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    BJJ in the Olympics

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    BJJ in the Olympics

    Post by Guest on Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:31 am

    Now that Rio 2016 games is just a year away (obviously), I like to throw this question to see what would be the reaction of the Judo world:

    Does Brazilian Jiu-jitsu have what it takes to be an Olympic Sport?

    Put your comments, disagreements, so on, whatever!!
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    Jacob3

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    Re: BJJ in the Olympics

    Post by Jacob3 on Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:02 am

    My first and only comment would be, that this question does not belong here, but in the BJJ section Cool

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    Re: BJJ in the Olympics

    Post by Guest on Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:43 am

    @ Jacob3 - I'm fully aware of that. But I placed this topic on the discussion board instead of the MMA and bjj board b/c this more than just a bjj question. This is a topic that's been raised for quite some time.

    Suppose if BJJ does get an Olympic spot, how does that affect Judo in the Olympics?
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    finarashi

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    Re: BJJ in the Olympics

    Post by finarashi on Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:50 am

    1. You need an international organization that is organizing world championships
    2. You need equal opportunity i.e. same amount of female categories than male
    3. You need plenty of countries medaling i.e. just a few dominating doesn't do it
    4. You need majority of NOC to recognized BJJ as sport
    5. You need majority of OC members to to be willing to vote some sport out. i.e. number of sports in summer olympics is fixed
    6. You need that sport to be one that has lots of medals / categories i.e. number of medals can not increase
    7. You need that sport to have lots of athletes participating i.e. number of athletes can not increase

    You look at points 1-7 and one notes, ain't gonna happen.

    IMHO your question is trolling


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    Y-Chromosome

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    Re: BJJ in the Olympics

    Post by Y-Chromosome on Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:37 am

    A number of things would have to happen before this could ever be a reality. First there would need to be a single strong centralised International Federation formed with broad participation of National governing bodies from across the world including all five continents. That Federation would need to seek recognition as an IF and meet certain criteria, including:
    "The statutes, practice and activities of the IFs within the Olympic Movement must be in
    conformity with the Olympic Charter, including the adoption and implementation of the
    World Anti-Doping Code. Subject to the foregoing, each IF maintains its independence and
    autonomy in the administration of its sport."

    Next it would need to convince the IOC and a host country to include it in the programme of a specific Olympic games. The IOC is presently imposing strict limits on the number of Sports, events and athletes to keep the size and cost of the games manageable and some would argue they are laready betyond manageable. Given the fact that Wrestling was nearly cut and that the IJF seems to live in constant fear of being cut, I wouldn't give additional compative sports great chances.
    Each weight class would be considered an event, and if you wanted to inlcude men and women that adds a lot of events which then need a venue. Possibly the same venue as wrestling, but that stretches the schedule for that venue.
    To compare a similar case, SAMBO tried to get into the Olympics by using the existing Wrestling organization FILA as their IF and promoting SAMBO as another set of events within FILAs programme. (FILA already did Freestyle and Greco Roman Wrestling, and now men's and women's wrestling). That effort failed and SAMBO never even got close to an Olympic spot due to its failure to generate enough participation outside of Eastern Europe. Karate and Wushu have been "recognized" by the IOC for some time, but neither has succesfully managed to be included in a games.
    So I would say BJJ has an uphill battle if it ever wants to be in the Olympics.
    All that said, I for one wouldn't mind, but if the current trend of capping participation holds there would be pressure to drop something. Maybe judo, maybe Greco-Roman wrestling, maybe something else. It would be interesting to see maybe another event set be organised within the IJF. Maybe call it "Kosen style" Judo or "Freestyle" Judo, with more lattitude permitted to grab the legs, more time permitted on the ground and maybe leg locks permitted. Sadly there is also an uphill battle to be fought for this. This time within the IJF. Moreover that wouldn't necessarily attract a lot of BJJers, who as I understand it, are allergic to the ippon throw. Whatever rule changes you made, you can't really call it judo without the ippon throw.
    Look, BJJ and Judo are close technical cousins but have diverged culturally and technically for a variety of reasons. I'm not particularly happy with the present rules of either, but I'll watch both as the opportunity arises and enjoy a good match either way.
    The big questions revolve around politics and organization and in that regard Judo has the drop on the BJJ by a good 50 years. That's a lot of catching up to do in an environment where the IJF is loathe to add a single event, let alone 7 weight classes each for two genders.

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    Re: BJJ in the Olympics

    Post by Guest on Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:52 am

    @ firanashi: "IMHO your question is trolling"

    - NEVER, EVER, ACCUSE ME OF TROLLING!! I am new to this site and for once I never trolled!! That is unfair and total bias! If you don't like what I put here on the discussion board, you shouldn't have answered it! I'm not interested to pessimistic ppl. such as yourself to come acting like you know everything!

    - I appreciate that you gave your points 1 to 7. But with regards to your ending sentence, that's not even sarcasm, its rather insulting and a lie IMHO Evil or Very Mad


    Last edited by The Judo Researcher on Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:30 am; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: BJJ in the Olympics

    Post by Guest on Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:09 am

    Thank you Y-chromosome for the insight.

    I did stumble this issue for around 2-3 years and the last report was that BJJ failed to make it in the final cut as an Olympic sport. A story in mmafighting.com back in September of 2012 circulated around this report about the failure of BJJ's bid in the Olympics. It was told that before BJJ were to get in, Pankration or Submission Grappling/ADCC was to be a vehicle to push the IOC in making BJJ as an Olympic sport. Unfortunately, I cannot put the link of that site b/c this forum placed restrictions on me for 7 days (since I'm a newbie here). I can't copy/paste the whole web article because that can be a copyright issue. The title of the article is "Mat 0: The Story of How the Olympics Passed Jiu-Jitsu By"
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    finarashi

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    Re: BJJ in the Olympics

    Post by finarashi on Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:25 am

    Jacob3 wrote:My first and only comment would be, that this question does not belong here, but in the BJJ section Cool


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    davidn

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    Re: BJJ in the Olympics

    Post by davidn on Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:29 am

    Never happen. Besides the organizational obstacles, there's not enough high level BJJists spread throughout the world. And it doesn't have a huge spectator following. People going to a BJJ event either practice BJJ or know somebody competing.

    It would take some drastic changes over a long period of time.

    Carlos Graña

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    Re: BJJ in the Olympics

    Post by Carlos Graña on Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:58 am

    I find it very difficult that BJJ can become an Olympic Sport. Mainly, because the Worlds,Mundials usually are organized by club teams such Alliance, Gracie Barra, GFT, Checkmat, etc. There isn't enough country involvement. Can you imagine a BJJ event where Brazil can only be allowed to send only one representive of their weight category? With all the Bjj politics drama it would be very difficult or organize a qualifier. Judo has a more country participation and doesn't have close outs, where players from the same team don't face each other. The coach decides who passes to the next round, they just bow out.
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    Y-Chromosome

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    Re: BJJ in the Olympics

    Post by Y-Chromosome on Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:23 am

    The Judo Researcher wrote:Thank you Y-chromosome for the insight.

    I did stumble this issue for around 2-3 years and the last report was that BJJ failed to make it in the final cut as an Olympic sport. A story in mmafighting.com back in September of 2012 circulated around this report about the failure of BJJ's bid in the Olympics. It was told that before BJJ were to get in, Pankration or Submission Grappling/ADCC was to be a vehicle to push the IOC in making BJJ as an Olympic sport. Unfortunately, I cannot put the link of that site b/c this forum placed restrictions on me for 7 days (since I'm a newbie here). I can't copy/paste the whole web article because that can be a copyright issue. The title of the article is "Mat 0: The Story of How the Olympics Passed Jiu-Jitsu By"

    So here you go: http://www.mmafighting.com/2012/9/8/3301930/mat-0-the-story-of-how-the-olympics-passed-jiu-jitsu-by

    It looks like jui jitsu (Gawd I HATE that spelling) or BJJ as most of us know it, travelled a similar abortive route with FILA that Sambo had earlier.  Ultimately leaders within the BJJ community, like the Gracie family, would need to be the ones to make the necessary moves to meet Olympic criteria (form an appropriate IF, grow the sport internationally, implement drug testing etc.) but that doesn't seem to be on their priority list as much as keeping their names in the press and keeping their own (and no one else's) schools full.

    The IJF has NO insterest in helping BJJ in any way let alone into the Olympics.  FILA doesn't sound like it has the right people or the right formula.  They would be best off doing it on their own, but I give them a snowball's chance considering how hard it was to even get women's wrestling into the Olympics let alone the fact that Karate and Wushu are still waiting in the wings.  I like Jimmy Pedro's idea of a Ne Waza oriented judo division, but I don't give that much chance of happening with the current heirarchy of the IJF who seem to think that only Seoi Nage and Uchi Mata are "real judo".  Besides, it would mean trying to convince the IOC and a potential host city to add umpteen events to the Olympic program which is swimming against the current at the moment.

    To be honest I think MMA stands a better chance in the long run, if the UFC chooses to provide the necessary leadership and underwriting to form a proper Amateur Association.  Especially if MMA continues to eat away at Pro-Boxing in terms of specator interest and that this translates into a growing grass-roots amateur movement.  I could see a day when MMA could supplant boxing as a favored amateur sport.  That is an uphill battle too, but one that is doable considering that the UFC intends to do exactly that on the professional side.

    Look BJJ is as fine an activity as any other combative sport already on the Olympic program, but the numbers don't add up at present.  Who knows though.  Things change and stranger things have certainly happened in the wolrd of sport.


    Last edited by Y-Chromosome on Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:32 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : grammar)

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