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    Kani basami

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    Y-Chromosome

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    Kani basami

    Post by Y-Chromosome on Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:47 am

    OK so as best I can determine the kanji for this waza is 蟹挟.

    A bit baffling when you break it down. We always learned this was the "scissors throw" but the first kanji gives crab (as in sea creature) and the second something like clip or clamp?

    What is the actual etymology behind this name? Does it refers to the crab's pincers? A special pair of scissors used to cut up crab?

    Some insight would be appreciated.

    (Now I'm hungry for steamed crab in garlic butter... shouldn't do this when supper is overdue...)

    justcurious

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    Re: Kani basami

    Post by justcurious on Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:05 pm

    I cannot comment on the kanji, but have always understood the waza to translate as "lobster claw".
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    BillC

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    Re: Kani basami

    Post by BillC on Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:33 pm

    http://www.rikai.com/perl/Home.pl


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    Emanuele2

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    Re: Kani basami

    Post by Emanuele2 on Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:20 pm

    In an Italian judo book it is translated as: "lobster pinch".
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    Y-Chromosome

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    Re: Kani basami

    Post by Y-Chromosome on Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:00 pm

    OKAY, I'm pretty confident that it's crab and not lobster.
    I do appreciate the input but dealing with non-Japanese speakers and machine translation is what's landed me in this muddle in the first place.

    Is it referring to the crab's claw? Is it a pinching action the crab makes?
    I'm still confused here.
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    NBK

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    Re: Kani basami

    Post by NBK on Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:20 pm

    ’Kani basami' means 'crab pinch', pure and simple.
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    Y-Chromosome

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    Re: Kani basami

    Post by Y-Chromosome on Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:23 am

    So is this a koryu technique?
    Seems an odd choice for a name when something like "leg scissors" or "double leg reap" might have been more descriptive.

    In almost every case where there is some sort of metaphor involved in judo waza names, it has led to some difficulty in coming up with an apt translation. (Requires cultural as well as literal translation.)

    How common is crab as a dish in Japan? Are the pinching claws of live crab an everyday occurrence in Japanese kitchens?

    Am I right then in assuming that the waza name refers to the way a crabs claw closing resembles the scissoring action of tori's legs?

    Why am I having so much trouble describing one metaphor without turning to another?
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    NBK

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    Re: Kani basami

    Post by NBK on Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:31 am

    Y-Chromosome wrote:....Why am I having so much trouble describing one metaphor without turning to another?

    I expect one could blame whatever you're imbibing. Very Happy
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    Y-Chromosome

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    Re: Kani basami

    Post by Y-Chromosome on Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:46 pm

    Hey, A low blow, Dirty pool, or is it not cricket, not kosher?
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    BillC

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    Re: Kani basami

    Post by BillC on Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:46 pm

    Lobsters are far more common in Japan ... skip to 0:33

    And yes, Mr. Natural ... two pints of Stella at lunch to celebrate making weight for tomorrow's event ... celebratory champagne followed by a really nice Napa cabernet.


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    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling

    davidn

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    Re: Kani basami

    Post by davidn on Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:52 am

    Kani is a crab. Basami can either mean scissors or a pinching/sandwiching motion, depending on the kanji involved (they are similar but not exact), this kanji describes the pinching/sandwiching motion. I've always heard it called flying scissors, which baffled me because crabs don't fly and none of the characters hint at that... but now I find out that the other character isn't for scissors! Hey, at least it's a homonym!

    (NOTE: I wouldn't know either character if they came up and bit me, but my partner here is a native speaker)
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    Y-Chromosome

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    Re: Kani basami

    Post by Y-Chromosome on Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:47 am

    davidn wrote:Kani is a crab.  Basami can either mean scissors or a pinching/sandwiching motion, depending on the kanji involved (they are similar but not exact), this kanji describes the pinching/sandwiching motion.  I've always heard it called flying scissors, which baffled me because crabs don't fly and none of the characters hint at that...  but now I find out that the other character isn't for scissors!  Hey, at least it's a homonym!
    (NOTE: I wouldn't know either character if they came up and bit me, but my partner here is a native speaker)

    Thanks, and thanks to your partner.
    I am struggling to add to my miniscule amount of Japanese.  One thing I am finding out is that a lot of what Western Judoka think they know is not quite right.

    Do try and avoid getting bitten by kanji.  I'm told it can be painful.  Very Happy
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    NBK

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    Re: Kani basami

    Post by NBK on Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:55 pm

    Y-Chromosome wrote:
    davidn wrote:Kani is a crab.  Basami can either mean scissors or a pinching/sandwiching motion, depending on the kanji involved (they are similar but not exact), this kanji describes the pinching/sandwiching motion.  I've always heard it called flying scissors, which baffled me because crabs don't fly and none of the characters hint at that...  but now I find out that the other character isn't for scissors!  Hey, at least it's a homonym!
    (NOTE: I wouldn't know either character if they came up and bit me, but my partner here is a native speaker)

    Thanks, and thanks to your partner.
    I am struggling to add to my miniscule amount of Japanese.  One thing I am finding out is that a lot of what Western Judoka think they know is not quite right.

    Do try and avoid getting bitten by kanji.  I'm told it can be painful.  Very Happy
    It's not only Western judoka, but also Japanese that get things wrong.

    And a good portion of judo history has been swept under the rug. Including three kata that were disappeared.

    johan smits

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    Re: Kani basami

    Post by johan smits on Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:00 pm

    What were those kata again?
    'Crab sandwich' as in sandwiched... ah well. clown

    Happy landings
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    Jihef

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    Re: Kani basami

    Post by Jihef on Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:59 am

    Emanuele2 wrote:In an Italian judo book it is translated as: "lobster pinch".
    Which evokes the first european Best-Seller of judo manuals, Kawaishi Mikinosuke's “Ma méthode de judo”, first printed in 1952.

    Page 111, it is named : 9è sutemi / KAMI BASAMI (sic) / Les pinces de langouste


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