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    Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

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    NBK

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    Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by NBK on Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:59 am

    I was scanning the contents of an early Taisho era (mid-1910's) Jûdô magazine, and spotted a curious article.

    In discussing whether a new student, 45 year old (presumably man) could learn judo, the gist of the article was that if in reasonable physical condition then he could learn judo through Jû no Kata, perhaps other kata. Randori and shiai were for 20- and 30-year olds, it opines.

    This would explain the number of judo instruction books I have from the 1920s and 1930s that start with long explanations of JNK, illustrated by a couple of middle-aged men, one balding, one mustachioed.

    I wonder what Kanô shihan would think of today's shiai, with septuagenarians and even older competitors!

    NBK
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    Y-Chromosome

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    Location : The Great White North

    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by Y-Chromosome on Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:34 am

    Been trying to convince my 70+ sensei, with two false hips that JNK might be a better option than Kime no for his next grading. He generally grunts something about JNK being "weird" and rebuffs attempts to discuss it further.
    Still a macho-man after all these years. Some attitudes die hard.

    All that said, late-life health and overall life-expectancy are probably quite different today than they were in 1920. Medical advances and social change too. When was the first knee or hip replacement?
    When was it first copnsidered accpetable for women to compete in shiai?
    One has to make allowances for where and when Kano was writing.
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    NBK

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by NBK on Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:38 pm

    Wait til he stands and bows a few dozen times for Kime no Kata - it gets most folks' attention, if not the attention for his knees.

    The All Japan Judo Federation just changed the 4th dan kata requirement from advanced Katame no Kata to Ju no Kata for everyone - it's kind of funny to watch guys that have never done it trying to figure it out.

    In fact, if I didn't have to learn it someday myself, I'd think it was hilarious..... Rolling Eyes

    Mr_Michael_or_Mike

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by Mr_Michael_or_Mike on Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:35 am

    I started Judo at 41 and, quit at 47. It was a new club and, I started out with teens. I came to the conclusion that I never became adapt and, relaxed enough at my ukemi. I've heard that adults in Japan often have to practice the full range of ukemi skills before they can do anything else. I think I needed a dedicated ukemi class.
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    Steve Leadbeater

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    Location : Sydney Australia

    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by Steve Leadbeater on Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:17 pm

    Mr Michael or Mike,

    Tell us what area you are in......I'm certain someone here would be prepared to assist you.

    hobit

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by hobit on Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:47 pm

    I did a Ju No Kata course, but need to find a partner to continue the practise. It was good fun see a completely different side of judo to what I'm learning in class. (currently starting work on my 3rd Kyu). You can say it's odd but it's nice to practise something where you don't just get thrown.

    Mr_Michael_or_Mike

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by Mr_Michael_or_Mike on Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:41 pm

    I'm still in contact with my old Sensei. I told him. The class is full of teens and, I would need people my size and, age to train with.

    Richard Riehle

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by Richard Riehle on Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:45 am

    NBK wrote:I was scanning the contents of an early Taisho era (mid-1910's) Jûdô magazine, and spotted a curious article.

    In discussing whether a new student, 45 year old (presumably man) could learn judo, the gist of the article was that if in reasonable physical condition then he could learn judo through Jû no Kata, perhaps other kata.  Randori and shiai were for 20- and 30-year olds, it opines.

    This would explain the number of judo instruction books I have from the 1920s and 1930s that start with long explanations of JNK, illustrated by a couple of middle-aged men, one balding, one mustachioed.  

    I wonder what Kanô shihan would think of today's shiai, with septuagenarians and even older competitors!  

    NBK

    Just returned from my annual trip to the Kodokan. I am 79.5 years old and still doing standard Judo. While I am slowed down a bit from when I was 70 (my last competition was in 2009), I am still enjoying my time on the tatami, moving around, occasionally executing a waza, sometimes taking a fall. I expect to be slowing down even more after I turn 80, but hope to still be able to do some standard Judo.
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    Udon

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by Udon on Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:47 pm

    My hats' off to you ! That is wonderful. Hope you have many years of judo ahead.
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    afja_lm139

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by afja_lm139 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:32 am

    Ha, will join you at 80 in 5 years. Many of my freinds are there now and comlain about being old. Well, I feel it as well. More power to you; I have too much yard work to do.
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    NittyRanks

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by NittyRanks on Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:50 am

    I started at 32 years old in 2000. I was off for some years in-between. I think the difference is what injuries you have coming in, especially at an older age. Some people come from other Martial Arts backgrounds, or contact sports. Because of the muscle-memory you need, the toll it takes on your body, and the fortitude to stay in Judo it’s better to start early in life. I don’t know many people, even in their 30’s that come to Judo. It happens but I still don’t see many of those people staying. It takes a special person.

    Gus

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by Gus on Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:16 pm

    Richard Riehle wrote:
    NBK wrote:I was scanning the contents of an early Taisho era (mid-1910's) Jûdô magazine, and spotted a curious article.

    In discussing whether a new student, 45 year old (presumably man) could learn judo, the gist of the article was that if in reasonable physical condition then he could learn judo through Jû no Kata, perhaps other kata.  Randori and shiai were for 20- and 30-year olds, it opines.

    This would explain the number of judo instruction books I have from the 1920s and 1930s that start with long explanations of JNK, illustrated by a couple of middle-aged men, one balding, one mustachioed.  

    I wonder what Kanô shihan would think of today's shiai, with septuagenarians and even older competitors!  

    NBK

    Just returned from my annual trip to the Kodokan.   I am 79.5 years old and still doing standard Judo.   While I am slowed down a bit from when I was 70 (my last competition was in 2009), I am still enjoying my time on the tatami, moving around, occasionally executing a waza, sometimes taking a fall.   I expect to be slowing down even more after I turn 80, but hope to still be able to do some standard Judo.

    Ha ! Spring chicken - there's some vid online of a 90 year old masters Judo competion but I couldnt find it - but check this guy out :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX9h5PVNGaY

    Hope you had a great Christmas Richard Smile
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    BillC

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by BillC on Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:27 am

    Ha ! Spring chicken - there's some vid online of a 90 year old masters Judo competion but I couldnt find it -

    found it ... and there's more ... he's a feisty old guy.

    The thing that surprises me about the Kodokan, besides its nearly complete accesibility to average judoka ... are the LARGE number of guys and gals in their 80s and 90s who still get out there week after week.


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    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling
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    NBK

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by NBK on Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:26 pm

    Mr_Michael_or_Mike wrote:I started Judo at 41 and, quit at 47. It was a new club and, I started out with teens. I came to the conclusion that I never became adapt and, relaxed enough at my ukemi. I've heard that adults in Japan often have to practice the full range of ukemi skills before they can do anything else. I think I needed a dedicated ukemi class.
    I have come to believe that technical or mental inability to take ukemi is a serious problem for many older beginners.  If you're afraid to take ukemi, most people will do anything to avoid falling, and as a result most never get very skillful.  

    We drill newcomers pretty hard in ukemi, adult or juniors, and have remedial and corrective instruction, too. And make corrections on the spot.
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    Jonesy

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by Jonesy on Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:30 pm

    NBK wrote:
    The All Japan Judo Federation just changed the 4th dan kata requirement from advanced Katame no Kata to Ju no Kata for everyone - it's kind of funny to watch guys that have never done it trying to figure it out.
    Ju-no-kata is fun. Lots of misconceptions that it is a females' kata. I attended a great seminar on this last year - an Olympian friend of mine recently promoted to 7th dan was also there.

    Are the AJJF dan requirements the same as the Kodokan's?
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    NBK

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by NBK on Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:15 am

    Jonesy wrote:
    NBK wrote:
    The All Japan Judo Federation just changed the 4th dan kata requirement from advanced Katame no Kata to Ju no Kata for everyone - it's kind of funny to watch guys that have never done it trying to figure it out.
    Ju-no-kata is fun.  Lots of misconceptions that it is a females' kata.  I attended a great seminar on this last year - an Olympian friend of mine recently promoted to 7th dan was also there.

    Are the AJJF dan requirements the same as the Kodokan's?
    Yes, all matched up.
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    noboru

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by noboru on Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:24 pm

    Macumura sensei (in some prevoius posts) is 90 years old? Amazing.

    SHOCHU GEIKO 2014 avec MATSUMURA Sensei
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUICaENlLD8


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    NBK

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by NBK on Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:09 am

    I took some folks to the Dai Dojo the other day to see a competition and Matsumura sensei was in the 8f bleachers, sizing everyone up with a keen eye......
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    Kaji

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by Kaji on Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:21 pm

    NBK wrote:In discussing whether a new student, 45 year old (presumably man) could learn judo, the gist of the article was that if in reasonable physical condition then he could learn judo through Jû no Kata, perhaps other kata.  Randori and shiai were for 20- and 30-year olds, it opines.
    This is not surprising when compared to many other disciplines, martial or not. What I'm grateful for is that Judo has enough variety in modes of practice to cater for a wide range of people and ages.

    Other than Judo I also do a classic, hard form of Taijiquan. We use our bodies to muck around with air pressure and blood pressure. It is not exactly safe for someone whose health condition may place them at risk of bursting a blood vessel in the brain. For those people, they can still practise the stuff where they manipulate only the muscles, bones, tendons, etc., just not the full package.

    And with a non-martial discipline, in fact a predominantly mental and spiritual one - Buddhism - in some schools there are differences between what is recommended for daily practice for elderly practitioners than younger ones. Without throwing in too many jargons, an example would be the suggestion that older Buddhists can focus on the practice known as the contemplation and remembrance of a buddha (and long for a pure land), rather than practices such as a progressive path in analytically meditating on the many Buddhist principles (to seek enlightenment immediately).
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    NBK

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by NBK on Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:57 am

    Kaji wrote:...
    Other than Judo I also do a classic, hard form of Taijiquan. We use our bodies to muck around with air pressure and blood pressure. It is not exactly safe for someone whose health condition may place them at risk of bursting a blood vessel in the brain. For those people, they can still practise the stuff where they manipulate only the muscles, bones, tendons, etc., just not the full package.

    And with a non-martial discipline, in fact a predominantly mental and spiritual one - Buddhism - in some schools there are differences between what is recommended for daily practice for elderly practitioners than younger ones. Without throwing in too many jargons, an example would be the suggestion that older Buddhists can focus on the practice known as the contemplation and remembrance of a buddha (and long for a pure land), rather than practices such as a progressive path in analytically meditating on the many Buddhist principles (to seek enlightenment immediately).

    Yes, here at the Evelyn Woodhead Speed Reading Course, we link your body control practice with safe, calming communication with the Others via your special keyboard and special biometric feedback principles to keep you on the calm and level when you deal with people like Billc:



    Happy New Year, Kaji!  Please ignore the aside, and please keep it up, I like the thread.

    NBK

    thomaschippendale

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    Re: Now I understand the problem - I'm too old

    Post by thomaschippendale on Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:38 pm

    Nice Information!!! In my opinion, if your body will allow then age is not mandatory. Some days ago I have started judo training. Before starting judo, I read books which I brought from WKC Martial Arts Supplies. So it encourages me too to prepare for judo training.

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