with anniversary tournaments in June, and October and on 10 November a match between Waseda and Keio Universities. Perhaps the Kodokan emblem made its first appearance on one of these occasions; and that its creation was in part a patriotic gesture. After World War II, it was perhaps deemed inappropriate to acknowledge this; and the cherry blossom explanation could have come into circulation. There was actually nothing to be ashamed of; and today both Japanese and the rest of us can afford to be more relaxed about the past, without covering it with whitewash. Judoka may continue to enjoy and use the Kodokan emblem, as an elegant summation of much that judo stands for: including not least the old motto ju yoku go o sei suru, “softness will effectively control hardness”
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    noboru

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    The three sacred imperial treasures

    Post by noboru on Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:46 pm

    According to the mythical history of Japan, the Gods offered three sacred gifts to the first japanese emperor to prove his "divine descendence":

    KUSANAGI NO TSURUGI - "The Sword Kusanagi"
    YASAKANI NO MAGATAMA - "The Jewel Yasakani"
    YATA NO KAGAMI - "The Mirror Yata"

    Here is one picture of models (Artist's impression of the Imperial Regalia of Japan)


    More info from Ise Jingú website http://www.isejingu.or.jp/english/myth/myth4.htm
    The three sacred imperial treasures consist of the sacred mirror called Yata-no-Kagami, the sacred sword called Ame-no-murakumo-no-Tsurugi and the sacred jewel called Yasakani-no-Magatama. According to Shinto thought, the mirror as reflecting everything properly is a symbol for "Honesty," the sword for "Braveness," and the jewel for "Affection."
    Now, the sacred mirror is enshrined as the august symbol of Amaterasu Omikami at Ise Jingu, while the sacred sword is enshrined as the august symbol for kami at Atsuta Jingu of Nagoya City, and the sacred jewel Yasakani-no-Magatama is preserved in the Imperial Palace.
    When Amaterasu Omikami gave the sacred mirror to Ninigi-no-mikoto, her grandson, she said: "Think of this sacred mirror as none other than myself, take care of it, and worship it forever." Ever since, the successive emperors have worshiped Amaterasu Omikami, believing her to reside in this mirror, and after Ise Jingu had been established, they have worshiped Amaterasu Omikami with even more reverence.
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    NBK

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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by NBK on Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:06 pm

    The yata no kagami is used fairly widely.  

    The Nihon Budokan (Japan's Hall of the Way of Martial Arts) symbol is the eight-sided mirror.  As is the building itself, seen from above:

    Even the lights inside - I've given demonstrations there, and seen many more.


    The earliest I know offhand is the symbol of the government sponsored, Imperial family patronized Dai Nihon Butokai (Imperial Japanese Martial Virtues Association), founded in the late 1800's, also used it in it's symbol, so it is on the many documents I have from the organization.


    The cherry blossom / sakura is completely different.  Widely used in government symbols today, including military insignia, ensigns, symbols etc.  This is the dataplate from a Komatsu mllitary vehicle:


    This page has some symbols of the Maritime Self Defense Force staff, commanders, etc. An admiral's flag: three or four cherry blossoms.  A Brit equivalent would be the crown, the US equivalent stars.

    MSDF rank, etc.

    Kano shihan and his senior students / instructional heads of the Kodokan held high rank in the DaiNihon Butokukai from at least the early 1900's.   I have a complete list someplace, was reading it recently.  His nephew wasn't highly ranked until he became the second head of the Kodokan, then was listed as 'kancho', head of the institute, but not as a high technically ranked judoka like the others (he was only 2 or 3 dan).

    NBK
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    noboru

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     Dai Nihon Butokukai medals with Yama no kagami

    Post by noboru on Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:06 pm

    Oh yes, I saw some  Dai Nihon Butokukai (Imperial Japanese Martial Virtues Association) medals or stick pins with this shaped:




    Source:
    http://museum.hikari.us/books/Butoku/

    Time to time they are available on ebay and Kodokan badges too. Time to time is possible buy the Kodokan badge in Kodokan eshop and there are in Kodokan shop catalogue.
    http://kodokanjudoinstitute.org/pdf/info/baiten_catalog2014.pdf page 8
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    NBK

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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by NBK on Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:24 am

    I haven't looked at the Kodokan online shop for a long time since I go to the actual Kodokan all the time, and the small kiosk has many of the items. But they've greatly expanded the selection.

    Thanks for posting.

    NBK
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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by NBK on Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:00 pm

    yes - you've found a small collection of the huge number of pins and such that the original Butokukai granted and sold.

    The new Butokukai, which claims the lineage of the original two different Butokukai (it's a long story...) still uses the eight sided mirror.


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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by DougNZ on Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:20 pm

    NBK wrote:yes - you've found a small collection of the huge number of pins and such that the original Butokukai granted and sold.

    The new Butokukai, which claims the lineage of the original two different Butokukai (it's a long story...) still uses the eight sided mirror.


    I would be interested in a short version of the long story, if you can spare the time, NBK. I have wondered how authentic the new DNBK is. They seem to give an awful lot of Westerners high grades without a lot of questions being asked.
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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by NBK on Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:53 am

    I wrote extensively on this in the old forum. Here's the short version, reinforced by my personally going to the place and interviewing one of the directors, buying histories outside, and reading up.

    The original Butokukai was monitored by the Ministry of Education, and patronized by a (distant) member of the Imperial family, one of the 'cadet' branches (something like 18th in line for the Imperial throne if everyone else piled in a single bus and went over a cliff).

    In 1942 or so (IIRC, not without my notes), the original Butokukai was disbanded and a new one established, new charter, etc. I found some of the unpublished original notes for the new charter tucked away in an obscure book, documenting the change to its objectives. The Chair was Prime Minister Tojo Hideki, vice chairs the Ministers of the Army, Navy, Education, Health, etc.

    Postwar several of those folks were hauled off as Class A war criminals or otherwise banned from public service for life. The status of the Butokukai was sort of in limbo, there were a bunch of administrative and public maneuvers, etc. that went on for almost two years. I found and interviewed the US Army officer who actually negotiated what he thought was going to be a generous reform that would allow it to continue; much to his surprise, the remaining Butokukai reps announced they had no intent to reform, and shut the whole thing down. (The new Butokai story that it was forced to disband and the new one is simply their coming out from under that ban is simply not true. I have plenty of evidence to the contrary.)

    The national sports / martial arts organizations quickly moved into the vacuum - the International Martial Arts Federation IMAF www.imaf.com, patronized by Prince Lieutenant General / Uncle of Emperor Hirohito / Higashikuni as a capstone organizaton, the All Japan Judo Federation, the All Japan Kendo Federation, the Kobudo Shinkokai, etc...... All Tokyo based. All these organizations know they replaced the old Butokukai. In fact, I think all the kendo folks in the Butokukai get their ranks from the All Japan Kendo Federation - there is no room for splinters here, mostly, outside of koryu, karatedo, aikido, etc....

    Later some gents in the Kansai area (Osaka / Kyoto), the original and traditional stronghold of the Butokukai, 're-established' the Butokukai, and laid claim to its heritage, etc. The Tokyo martial arts world apparently never noticed.

    They did get the 'patronage' of one of the members of the 'cadet branch' of the Imperial family, Fushimi.... Higashifushimi something or another, the same family that had patronized the original Butokukai (it's late here, and I can't be bothered to look it up.... sorry if not quite right) who, like all the other members of the extended Imperial secondary prince lines became a commoner under the new Constitution, but they still call him 'Prince'. HIs family also actually provides the hereditary priests at a beautiful temple that houses the administrative offices of the new Butokukai. Beautiful place, I recommend a visit.

    Its members seem to often claim some special connection to the Butokuden, but that is simply historic to the old organization and geography - the facility is owned by the city of Kyoto and available to any organization there that can apply to the lottery to use it. It was the site of the original Budo Senmon Gakko (Martial Arts Specialty School) which was run by the old Butokukai but all that changed postwar.

    The organization is apparently first and foremost a Kyoto / Kansai area regional organization - mostly kendo, iai, and a sprinkling of other arts. It is simply almost unknown in Tokyo, even among kendo / iai types. I don't think I've ever met a Japanese judoka or jujutsuka that even heard of it before I ask, and I've asked a bunch. Most never heard of the old one, and those that have express surprise that someone co-opted its name. That was a long time ago, and while the originals had direct government sponsorship and oversight, this is not the case now (I think it's registered as an NPO with the Kyoto government, but that is a nothing burger, really....)

    They also have trademarked the eight-sided00:49:42 mirror symbol of the old Butokukai, which I find highly dubious, as I have a couple dozens of them in various forms and the original organization is long long gone, long out of trademark time limits, so I reckon I could use my images as I wish. But I am not a lawyer....

    Regarding promotions, I once saw the application paperwork for someone to join overseas, and it seemed to be a paperwork drill. I don't recall if they asked for a video or whatever. Probably not at the lower levels - part of that may be the difference between Westerners and Japanese - shodan is simply a serious student here, while overseas some think that's close to finished....

    I think it's pretty harmless, and they've apparently had some decently attended international seminars. I would assume that most of the folks are decent - I've met a couple that were outstanding, very good martial artists and Nice Guys - but would not link the new, third generation organization to the legacy of either the first or second generation.

    There was apparently a serious reorganization within the last year or so. Not sure what that portends.

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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by NBK on Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:42 am

    Reading Prof. Waterhouse's quote from the Kano Society , he covers a lot of ground.

    The bit about Sakura being a euphemism for horse meat was based on how Buddhists, meant to not eat meat, masked the guilty pleasure of eating meat with a number of names, most of which I forget. They're actually pretty funny (unless you're a devout Buddhist or vegetarian, I reckon):



    During the Edo period (1603-1868), there were “beast restaurants” that served meat for “medicinal” purposes. Cwiertka writes, “The fact that euphemisms were used when referring to various types of meat indicates that the aura of defilement was associated with the game stew served there. Sakura (cherry) signified horsemeat, momiji (maple) venison and botan (peony) wild boar, the last also being known as ‘mountain whale’ (yamakujira).”
    ( https://tokyotombaker.wordpress.com/2013/08/03/around-japan-in-47-curries-kumamoto-horse-meat/ )

    The 2600 year anniversary of the founding of the Empire was 1940.

    I've never seen the use of the three Imperial treasures in a family crest before - and Kano shihan's family crest was very different, three leaves inside a ring. It sounds odd to me - almost lese majesty - but pre-dating the Meiji era and the deification of the Emperor, I guess that makes sense.  

    UPDATE: Here's a kamon with the three Imperial Regalia, but this is the only one I can find after looking for quite a while:

    Note that the two 'jewels', actually magatama, a tear-drop shaped bead, are positioned to form the shape commonly noted as yin-yang.   In context of the eight trigrams noted by Anatol below, you get:


    Draeger sensei had his minor errors but  Herrigel apparently just made up key observations about Zen and the art of archery.  Despite its popularity his book has problems.  Mainstream archery kyûdô simply does not have the Zen aspects that Herrigel ascribed to it.


    Last edited by NBK on Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:18 am; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by DougNZ on Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:01 am

    NBK wrote:I wrote extensively on this in the old forum.  Here's the short version, reinforced by my personally going to the place and interviewing one of the directors, buying histories outside, and reading up.

    NBK

    Thank you, NBK. That is very interesting.

    We have a few people here who have brown nosed with the DNBK and who have suddenly become more Japanese than the Japanese, looking down their nose at anyone without a Japanese grading / validation. It seems as though the DNBK is better known outside Japan than it is within.

    We also have one or two jujutsuka who have dealings with IMAF and who take the same sort of approach. Ironically, there are only one or two jujutsu organisations in NZ that have a direct Japanese connection, usually because a NZ-trained yudansha has sought out a Japanese teacher abroad. Not a single school remains that was established in NZ by a Japanese practitioner.

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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by Anatol on Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:09 am

    Hi Noboru

    he Kodokan symbol was not used until after Jigoro Kano died, so he may not have been involved in selecting it. A small pamphlet purportedly published by the Kodokan explained that the current Kodokan symbol was introduced in October 1940, and that the form is modeled after an ancient 8-sided copper mirror (called yata-no-kagami). This mirror is chronicled in Japanese Shinto legends and the shape is represented in numerous Japanese crests (mon). The mirror, reflecting everything truthfully, is a symbol for honesty. The red circle in the center was intended to symbolize a sincere and passionate mind. This historical account is now accepted as the authentic origin of the Kodokan symbol, and it has been confirmed by the Kodokan (Naoki Murata, director of the Kodokan Museum).

    ....

    Chinese 8-sided bronze mirror with shape similar to Kodokan symbol The 8-sided mirror was a design that was also common in China. This photo shows an 8-sided bronze mirror most likely from the Tang dynasty (some time before 800 AD). In China, as in Japan, such mirrors were often more than just a grooming aid. The inscriptions on the rim, in this example, indicate possible ritual usage by Daoist priests. The circle at the top represents heaven, while the square below represents earth. This mirror is on display at the Freer Gallery of Art in Washington DC.




    Why are/were the mirrors of Tang Dynasty 8-sided?

    Tang Dynasty was influenced by Daoism and it was the peak of Daoist influence on chinese culture and art. Great poets, calligraphers, painters and craftmen. The eight sides refers to the "Eight Trigrams" (ba gua 八卦) of the Yi Jing (Book of Changes). As you can see in the  8 sided mirror shown above, there is the circle on top representing "Heaven" and the square at the bottom representing "Earth". On the left side this could be a Fenghuang (like a Phoenix) representing "Fire" and on the right side a Tortoise representing "Water".

    The arrangement in the mirror above is "Early Heaven" (xian tian), referring to a time, when all things were in perfect harmony. Could have been used in a daoist temple.


    .


    Last edited by Anatol on Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by NBK on Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:26 am

    DougNZ wrote:
    NBK wrote:I wrote extensively on this in the old forum.  Here's the short version, reinforced by my personally going to the place and interviewing one of the directors, buying histories outside, and reading up.

    NBK

    Thank you, NBK.  That is very interesting.

    We have a few people here who have brown nosed with the DNBK and who have suddenly become more Japanese than the Japanese, looking down their nose at anyone without a Japanese grading / validation.  It seems as though the DNBK is better known outside Japan than it is within.

    We also have one or two jujutsuka who have dealings with IMAF and who take the same sort of approach.  Ironically, there are only one or two jujutsu organisations in NZ that have a direct Japanese connection, usually because a NZ-trained yudansha has sought out a Japanese teacher abroad.  Not a single school remains that was established in NZ by a Japanese practitioner.
    That's an unfortunate side to some folks that join such organIzations. They're meant to bring folks together, not separate them. As our learned Anatol points out, Confucius said all men have seven flaws. In some a touch of exclusivity brings out new ones. But I hear rumors about some organizations. Elitism and hierarchy are rampant in kôryû practitioners, the latter with some link to tradition.

    I wasn't aware there is anyone current in IMAF in NZ. there were years ago IIRC. and id likely know as I'm one of a handful of folks licensed by IMAF to teach jûjutsu. I just may not be current on the branches. Nihon Jujutsu had one splinter group that stole the entire curriculum decades ago and no telling where that ended up. Here's the headquarters www.nihonjujutsu.com
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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by NBK on Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:19 am

    Reposted from above edit since the edit was longer than I thought:

    Reading Prof. Waterhouse's quote from the Kano Society , he covers a lot of ground.

    The bit about Sakura being a euphemism for horse meat was based on how Buddhists, meant to not eat meat, masked the guilty pleasure of eating meat with a number of names, most of which I forget. They're actually pretty funny (unless you're a devout Buddhist or vegetarian, I reckon):



    During the Edo period (1603-1868), there were “beast restaurants” that served meat for “medicinal” purposes. Cwiertka writes, “The fact that euphemisms were used when referring to various types of meat indicates that the aura of defilement was associated with the game stew served there. Sakura (cherry) signified horsemeat, momiji (maple) venison and botan (peony) wild boar, the last also being known as ‘mountain whale’ (yamakujira).”
    ( https://tokyotombaker.wordpress.com/2013/08/03/around-japan-in-47-curries-kumamoto-horse-meat/ )




    The 2600 year anniversary of the founding of the Empire was 1940.

    I've never seen the use of the three Imperial treasures in a family crest before - and Kano shihan's family crest was very different, three leaves inside a ring. It sounds odd to me - almost lese majesty - but pre-dating the Meiji era and the deification of the Emperor, I guess that makes sense.  

    UPDATE: Here's a kamon with the three Imperial Regalia, but this is the only one I can find after looking for quite a while:

    Note that the two 'jewels', actually magatama, a tear-drop shaped bead, are positioned to form the shape commonly noted as yin-yang.   In context of the eight trigrams noted by Anatol above, you get:

    Which, stripped of half the trigrams and turned on its side (which has its own significance) is the center of the Republic of Korea flag:


    Draeger sensei had his minor errors but  Herrigel apparently just made up key observations about Zen and the art of archery.  Despite its popularity his book has problems.  Mainstream archery kyûdô simply does not have the Zen aspects that Herrigel ascribed to it.


    Last edited by NBK on Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : long update)

    Anatol

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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by Anatol on Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:20 am

    Hi NBK

    Note that the two 'jewels', actually magatama, a tear-drop shaped bead, are positioned to form the shape commonly noted as yin-yang.

    Not all, which seems buddhist is buddhist (see Herrigel and kyudo ...) and not all, which seems daoist is daoist ;-)

    Magatama in this comma-shape are juwelery, dating back in Japan to the first millenium BCE.  The yinyang symbol in shape of a "doublefish" like in the korean flag is used in China first during Ming Dynasty (16th century) by Lai Zhide. As the Three Imperial Regalia of Japan are represented to the Emperor by a priest since 690, the shape of Yasakani no Magatama has no context with Daoism especially with Yin/Yang - it only has its very old shape like a comma.


    Jade is a classic symbol for purity and longevity.

    Must be neoconfucian influence, that the yasakani no magatama should represent "Benevolence" (ren, 仁 ), one of the Five central Values/Constants (wu chang 五常 ) of Confucianism.

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    NBK

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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by NBK on Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:44 am

    Makes sense to me .... One man's bead is another man's jewelery. But it was drilled to hang from a ligature, perhaps with a row of others, hence 'bead'.

    But I think that particular kamon 家紋 / family crest itself very much post dates both the magatama and the yin yang symbol (JA 陰陽 inyō), perhaps unlikely to predate 1700's? So while your history sounds right, I might disagree with the conclusion. I spotted a ref about that crest that refered to mid 1800's, not sure if that was its origin or first recording, which would make it far more recent than either.

    So, it could be all of the above! The overall style of the kamon impresses me as much later. But perhaps what is more interesting is its use of the magatama in that yin yang shape - I think it not coincidence.

    The magatama seems stronger in Japanese culture if not fairly unique in ubiquity here. You can spot Japnese wearing them today. there is even a book called 'The Magatama Doodle' about Japanese bureaucratic culture by a Westerner who noticed that any number of Japanese bureaucrats he dealt with would absent mindedly sketch magatama while they talked to him......

    Anatol

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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by Anatol on Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:08 am

    My mistake NBK ...

    The particular symbolize definitely yin/yang.


    Japan is deeply influenced by China - in many ways - but the magatama are genuin japanese.

    There are not a lot of things in japanese culture, which are genuin japanese.


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    DougNZ

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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by DougNZ on Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:39 am

    NBK wrote:I wasn't aware there is anyone current in IMAF in NZ. there were years ago IIRC. and id likely know as I'm one of a handful of folks licensed by IMAF to teach jûjutsu.  I just may not be current on the branches.   Nihon Jujutsu had one splinter group that stole the entire curriculum decades ago and no telling where that ended up. Here's the headquarters www.nihonjujutsu.com  

    You may be correct, NBK.  Butler sensei and some of his students were graded by Sato sensei in 1995. IMAF received a bit of publicity shortly after but I've heard nothing much about the organisation since.  One other kodansha had his grades recently ratified by DNBK through Tattersall sensei in the UK.

    I take it that nihonjujutsu.com is not the splinter group you were talking of...?

    Interesting that the 'official' jujutsu branch style is a recreation of judo, aikido and control & restraint.  I would have thought that there would have been a greater koryu influence or something with more heritage and stronger lineage.  Without knowing the style, it seems like it must be more goshin jutsu than jujutsu. I guess it pays to be in the right place at the right times and have the right connections.
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    NBK

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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by NBK on Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:04 am

    DougNZ wrote:
    NBK wrote:I wasn't aware there is anyone current in IMAF in NZ. there were years ago IIRC. and id likely know as I'm one of a handful of folks licensed by IMAF to teach jûjutsu.  I just may not be current on the branches.   Nihon Jûjutsu had one splinter group that stole the entire curriculum decades ago and no telling where that ended up. Here's the headquarters www.nihonjujutsu.com  

    You may be correct, NBK.  Butler sensei and some of his students were graded by Sato sensei in 1995. IMAF received a bit of publicity shortly after but I've heard nothing much about the organisation since.  One other kodansha had his grades recently ratified by DNBK through Tattersall sensei in the UK.

    I take it that nihonjujutsu.com is not the splinter group you were talking of...?

    Interesting that the 'official' jujutsu branch style is a recreation of judo, aikido and control & restraint.  I would have thought that there would have been a greater koryu influence or something with more heritage and stronger lineage.  Without knowing the style, it seems like it must be more goshin jutsu than jujutsu.  I guess it pays to be in the right place at the right times and have the right connections.
    1995 was 20 years ago. I know of no current relationship. If they're not current, they're not authorized per the IMAF charter, etc. They're not unwelcome, but they're not currently connected AFAIK. I may be wrong, will check.

    Yes, www.nihonjujutsu.com is the authorized group, Sato sensei's main dôjô. The main splinter group started when Mochizuki Minoru and his bunch. mostly Yoseikan budô, split off; I think there are a number of his students still active in Europe, and some apparently teach Nihon Jûjutsu.

    I don't understand the goshinjutsu comment, especially if you don't know the style (but then again, I don't understand what that really means). Nihon Jûjutsu was derived from Ueshiba Morihei's prewar aikibujutsu with some added techniques from Japanese police taihôjutsu, which of course drew those from various jûjutsu schools. Check the history link at the above link. Ueshiba sensei drew from a number of old jûjutsu schools in developing what he called and taught as aikibujtsu, and refined that into aikidô postwar. But as a post-Meiji Restoration, syncretic styles, both aikidô and Nihon Jûjutsu are both termed gendai budô rather than koryû.

    It ain't ballet, but I guess that you could call it goshinjutsu if you wish. Would you call Yoshinkan or Shôdôkan aikidô 'goshinjutsu'? Nihon Jûjutsu is in essence the antecedent or precursor style of both, the missing link between those schools and aikibujutsu. The founders of both, Shioda Goza and Tomiki Kenji, both studied under and taught aikibujutsu on behalf of Ueshiba Morihei. I see both regularly, and they're all very closely related, and have more depth than self-defense techniques. All three include extensive study of balance, kuzushi, movement, taisabaki, etc.

    By the way IMAF has a koryû division that includes Yagyu Shingan ryû, a koryû jûjutsu. Nice guys, interesting school.

    NBK
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    Jihef

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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by Jihef on Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:16 pm

    NBK wrote:The founders of both, Shioda Goza and Tomiki Kenji, both studied under and taught aikibujutsu on behalf of Ueshiba Morihei. I see both regularly, and they're all very closely related, and have more depth than self-defense techniques.  
    You have to slow down on that mushroom soup… Wink


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    NBK

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    Re: Kodokan emblem

    Post by NBK on Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:29 pm

    Jihef wrote:
    NBK wrote:The founders of both, Shioda Goza and Tomiki Kenji, both studied under and taught aikibujutsu on behalf of Ueshiba Morihei. I see both regularly, and they're all very closely related, and have more depth than self-defense techniques.  
    You have to slow down on that mushroom soup… Wink

    I wrote that at 330AM, and for a moment before I fell asleep, I thought it looked a bit odd....

    But cream of psylocybin.... my favorite.....



    Nyuck nyuck nyuck......

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