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    lperro

    Posts : 23
    Join date : 2013-09-17
    Location : italy

    feldenkrais ukemi

    Post by lperro on Thu May 28, 2015 9:23 pm

    hi everybody..
    while i was reading a moshe feldenkrais's judo book ("Judo. The Art of defence and attack"), i've found an illustration of zenpo ukemi that is pretty strange to me.

    here it is:

    http://i19.servimg.com/u/f19/19/23/58/42/ukemi11.jpg

    and here the feldenkrais's related instructions on how to do that:
    "bend your left leg as shown in Fig. 22, leaving the left knee pinned to the ground"

    this description of ukemi sounds very strange to me and possibly dangerous for the knee too (?!)

    what i know to be a "proper" zenpo ukemi has, more or less, this form:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztmcgEuzo9Y


    I know that Feldenkrais has been a student of Jigoro Kano and some of the best Judo istructors of his time (Kawaishi, Koizumi etc.), so it would be at least odd to find a pretty basic waza, like ukemi, done "wrong" here.

    so... what am i missing?

    thanks in advance and cheers from italy,
    Luca
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    Ben Reinhardt

    Posts : 794
    Join date : 2012-12-28
    Location : Bonners Ferry, Idaho, USA

    Re: feldenkrais ukemi

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Fri May 29, 2015 7:41 am

    I've seen that before in that book.

    It's not correct for sure as a landing position for a normal zempo kaiten. It looks like some sort of transitional position to standing up, maybe. Perhaps the raised hand is used to protect the face from a blow ?



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    Richard Riehle

    Posts : 79
    Join date : 2013-06-22
    Location : California

    Re: feldenkrais ukemi

    Post by Richard Riehle on Fri May 29, 2015 9:31 am

    lperro wrote:hi everybody..
    while i was reading a moshe feldenkrais's judo book ("Judo. The Art of defence and attack"), i've found an illustration of zenpo ukemi that is pretty strange to me.

    here it is:

    http://i19.servimg.com/u/f19/19/23/58/42/ukemi11.jpg

    and here the feldenkrais's related instructions on how to do that:
    "bend your left leg as shown in Fig. 22, leaving the left knee pinned to the ground"

    this description of ukemi sounds very strange to me and possibly dangerous for the knee too (?!)

    what i know to be a "proper" zenpo ukemi has, more or less, this form:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztmcgEuzo9Y


    I know that Feldenkrais has been a student of Jigoro Kano and some of the best Judo istructors of his time (Kawaishi, Koizumi etc.), so it would be at least odd to find a pretty basic waza, like ukemi, done "wrong" here.

    so... what am i missing?

    thanks in advance and cheers from italy,
    Luca

    You are not missing anything. The position shown is from the early ju-jutsu (aka, jiu-jitsu) forms. In fact, in many other martial arts, the leg is tucked under to make it easier to roll into a standing position. When I first began Judo in the 1950's, many instructors were teaching this form of leg position.

    Eventually, every Judo dojo switched over the the leg position we use today. When Feldenkrais was learning the European style of Judo in the 1930's, this leg position was quite common.

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    NBK

    Posts : 1193
    Join date : 2013-01-10
    Location : Tokyo, Japan

    Re: feldenkrais ukemi

    Post by NBK on Fri May 29, 2015 6:42 pm

    lperro wrote:hi everybody..
    while i was reading a moshe feldenkrais's judo book ("Judo. The Art of defence and attack"), i've found an illustration of zenpo ukemi that is pretty strange to me.

    here it is:

    http://i19.servimg.com/u/f19/19/23/58/42/ukemi11.jpg

    and here the feldenkrais's related instructions on how to do that:
    "bend your left leg as shown in Fig. 22, leaving the left knee pinned to the ground"

    this description of ukemi sounds very strange to me and possibly dangerous for the knee too (?!)

    what i know to be a "proper" zenpo ukemi has, more or less, this form:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztmcgEuzo9Y


    I know that Feldenkrais has been a student of Jigoro Kano and some of the best Judo istructors of his time (Kawaishi, Koizumi etc.), so it would be at least odd to find a pretty basic waza, like ukemi, done "wrong" here.

    so... what am i missing?

    thanks in advance and cheers from italy,
    Luca
    The bent leg is most useful for standing to face tori - i.e., opposite the direction of the throw. Other than that, there's not much point.

    The Youtube showing the straight bottom leg shows the older style, too. Optimal rolls now end with feet much more in shizentai, a nature position, facing more directly to the front. It's much easier on the bottom leg's knee and the top of your foot.

    NBK

    DougNZ

    Posts : 405
    Join date : 2013-01-28

    Re: feldenkrais ukemi

    Post by DougNZ on Sat May 30, 2015 12:30 am

    If that figure is of a 'moment in time' then it is very similar to the way I was taught in jujutsu, rolling over the left shin and standing up, swivelling anti-clockwise to face whoever pushed us from behind. Side breakfall was also along much the same lines with the right leg more bent but still over the left, crossed roughly just above the ankles. The left knee did not touch the ground in this instance and the right ball of the foot acted as a shock absorber, impacting fractionally after the left arm slapped. This form of side breakfall was particularly important in wide, circular takedowns where not using the right foot would result in momentum taking us over onto our stomach. Ending up face down is to be avoided in jujutsu!

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