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    johan smits

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    Join date : 2013-01-22

    shobu no kata 2017

    Post by johan smits on Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:07 pm

    Hi all,

    First let me wish you all a very happy new year and I hope all your landings will be happy ones!

    I also hope that this year will prove fruitful where it concerns information about this most interesting of kata: the Uchida-shi Shobu no Kata.

    NBK is the one who is most knowledgeable about this matter and who has been kind enough to provide info and translations describing this kata.
    Foregoing years not a lot of members has chimed in on this subject.
    Because of that " Those in the know" might conclude that I am the only one interested in this kata. The last I cannot imagine.
    So feel free to share any info you have on Uchida his judo and kata or just chime in so the interest in this kata of ' practical ' judo becomes evident.

    In case nobody else does I will make this subject a Zenny exercise for the rest of my life and will keep on posting yearly.

    Happy landings.
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    NBK

    Posts : 1128
    Join date : 2013-01-10
    Location : Tokyo, Japan

    Re: shobu no kata 2017

    Post by NBK on Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:02 pm

    I like that, Johan! Eternal optimism!!

    But in 2017, there is even more reason for optimism. I may write an essay on the 'lost kata' of Kodokan judo, and this would be section I.

    All the best for 2017,

    NBK

    johan smits

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    Join date : 2013-01-22

    Re: shobu no kata 2017

    Post by johan smits on Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:13 pm

    That is a good start of the new year!!

    Eternal optimism certainly has got a ring to it.

    In "Jiu-Jitsu Tricks" by K. Saito from Nagasaki published in 1905 or so I found a reference to Uchida Ryohei. At least in the Dutch translation of this little book.
    it is stated that Uchida a fourth degree black belt used his judo and a stick to get himself out of trouble. Not much more is given.
    I am at the office now but will check this evening.

    Happy landings.

    johan smits

    Posts : 75
    Join date : 2013-01-22

    Re: shobu no kata 2017

    Post by johan smits on Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:15 am

    My memory is not what it used to be;I hope my English has not suffered the same fate.
    Here goes:

    "Another story is about Uchida Ryohei. It was in Korea in 1904 during the riots at the outbreak of the Russian-Japanese war. Uchida was traveling on foot to some place when he was set upon by several Russians who were armed with short sticks. One of them grabbed him by the throat while another one hit him over the head.
    This was the beginning of a fight to the death. Thanks to his knowledge of jiu-jitsu he wounded five of his attackers so seriously they had to give up. Although he himself was also slightly injured if another twenty attackers would have joined the fight they would have ended up like their comrades no doubt."

    Sounds like The Wolverine now does it not?

    Happy landings.
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    NBK

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    Re: shobu no kata 2017

    Post by NBK on Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:59 am

    Thanks, Johan!

    He was apparently a fearless and competent brawler. I found a judo book with a short bio of Uchida Ryôhei - it said that in the Kodokan the saying was in practical fighting, 'no one stood to the right of Uchida Ryôhei', meaning: no one outranked him in real fighting, even if they had higher judo rank.

    Throughout his life he was ranked one of the highest (3rd ranking?) 5dan, and attained the rank when effectively it was the highest judo rank, or there were only a couple of 6dan. There is an extensive list of active judoka by the Dai Nihon Buotokukai in 1934 and he is not listed as active, but the Kodokan lists him until his death in 1937. (Kano shihan's philosophy appears to have been, once a member, always a member, so the Kodokan rolls continually grow, never shrink, as someone always joins in any given year.)

    johan smits

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    Join date : 2013-01-22

    Re: shobu no kata 2017

    Post by johan smits on Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:05 am

    That is great info!

    Uchida had experience in Kyushin ryu and Jigo Tenshin ryu, both jujutsu styles.
    As far as I know Kyushin ryu does not exisr anymore. On Jigo Tenshin ryu an interesting video can be found on youtube. The style seems to be very flowing, not unlike aikido.

    But ahem... Sleep . Back on topic:

    The shobu no kata consists of sixteen techniques of whick NBK has translated the first six.

    The next section consists of five throwing techniques.
    I wonder which ones...

    Happy landings.
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    NBK

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    Re: shobu no kata 2017

    Post by NBK on Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:19 pm

    Can you post where I translated the first technicques?
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    NBK

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    Re: shobu no kata 2017

    Post by NBK on Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:21 pm

    There're a number outside techniques.

    Interestingly he gives multiple options to the throws themselves, then explains the fine points of and prs / cons of the different throws. Its mostly about positioning vis a vis an attacker, blocking / deflecting then hitting them with the planet.
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    NBK

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    Re: shobu no kata 2017

    Post by NBK on Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:39 pm

    johan smits wrote:That is great info!

    Uchida had experience in Kyushin ryu and Jigo Tenshin ryu, both jujutsu styles.
    As far as I know Kyushin ryu does not exisr anymore. On Jigo Tenshin ryu an interesting video can be found on youtube. The style seems to be very flowing, not unlike aikido.

    But ahem... Sleep . Back on topic:

    The shobu no kata consists of sixteen techniques of whick NBK has translated the first six.

    The next section consists of five throwing techniques.
    I wonder which ones...

    Happy landings.
    The Seibukan dojo mentioned in the last frame of this video is where Uchida Ryohei first learned jujutsu.
    You may well be seeing some of Uchuda's techniques!

    johan smits

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    Join date : 2013-01-22

    Re: shobu no kata 2017

    Post by johan smits on Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:18 pm

    That is very interesting, thanks!

    You translated a part in shobu no kata 2013 on this board. On th e old board it started around 2011 from memory.
    That is the video. You see a fair amount of positiing in it but very flowing.

    Uchida-shi shobu no kata

    Measures regarding life or death (situations)

    Concerning life or death (situations), every technique will vary according to exigencies, however, armed with the supposition that your opponent will, without entering, strike, kick, or thrust, and accordingly one will decide to throw, or crush, or strike and kill;to achieve the excellence of practical application movements should be part of the practice (修練)of adherents.



    Crushing section
    (NOTE: 挫き kujiki is not a precise term, but includes techniques in which Westerners might include joint locks, arm bars, twists, etc.)

    第一

    When (your) opponent comes striking at your face with an open hand (i.e., a slap), lifting my right hand to receive and stop it, grasp and crush (his) fingers.

    It is also desirable in this case to grasp the opponent's wrist with my right hand, then with my left arm strike the opponent's upper arm, then crush with ude-kujiki (armlock).





    When your opponent strikes your face directly, receive and stop his right hand with your right hand and strike his incoming, striking right arm.

    It would also be OK in this case to grasp his striking wrist with both hands, twist his wrist and crush it.

    ****
    NOTES:
    - again, no taisabaki noted but this seems similar to any number of gendai and koryu jujutsu moves, stepping forward with the left foot / turning to the right to face uke from his right, outside his elbow
    - similar strikes generally are made to just above the elbow as the grasping hand extends the arm, so that the strike is above the elbow, uke's arm extended as much as possible, so the elbow is torqued between the hands and hyperextended







    When your opponent strikes at the side of your face, receive and stop with your left hand, immediately grasp with your right hand, and pass under your opponent's right armpit, turning your hands to crush his wrist.

    In this case, also, stopping his strike with your left hand, force back his incoming, striking (right) hand, insert your right hand beneath his (right) arm, press down his wrist while grasping and torquing his arm with your left hand.

    *****

    - The former is actually more of a forearm torquing motion that can lead to a break or a throw. You're using your entire body against the arm, lifting uke's right arm to step underneath and beyond. Twisting to the outside puts incredible torque on uke's forearm.
    - The latter is an armbar, with your right hand passing under and grasping his arm.



    第四

    When struck straight towards the face, I sweep with my left hand (upward?); catch up with the (upswept) arm by inserting my right hand under uke's right upper arm, grasp his right wrist, and 'crush his arm'.

    Or, can perform 'arm crush' as in #2.


    第五

    When a thrust comes towards the stomach, sweep with my left hand, grasp the wrist with my right hand and 'crush the wrist'.

    第六

    When a kick comes aimed at the 'nether regions' (that's the translation! or 'between the legs', if you prefer....)、grasp the edge of the heel with your left hand, grasp the toes with your right hand, and twist and lift to 'crush the ankle'.

    ****
    #6 above should be familiar.

    In the video there are some techniques shown which would fit the descriptions you translated.

    This is a good start of 2017. Great things accomplish we will. alien

    Happy landings.

    johan smits

    Posts : 75
    Join date : 2013-01-22

    Re: shobu no kata 2017

    Post by johan smits on Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:35 pm

    There is quite a lot of 'crushing' going on. Sure they roll out of it but still. It all seems very practical, no waisted effort,not a lot of strength used.
    All standing techniques (at least in what is shown).
    Is Jigo Tenshin ryu the first style Uchida trained in?

    Happy landings.

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