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    I'm too old for this Sh*t

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    JudoStu

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    I'm too old for this Sh*t

    Post by JudoStu on Thu May 14, 2015 8:25 pm

    I did a class the other week where I was paired with a 21 year old 3rd dan International level Judoka for an entire class.
    “Great” you might think. Well for the entire class we did nothing but Tai-otoshi. First just Tai-Otoshi on its own and then set ups in to Tai-Otoshi and then counters and finally Tai-Otoshi in to Kesa Gatame and Tai-Otoshi in to Newaza randori.
    What I found difficult was that the pace was relentless. We literally went throw for throw for the whole class so I must have done in excess of 100 breakfalls. The ones where he followed me down in to Kesa gatame were particularly tough.
    At 42 these type of sessions take their toll on me so much so that I could barely stand up straight for 4 days after. I couldn’t make a fist for a week after and both my arms had giant bruises from my triceps down past my elbow to my forearms, not to mention my ribs and back being bruised.

    Am I being a wuss? Should the instructor have taken in to consideration my age? The reason I was paired with this guy was because I am the only other Black belt in the club (Instructors aside) and measure up relatively close with him (I’m 90kg and he’s around 99kg).


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    NBK

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    Re: I'm too old for this Sh*t

    Post by NBK on Fri May 15, 2015 12:53 am

    Physical age and condition aside..... how long did this go on?

    jkw

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    Re: I'm too old for this Sh*t

    Post by jkw on Fri May 15, 2015 1:44 am

    My opinion is that you are in charge of your health - at 42 you need your body for work and family commitments. I'll happily decline training partners if I think they're unsafe, or ask a training partner to modify their approach, or just take a breaking if I have safety concerns.

    Sometimes your instructor may not be aware there is an issue unless you raise it. Just because a 21 yo san-dan turns up, doesn't mean you have to be uke.
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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: I'm too old for this Sh*t

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Fri May 15, 2015 7:11 am

    JudoStu wrote:I did a class the other week where I was paired with a 21 year old 3rd dan International level Judoka for an entire class.
    “Great” you might think. Well for the entire class we did nothing but Tai-otoshi. First just Tai-Otoshi on its own and then set ups in to Tai-Otoshi and then counters and finally Tai-Otoshi in to Kesa Gatame and Tai-Otoshi in to Newaza randori.
    What I found difficult was that the pace was relentless. We literally went throw for throw for the whole class so I must have done in excess of 100 breakfalls. The ones where he followed me down in to Kesa gatame were particularly tough.
    At 42 these type of sessions take their toll on me so much so that I could barely stand up straight for 4 days after. I couldn’t make a fist for a week after and both my arms had giant bruises from my triceps down past my elbow to my forearms, not to mention my ribs and back being bruised.

    Am I being a wuss? Should the instructor have taken in to consideration my age? The reason I was paired with this guy was because I am the only other Black belt in the club (Instructors aside) and measure up relatively close with him (I’m 90kg and he’s around 99kg).

    Sounds like you got a taste of some serious training, there, Stu ! Is your club normally so intense, or was it a special occasion ?

    No, you are not being a wuss, it sounds to me like you are just not used to that level of intensity. It also sounds like you your tatami system is not too good. Is it on a suspended floor ?



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    Nic

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    Re: I'm too old for this Sh*t

    Post by Nic on Fri May 15, 2015 8:30 am

    I don't think you are being a wuss about the amount of pain the training session caused, but you were being wussy in that you didn't speak up at the time & declare that you couldn't tolerate that kind of intensity. It is the instructor's job to make sure the partner match ups are OK, but it's the individual participant's job to indicate their ability to tolerate the training.

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    JudoStu

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    Re: I'm too old for this Sh*t

    Post by JudoStu on Fri May 15, 2015 7:55 pm

    NBK wrote:Physical age and condition aside..... how long did this go on?

    An hour and a half


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    JudoStu

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    Re: I'm too old for this Sh*t

    Post by JudoStu on Fri May 15, 2015 7:57 pm

    jkw wrote:My opinion is that you are in charge of your health - at 42 you need your body for work and family commitments. I'll happily decline training partners if I think they're unsafe, or ask a training partner to modify their approach, or just take a breaking if I have safety concerns.

    Sometimes your instructor may not be aware there is an issue unless you raise it. Just because a 21 yo san-dan turns up, doesn't mean you have to be uke.

    The club is small and we only have a few seniors so I was the only person he could have been paired with.


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    JudoStu

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    Re: I'm too old for this Sh*t

    Post by JudoStu on Fri May 15, 2015 8:03 pm

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    JudoStu wrote:I did a class the other week where I was paired with a 21 year old 3rd dan International level Judoka for an entire class.
    “Great” you might think. Well for the entire class we did nothing but Tai-otoshi. First just Tai-Otoshi on its own and then set ups in to Tai-Otoshi and then counters and finally Tai-Otoshi in to Kesa Gatame and Tai-Otoshi in to Newaza randori.
    What I found difficult was that the pace was relentless. We literally went throw for throw for the whole class so I must have done in excess of 100 breakfalls. The ones where he followed me down in to Kesa gatame were particularly tough.
    At 42 these type of sessions take their toll on me so much so that I could barely stand up straight for 4 days after. I couldn’t make a fist for a week after and both my arms had giant bruises from my triceps down past my elbow to my forearms, not to mention my ribs and back being bruised.

    Am I being a wuss? Should the instructor have taken in to consideration my age? The reason I was paired with this guy was because I am the only other Black belt in the club (Instructors aside) and measure up relatively close with him (I’m 90kg and he’s around 99kg).

    Sounds like you got a taste of some serious training, there, Stu ! Is your club normally so intense, or was it a special occasion ?

    No, you are not being a wuss, it sounds to me like you are just not used to that level of intensity. It also sounds like you your tatami system is not too good. Is it on a suspended floor ?


    Yeah basically the club has two coaches, one of whom is fairly new to coaching in this country (UK). He has previously taught in Japan having learnt Judo over there but only recently attained his level 2 coaching badges from the BJA.
    So this new instructor is a bit old school Japanese in his approach to training. The thing is I agree with the idea of really drilling one throw constantly for the whole class but I need the crash mats for this. The coach doesn't agree with crash mats as he thinks they hinder breakfalling.

    In asnwer to your question, the mats are not on a suspended floor they are on a solid concrete floor and therefore the falls are hard.


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    JudoStu

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    Re: I'm too old for this Sh*t

    Post by JudoStu on Fri May 15, 2015 8:07 pm

    Nic wrote:I don't think you are being a wuss about the amount of pain the training session caused, but you were being wussy in that you didn't speak up at the time & declare that you couldn't tolerate that kind of intensity.  It is the instructor's job to make sure the partner match ups are OK, but it's the individual participant's job to indicate their ability to tolerate the training.


    I admit that I take some blame for this as I was trying to prove to this young guy that I could hang with him. to be fair he probably doesn't realise how old I am as (and i'm not boasting here) I frequently get told I look early 30's.

    When I did try and slow the pace down a little the coach told us to speed up.


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    jkw

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    Re: I'm too old for this Sh*t

    Post by jkw on Sat May 16, 2015 10:00 am

    JudoStu wrote:
    jkw wrote:My opinion is that you are in charge of your health - at 42 you need your body for work and family commitments. I'll happily decline training partners if I think they're unsafe, or ask a training partner to modify their approach, or just take a breaking if I have safety concerns.

    Sometimes your instructor may not be aware there is an issue unless you raise it. Just because a 21 yo san-dan turns up, doesn't mean you have to be uke.

    The club is small and we only have a few seniors so I was the only person he could have been paired with.

    I think you missed my point - it's up to you to determine what is a safe level of training for yourself. The 21 yo should/will have realistic expectations of the type of training he can have at your dojo. You could practice uchi-Komi only etc...

    That many hard falls on a concrete floor is bad news.
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    Nic

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    Re: I'm too old for this Sh*t

    Post by Nic on Wed May 20, 2015 3:08 am

    Will you speak up next time Stu? Do you feel you benefitted from the training that night as much as your partner did? Do you think the coach is concerned with your welfare and whether or not you are able to train?
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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: I'm too old for this Sh*t

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Wed May 20, 2015 4:35 am

    JudoStu wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    JudoStu wrote:I did a class the other week where I was paired with a 21 year old 3rd dan International level Judoka for an entire class.
    “Great” you might think. Well for the entire class we did nothing but Tai-otoshi. First just Tai-Otoshi on its own and then set ups in to Tai-Otoshi and then counters and finally Tai-Otoshi in to Kesa Gatame and Tai-Otoshi in to Newaza randori.
    What I found difficult was that the pace was relentless. We literally went throw for throw for the whole class so I must have done in excess of 100 breakfalls. The ones where he followed me down in to Kesa gatame were particularly tough.
    At 42 these type of sessions take their toll on me so much so that I could barely stand up straight for 4 days after. I couldn’t make a fist for a week after and both my arms had giant bruises from my triceps down past my elbow to my forearms, not to mention my ribs and back being bruised.

    Am I being a wuss? Should the instructor have taken in to consideration my age? The reason I was paired with this guy was because I am the only other Black belt in the club (Instructors aside) and measure up relatively close with him (I’m 90kg and he’s around 99kg).

    Sounds like you got a taste of some serious training, there, Stu ! Is your club normally so intense, or was it a special occasion ?

    No, you are not being a wuss, it sounds to me like you are just not used to that level of intensity. It also sounds like you your tatami system is not too good. Is it on a suspended floor ?


    Yeah basically the club has two coaches, one of whom is fairly new to coaching in this country (UK). He has previously taught in Japan having learnt Judo over there but only recently attained his level 2 coaching badges from the BJA.
    So this new instructor is a bit old school Japanese in his approach to training. The thing is I agree with the idea of really drilling one throw constantly for the whole class but I need the crash mats for this. The coach doesn't agree with crash mats as he thinks they hinder breakfalling.

    In answer to your question, the mats are not on a suspended floor they are on a solid concrete floor and therefore the falls are hard.

    OK, from a safety point of view that's inappropriate...tatami on solid concrete, unless they are the type of tatami designed to be used that way. Even then, it's not ideal. So, yeah, crash pads, but those do somewhat limit movement options.

    I'd say that your elite level guy shouldn't expect to get that sort of training at your type of club. He should view it more as a "rest" sort of day, to maybe work on ne waza more, anything but full speed throwing with that tatami set-up. Plus, it's being a bit of an ass on his part, whatever the instructor (who was a bit of an ass as well IMO), for a guy like that to be powering into a middle aged club level judoka like that for an hour and a half.

    So, you are not a wuss, but a victim of bad coaching and a training partner who was being pretty rude.


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    Jihef

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    Re: I'm too old for this Sh*t

    Post by Jihef on Wed May 27, 2015 9:25 pm

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:I'd say that your elite level guy shouldn't expect to get that sort of training at your type of club. He should view it more as a "rest" sort of day, to maybe work on ne waza more, anything but full speed throwing with that tatami set-up. Plus, it's being a bit of an ass on his part, whatever the instructor (who was a bit of an ass as well IMO), for a guy like that to be powering into a middle aged club level judoka like that for an hour and a half.

    So, you are not a wuss, but a victim of bad coaching and a training partner who was being pretty rude.
    +1.
    Elite level visitor should've taken it a bit easier than his usual killer pace.

    And YOUR teacher shouldn't have tried to prove anything to the visitor… at your expense. Rolling Eyes


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