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    Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

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    NBK

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    Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by NBK on Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:30 pm

    My congratulations to the Kodokan for publishing new English kata booklets, for free, and in English!!  cheers   The new pictures are much better than the old ones, which one aspect of the project that really drove me crazy while working on the translation.  

    Free Kodokan English kata booklets

    These are translated and expanded versions (i.e., with additional detail regarding body motion, relative positioning, etc.) of the Japanese booklets here on the website (colored booklets ¥540 and ¥756 at the link).  Kodokan online shop - books

    One aspect I simply could not convince the Kôdôkan leadership of was the utility, indeed the necessity, of using macrons / long marks.  Hence, you'll see judo versus jûdô, etc.  I thought that the macrons would be very useful to those at least attempting to learn how to pronounce Japanese correctly, but was unable to do so for reasons I could never fathom.  

    I don't know when these were posted because I don't check very often, but assume that it is fairly recently.  Frankly I'm puzzled for why it took ten years after I finished the initial translations (2005). There were expanded explanations in some areas that I reviewed time after time with multiple sensei, and how (or why) the English, that had been as perfect as possible, edited countless times over near two years, were modified back in several places to leave out detail (such as 'insert hands, palms up, under uke's shoulders....) and edited to be not-so-perfect English with less detail. Oh, well, still very useful, I think.

    Any questions as to what these describe I'm sure someone can explain.  

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    Jonesy

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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by Jonesy on Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:07 pm

    Awesome job NBK and thank you for your work in making these valuable guides accessible to non-Japanese literate judoka.


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    NBK

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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by NBK on Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:09 pm

    Jonesy wrote:Awesome job NBK and thank you for your work in making these valuable guides accessible to non-Japanese literate judoka.  

    You're welcome.

    I thought the Kodokan was going to sell the English books, so I didn't want to interfere with their business. Since they put these up for free, I would note that I have much more detailed ones that key off the same pics (I need to double check.....) that I wrote to have much more detail.

    As in, these read something like:
    - reach across and grasp uke's collar
    .... because it was primarily a direct translation of the fairly brief Japanese editions, with very minor clarifications

    I wrote and proposed things like:
    - Tori reaches across Uke with his left hand / palm up, to grasp Uke's collar with his left hand, palm up, inserting his fingers inside Uke's collar, thumb outside
    ... which was rejected or edited out

    Maybe I'll post them there someday, or on a Wordpress site. That's pretty easy, but I'm pretty dumb about such.

    They'd be good references for anyone taking the kata course this summer.

    Lg

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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by cokiee on Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:56 am

    Thank you NBK, for your work, and for alerting us to the availability of these translated versions.

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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by hobit on Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:10 am

    NBK Brilliant Thank you. Just finished a Ju No Kata course and was wondering how I was going to remember it.
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    thank you

    Post by noboru on Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:34 am

    Many thanks to NBK and Kodokan.
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    BillC

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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by BillC on Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:32 pm

    NBK wrote:
    You're welcome.

    I thought the Kodokan was going to sell the English books, so I didn't want to interfere with their business.  Since they put these up for free, I would note that I have much more detailed ones that key off the same pics (I need to double check.....) that I wrote to have much more detail.  

    As in, these read something like:
    - reach across and grasp uke's collar
    .... because it was primarily a direct translation of the fairly brief Japanese editions, with very minor clarifications

    I wrote and proposed things like:
    - Tori reaches across Uke with his left hand / palm up, to grasp Uke's collar with his left hand, palm up, inserting his fingers inside Uke's collar, thumb outside
    ... which was rejected or edited out  

    Maybe I'll post them there someday, or on a Wordpress site.  That's pretty easy, but I'm pretty dumb about such.

    They'd be good references for anyone taking the kata course this summer.  

    Lg

    Yeah ... when I peeked at these a while back, I was pretty sure that terms like "the back of the palm" was not your translation.

    Ran into the koshikinokata translator on the train from from last evening's party (that you missed it was probably OK). The translator in turn was on his way back from his class in Shinjuku. Saw him first, not surprising given the thickness of his glasses, he remained pretty calm when I plopped down loudly and heavily on a mostly empty subway car. In any case, no word on the publication of the missing two kata guides.


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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by NBK on Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:36 pm

    BillC wrote:
    NBK wrote:
    You're welcome.

    I thought the Kodokan was going to sell the English books, so I didn't want to interfere with their business.  Since they put these up for free, I would note that I have much more detailed ones that key off the same pics (I need to double check.....) that I wrote to have much more detail.  

    As in, these read something like:
    - reach across and grasp uke's collar
    .... because it was primarily a direct translation of the fairly brief Japanese editions, with very minor clarifications

    I wrote and proposed things like:
    - Tori reaches across Uke with his left hand / palm up, to grasp Uke's collar with his left hand, palm up, inserting his fingers inside Uke's collar, thumb outside
    ... which was rejected or edited out  

    Maybe I'll post them there someday, or on a Wordpress site.  That's pretty easy, but I'm pretty dumb about such.

    They'd be good references for anyone taking the kata course this summer.  

    Lg

    Yeah ... when I peeked at these a while back, I was pretty sure that terms like "the back of the palm" was not your translation.

    Ran into the koshikinokata translator on the train from from last evening's party (that you missed it was probably OK).  The translator in turn was on his way back from his class in Shinjuku.  Saw him first, not surprising given the thickness of his glasses, he remained pretty calm when I plopped down loudly and heavily on a mostly empty subway car.  In any case, no word on the publication of the missing two kata guides.

    I think that gent is translating it for personal purposes, not for the Kodokan.

    I declined to tackle either Ju no Kata or Koshiki no Kata without some further instruction in those kata, as the motions are hard to describe. Particularly since the initial task was to translate the existing Japanese reference booklets, which are rather terse, let's call them.
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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by BillC on Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:50 pm

    NBK wrote:I declined to tackle either Ju no Kata or Koshiki no Kata without some further instruction in those kata, as the motions are hard to describe.  Particularly since the initial task was to translate the existing Japanese reference booklets, which are rather terse, let's call them.

    Especially since there is already an entire book, an elaboration of her original, written by a lady who dedicated the latter half of her life to junokata. That she got it "right" I understand is sometimes up for debate ...

    http://www.amazon.com/Ju-No-Kata-Kodokan-Textbook-Keiko-Fukuda/dp/1556435045


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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by wdax on Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:04 pm

    BillC wrote:
    NBK wrote:I declined to tackle either Ju no Kata or Koshiki no Kata without some further instruction in those kata, as the motions are hard to describe.  Particularly since the initial task was to translate the existing Japanese reference booklets, which are rather terse, let's call them.

    Especially since there is already an entire book, an elaboration of her original, written by a lady who dedicated the latter half of her life to junokata.  That she got it "right" I understand is sometimes up for debate ...

    http://www.amazon.com/Ju-No-Kata-Kodokan-Textbook-Keiko-Fukuda/dp/1556435045

    Depends what you want. The textbooks are a basic definition of the kata - no less, no more. For that purpose I would rate the Ju-no-Kata booklet 4.5 of 5 stars.

    If more details are described, it starts to become a personal interpretation. Kata must always leave some room for individual variations based on the same core ideas ("principles"). Variation is part of the learning path from copying to understanding (shu-ha-ri).

    A more and more detailed description of what people are copying doesn´t really help.
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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by BillC on Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:21 pm

    wdax wrote:
    BillC wrote:
    NBK wrote:I declined to tackle either Ju no Kata or Koshiki no Kata without some further instruction in those kata, as the motions are hard to describe.  Particularly since the initial task was to translate the existing Japanese reference booklets, which are rather terse, let's call them.

    Especially since there is already an entire book, an elaboration of her original, written by a lady who dedicated the latter half of her life to junokata.  That she got it "right" I understand is sometimes up for debate ...

    http://www.amazon.com/Ju-No-Kata-Kodokan-Textbook-Keiko-Fukuda/dp/1556435045

    Depends what you want. The textbooks are a basic definition of the kata - no less, no more. For that purpose I would rate the Ju-no-Kata booklet 4.5 of 5 stars.

    If more details are described, it starts to become a personal interpretation. Kata must always leave some room for individual variations based on the same core ideas ("principles"). Variation is part of the learning path from copying to understanding (shu-ha-ri).

    A more and more detailed description of what people are copying doesn´t really help.

    Some of my point is involves a personal difference between Dr. NBK and myself, he likes to present the student with a high level of theoretical detail to the student from the beginning; I prefer to present one thing at a time starting with gross movements ... then correcting only what is not ideal.  It's a disagreement about how people best learn a physical skill.

    As you note it depends on the purpose of the literature ... is it the definitive text of a person's work, or is it intended as a basic guide ... a reference only?  NBK seems unhappy with the brevity and lack of detail, he would have liked to add more.  I was pointing out that for the junokata he referred to, at least one finely detailed text exists ... it even has the word "Kodokan" on the cover.  I think your point may be "why do we need another?"  Certainly it appears that you for example are letting the kata itself express your understanding, and that is very cool.  No words replace the movement itself, right?  And like most things there is a big gap between talking the talk and walking the walk, the latter being the point all along.  Of course.

    Where Sir NBK has a point however, is that one can't really skip the basic step of copying in the first place.  And one must remember that there a places in the world where there is no one to copy, or where those opportunities are infrequent.  Though my partner and I practice weekly for a couple hours (some would say weakly  Rolling Eyes ) we are the only two people in all of San Diego County doing so, and even we have to travel the 50 km difference between us to make that happen.  No one to watch and advise, no one to practice with who has a better (or worse) feel, no one to kick our ass when we confidently drive the train off the track, through the weeds and down some dirt road.  So to have at least one reference written in detail by at least one person most would agree is/was worth copying, that is truly helpful for some.  It's a personal statement of "this is EXACTLY what I would like you to do."

    About the koshikinokata, the other that NBK mentioned ... here's a real danger.  If Daigo-sensei passes away without leaving a very detailed accounting from his study group, if it is all confined to the personal touch he shows, then within a year of his passing (which of course we all hope is many years away) there will be forty-eleven people running around proclaiming "Daigo-sensei said THIS and Daigo-sensei said THAT" and foremost of those will be those who never met the man except to pose for one of those cheesy pictures with him and who probably don't speak three words of Japanese.  It would be a monumental task to capture the level of detail he is digging up and dishing out.  But it would have been preferable for someone to have captured and organized those notes.


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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by wdax on Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:25 am

    BillC wrote:(...)As you note it depends on the purpose of the literature ... is it the definitive text of a person's work, or is it intended as a basic guide ... a reference only?  NBK seems unhappy with the brevity and lack of detail, he would have liked to add more.  I was pointing out that for the junokata he referred to, at least one finely detailed text exists ... it even has the word "Kodokan" on the cover.  I think your point may be "why do we need another?"  Certainly it appears that you for example are letting the kata itself express your understanding, and that is very cool.  No words replace the movement itself, right? (...)

    Maybe I give you an example of what I mean. About three weeks ago, I was teaching Tsuki-dashi at a seminar. After Tori has taken Uke´s attacking hand and pulls him forward, the booklet says "Tori makes Uke move forward by Tsugi-ashi".

    My partner and I - like most people, who compete at international level - prefer to make two steps until Uke comes in front of Tori. One lady, who participated, asked me, why she should make two steps. She feels, that one step is more natural. I replied, that she is of course free to make only one step, what confused her. But the number of steps is not mentioned in the booklet - only the kind of the step(s) - Tsugi-ashi - is clearly written.

    If there would be a more detailed description, it is very likely, that the number of steps would be defined. With more detail there is a risk to define things, that are intentionally free for the individual.

    Fukuda´s book goes much more into details then the Kodokan textbook. As long as you treat it as an instructional source it is very valuable, but not so much as a reference. There are some points, I do not really agree, but these have nothing to do with Fukuda herself, but with the descriptions. I know from my own experience, that it is very, very difficult, to describe complex things without leaving room for misunderstanding and misinterpretations. No description is really perfect.
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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by BillC on Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:40 am

    wdax wrote:I know from my own experience, that it is very, very difficult, to describe complex things without leaving room for misunderstanding and misinterpretations. No description is really perfect.

    I think you and I are in "violent agreement," especially about "(w)ith more detail there is a risk to define things, that are intentionally free for the individual."  Enough of that going around in judo already.

    You bring up some good points in this last post.  How skilled is the writer?  Do they have a strong command of the language in which they are writing (even their native language)?  And the old problem that often good performers and athletes do not always make for good teachers, especially the ones to whom things come naturally.

    Note however that there is a kind of orthodoxy in budo which precludes the freedom of the individual ... the kind of "copy exact" that would make even Intel complain ... the kind that does not care that your partner is smaller, and female, and that there are any number of people claiming superior knowledge who have expressed a completely opposite demand.  Despite your accomplishments in junokata, I am sure you encounter (maybe older, Japanese) people all the time who tell you you are "wrong."  There is that tradition and one encounters it frequently.  Thus I often jest with a high degree of seriousness that there is no right way to do something in judo, only wrong ones.

    Hope to have the pleasure of meeting you in person some time soon.

    Cheers.

    Bill


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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by wdax on Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:17 am

    BillC wrote:You bring up some good points in this last post.  How skilled is the writer?  Do they have a strong command of the language in which they are writing (even their native language)?  And the old problem that often good performers and athletes do not always make for good teachers, especially the ones to whom things come naturally.

    Yes - if you look at the last page of the Ju-no-Kata book, you will see, that:
    1.) Fukuda Keiko wrote the original in japanese, which was translated by Nobuyuki Taniguchi
    2.) update to the 1996 Kodokan revisions was done by Teri Schweitzer.

    Despite that, the Kodokan-booklet itself says, that the text was:
    - Revised on July 7th, 1977
    - Amended on June 1st, 2007

    Strange, isn´t it? To avoid misunderstanding: In my opinion, this book ist the best instructional book about Ju-no-Kata available, but there are many open questions.

    BillC wrote:(...) Despite your accomplishments in junokata, I am sure you encounter (maybe older, Japanese) people all the time who tell you you are "wrong."  There is that tradition and one encounters it frequently.  Thus I often jest with a high degree of seriousness that there is no right way to do something in judo, only wrong ones.

    Hope to have the pleasure of meeting you in person some time soon.

    Cheers.

    Bill

    From time to time people offer their opinions. In my case these are usually people, who are really high authorities, who´s remarks are always very valuable and welcome. We all need feedback to improve. But from time to time there are also people, who simply want to let me know, what they also know....

    I´m always open for a beer or two ;-)

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    NBK

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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by NBK on Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:13 am

    To BillC's point, I teach adults, and assume they want and need more than 'do this' until they demonstrate they're incapable of absorbing more than 'do this....' I find that in the long run, anyone switched on (US military slang for 'IQ above room temperature and paying attention') makes better progress if they understand the big picture. Others start with rote repetition and eventually introduce the big picture at some later point.

    To clarify, I only added what a number of KDK instructors agreed was correct anatomical and cultural details (e.g., 'tori reaches across uke with his left hand and grasps uke's left collar near uke's collar bone with tori's left hand, palm up, thumb inside, four fingers outside....', 'tori steps forward right-left-right' versus 'tori takes uke's collar....' or 'back of hand up' in the Japanese fashion, or 'tori moves to grasp uke'). That sort of detail is hard to see from most of the videos.

    It seems that part of the reason that the kata descriptions keep getting revised is that there is no such detailed baseline description; as instructors change, they insert their understanding and 'clarify' things.

    NBK
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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by finarashi on Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:53 am

    NBk, my question is which instructions are obbligatory and which are not. i.e. The kata rules says that one should follow Kodokan instructions. If the booklet says  'tori reaches across uke with his left hand and grasps uke's left collar near uke's collar bone with tori's left hand, palm up, thumb inside, four fingers outside....', Then is this the only possible way to perform and all other ways are wrong.

    If we look at discussions on some throw e.g. uchi-mata or o-soto-gari, then there are often huge confusions when there is sentence "..left hand pulls.." but xxx in vide yy does not pull. If I and Uke move right then .. etc.

    IMHO you need to have several layers of explantion and somehow make the majority of readers to realize what is "suggestions" and what are "instructions"


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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by NBK on Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:57 am

    finarashi wrote:NBk, my question is which instructions are obbligatory and which are not. i.e. The kata rules says that one should follow Kodokan instructions. If the booklet says  'tori reaches across uke with his left hand and grasps uke's left collar near uke's collar bone with tori's left hand, palm up, thumb inside, four fingers outside....', Then is this the only possible way to perform and all other ways are wrong.

    If we look at discussions on some throw e.g. uchi-mata or o-soto-gari, then there are often huge confusions when there is sentence "..left hand pulls.." but xxx in vide yy does not pull. If I and Uke move right then .. etc.

    IMHO you need to have several layers of explantion and somehow make the majority of readers to realize what is "suggestions" and what are "instructions"

    Sure - I'm not looking into stylistic differences, I sought to capture the minimum basic mechanics.

    Certainly there's a difference between general principles and defining the minimum necessary movements to execute those principles. Just now on Facebook someone posted Neil Adams' instructional video on uchimata. He talks about 'finding the line' but in the short version I saw, never defined 'the line'. To me, the principle involved can be easily described using terms of uke's body and tori's body's position relative to that without some external construct such as a 'line'.

    The current instructional material leaves too much unanswered, in my opinion. I'm not sure if this is an act of commission, an intentional lack of detail, perhaps to maintain the relative position of the Kodokan in the definition and instruction of kata, or omission, simply leaving it out because it was thought not important or they couldn't reach a consensus on what would be added. I suspect the latter.

    NBK

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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by wdax on Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:24 pm

    NBK wrote:Certainly there's a difference between general principles and defining the minimum necessary movements to execute those principles.
    (...)  
    The current instructional material leaves too much unanswered, in my opinion.  I'm not sure if this is an act of commission, an intentional lack of detail, perhaps to maintain the relative position of the Kodokan in the definition and instruction of kata, or omission, simply leaving it out because it was thought not important or they couldn't reach a consensus on what would be added.  I suspect the latter.  

    NBK

    Very well said! Another question is the purpose of the material. Is it meant to be a supplement to qualified personal instruction or is it meant to be fully instructive for those, who don´t have a qualified teacher...
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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by NBK on Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:14 pm

    wdax wrote:
    NBK wrote:Certainly there's a difference between general principles and defining the minimum necessary movements to execute those principles.
    (...)  
    The current instructional material leaves too much unanswered, in my opinion.  I'm not sure if this is an act of commission, an intentional lack of detail, perhaps to maintain the relative position of the Kodokan in the definition and instruction of kata, or omission, simply leaving it out because it was thought not important or they couldn't reach a consensus on what would be added.  I suspect the latter.  

    NBK

    Very well said! Another question is the purpose of the material. Is it meant to be a supplement to qualified personal instruction or is it meant to be fully instructive for those, who don´t have a qualified teacher...
    I'm certain the former is the case with the old Japanese versions, but Ive not read the latest Japanese versions. Sort of a prompt, a memory aid for someone with prior knowledge, not something for someone without any instruction whatsoever.
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    The Kodokan KATA Textbook of Nage-no-Kata is corrected and updated

    Post by noboru on Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:39 pm

    Info from Kodokan website from today:
    15 Apr. 2015
    The Kodokan KATA Textbook of Nage-no-Kata is corrected and updated:

    "Kata textbook Nage no Kata 2nd 20150415.pdf"
    http://kodokanjudoinstitute.org/en/docs/Kata%20textbook%20Nage%20no%20Kata%202nd%2020150415.pdf
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    Re: Kôdôkan Jûdô kata books - English version free pdfs!

    Post by NBK on Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:39 am

    noboru wrote:Info from Kodokan website from today:
    15 Apr. 2015
    The Kodokan KATA Textbook of Nage-no-Kata is corrected and updated:

    "Kata textbook Nage no Kata 2nd 20150415.pdf"
    http://kodokanjudoinstitute.org/en/docs/Kata%20textbook%20Nage%20no%20Kata%202nd%2020150415.pdf

    That's the English version. We worked on the English translation of the old Japanese booklets. The photos were very difficult to follow, not clear at all, so they apparently put the booklets on hold while they produced new videos, then chose stills from those videos, and linked to the text translated near 10 years ago.

    NBK

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