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    Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

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    Ricebale

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    Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

    Post by Ricebale on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:28 pm

    Hey,

    Just a couple of training vids, a couple at the beach and one at the park. Doing throws no-gi, it's fun but needs some adjustment from a gi.



    This park one I took with a guy who has never done standup grappling before so we are going ultra slow motion and he is getting used to taking falls:



    The main adjustment I've found is keeping chest pressure and without the gi you need to move a bit more to break balance as you cannot pull your opponent as well. I don't differentiate Judo from wrestling when in no-gi so I tend to mix the two and run with English terminology.

    Happy to receive some tips, just post a vid response to exchange knowledge.

    Cheers
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    Dutch Budo

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    Re: Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

    Post by Dutch Budo on Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:25 am

    I liked the first video, although a lot of the throws you will not see in judo. The control etc was really good, I like it. The second video wasnt so good.


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    Ricebale

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    Re: Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

    Post by Ricebale on Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:18 am

    Cheers Dutch, in the first vid I'm with guys who can take a fall on soft sand and the second I'm with a beginner first lesson on grass. Makes a difference I agree.

    In the first the theme was pickups so with the deletion of bear hugging from modern Judo I think at least half of those throws aren't viable. I've found the sand training good for leg strength and correct entry. The legs burn after an hour or so.

    On sand you can't speed blast a technique as your feet are slowed by the sand and there is less pivoting on the feet which inhibits some throws particularly turning ones. I've found in no-gi that turning throws are less effective generally and you need to really get them walking onto the throw.
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    genetic judoka

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    Re: Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

    Post by genetic judoka on Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:07 am

    Ricebale wrote:Cheers Dutch, in the first vid I'm with guys who can take a fall on soft sand and the second I'm with a beginner first lesson on grass. Makes a difference I agree.

    In the first the theme was pickups so with the deletion of bear hugging from modern Judo I think at least half of those throws aren't viable. I've found the sand training good for leg strength and correct entry. The legs burn after an hour or so.

    On sand you can't speed blast a technique as your feet are slowed by the sand and there is less pivoting on the feet which inhibits some throws particularly turning ones. I've found in no-gi that turning throws are less effective generally and you need to really get them walking onto the throw.

    that sort of depends on which "turning throw", and the quality of tori's knees. it's been my experience from working with MMA people on their throws that I can throw someone short in no gi with a hip throw while they're retreating, I just gotta get really low. but if my knees are sore that day, no way. and then there's throws like tai otoshi and ashi guruma (at least my version of it) that work great no gi no matter which direction uke is moving, as long as their weight is forward (which actually happens quite often when people retreat).

    the only issue is that throwing someone forward (gi or no gi) usually requires full committal, and not everyone wants to commit fully every time.
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    Dutch Budo

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    Re: Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

    Post by Dutch Budo on Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:09 am

    I find that when people go for double underhooks, its very easy to go for one whizzer and one control on the elbow, and squaring off so your feet and their are in a T shape, a lot of hip throws work briliantly. Harai goshi and uchi mata in particular. It also works really well off the cage wall or with one underhook. Those are my favourites along with the sumi gaeshi of a kimura grip, as a counter to the single leg takedown.


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    Ricebale

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    Re: Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

    Post by Ricebale on Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:06 am

    For me the gi gives greater efficiency for pulling whereas the no-gi favors pushing, turning throws are easier when you can pull.

    The throws I can hit are:

    Headlock throw, particularly the sag version
    Thigh throw - Uchimata off a single or double overs
    Harai Goshi when I am the shorter guy off an underhook

    I have noticed a height advantage helps alot, particularly leg length for the thigh throws.

    I have trouble with landing a hip throw and an arm throw correctly, I'd get ipoon in Judo but the result is at least 50% they get my back on landing or execution.

    The Ipoon Judo series for pickups I think is still one of the best for that style of Judo, it translates well into no-gi also. Quite possibly my preference for pickups detriments my turning throws.

    Cheers
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

    Post by Ricebale on Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:29 am



    This throw is done by a13yr old kid in my class, it is quite effortless and is basically the go to move when a person turns their back. You see it alot in wrestling and mma, not sure if it would count as a legal entry into groundwork for Judo.

    With a gi it's harder to do asyour gi is normally pulling you off balance but no-gi it's easy to hit.

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    Dutch Budo

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    Re: Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

    Post by Dutch Budo on Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:48 am

    That would have been legal in judo, but nowadays you cant even grab around the waist like that anymore. Its a good throw, i use it to get the back afterwards. I like to duck under the arm though, the way its performed now, its only going to work if your opponent gives up the underhook, or even the overhook. So its a good technique, but the way its performed now it will only work if your opponent makes a mistake.

    In grappling, I either do it from an armdrag, or i try to duck under the arm from an underhook clinch (I move to the side of the underhook).


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    Ricebale

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    Re: Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

    Post by Ricebale on Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:30 am

    I was just perusing my bids and I came across this one from 2009.

    The good old "Ricebale" throw, I love this throw!



    I didn't know I was being filmed in these so my hair is messy Smile I'm going very light

    This throw works great when it works, can have bad results when it fails though, a decent choice against a driving single leg where your balance has gone anyway.

    This was at my old club before I went my own way. For those curious as to all the outdoor training it gets mid 30deg cel down our way and outdoors there is an ocean breeze.

    Cheers
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    OldeEnglishD

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    Re: Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

    Post by OldeEnglishD on Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:55 am

    Ricebale wrote:For those curious as to all the outdoor training it gets mid 30deg cel down our way and outdoors there is an ocean breeze.

    Cheers

    We train in the park sometimes in the summer here. We get a lot of strange looks and the occasional child who asks, "Hey mister, what are you guys doing?"


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    Ricebale

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    Re: Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

    Post by Ricebale on Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:02 pm

    I posted this in the now defunct forum, it's a vid of an Australian Olypmian Judoka in an MMA match.

    Of note to this topic see how when he uses body contact throws they land, when he goes for more "judo" turning thorws he gets stuffed like I showed above:



    I think this is telling at least for the abilities of people in my region as to what type of Judo is practical for no-gi. From my view this is a common issue across all levels of no-gi excpet in a few cases such as Rousey & Karo have/were been the most consistent in turning throws.

    Cheers
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    genetic judoka

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    Re: Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

    Post by genetic judoka on Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:39 am

    Ricebale wrote:For me the gi gives greater efficiency for pulling whereas the no-gi favors pushing, turning throws are easier when you can pull.

    The throws I can hit are:

    Headlock throw, particularly the sag version
    Thigh throw - Uchimata off a single or double overs
    Harai Goshi when I am the shorter guy off an underhook

    I have noticed a height advantage helps alot, particularly leg length for the thigh throws.

    I have trouble with landing a hip throw and an arm throw correctly, I'd get ipoon in Judo but the result is at least 50% they get my back on landing or execution.

    The Ipoon Judo series for pickups I think is still one of the best for that style of Judo, it translates well into no-gi also. Quite possibly my preference for pickups detriments my turning throws.

    Cheers

    really I think you nailed it with your last sentence. your preference for pickups is a detriment to the time you spend working on your turning throws. we get good at the things we practice, and we're generally most effective when we use the things we're good at. we do some no gi randori from time to time at my dojo (often on saturdays), and what has surprisingly been my most effective throw, is okuri ashi harai, followed by my version of ashi guruma. again it's what you practice. can I hit those throws against you while you're trying to do pickups? well to be honest I'd love to find out. if I ever make it down under, we'll have to find out the fun way.
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

    Post by Ricebale on Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:10 am

    genetic judoka wrote:really I think you nailed it with your last sentence. your preference for pickups is a detriment to the time you spend working on your turning throws. we get good at the things we practice, and we're generally most effective when we use the things we're good at. we do some no gi randori from time to time at my dojo (often on saturdays), and what has surprisingly been my most effective throw, is okuri ashi harai, followed by my version of ashi guruma. again it's what you practice. can I hit those throws against you while you're trying to do pickups? well to be honest I'd love to find out. if I ever make it down under, we'll have to find out the fun way.

    Would be fun, the tyranny of distance alas

    People definitely get out what they put in, plus natural biological and temperament advantages I think. I certainly have an almost paranoia about turning my back but I love pickups, foot trips and sacrifice throws.

    Here is a mate of mine who is pure Judo in a Pankration comp a few years back who rips off 2 nice throws:



    I'll post another vid of him in full MMA too.

    NYCNewbie

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    Re: Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

    Post by NYCNewbie on Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:13 pm

    What would you call that "Outside Trip" using Judo terminology?
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

    Post by Ricebale on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:33 pm

    NYCNewbie wrote:What would you call that "Outside Trip" using Judo terminology?

    Kosoto Gari, see this vid for the move in pure judo comp:



    It's a fundamental Judo for no-gi or mma throw, you generally land in side control or half guard.

    Cheers
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    genetic judoka

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    Re: Some Vids of No-Gi Tachi-Waza Technique

    Post by genetic judoka on Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:26 am

    Ricebale wrote:
    genetic judoka wrote:really I think you nailed it with your last sentence. your preference for pickups is a detriment to the time you spend working on your turning throws. we get good at the things we practice, and we're generally most effective when we use the things we're good at. we do some no gi randori from time to time at my dojo (often on saturdays), and what has surprisingly been my most effective throw, is okuri ashi harai, followed by my version of ashi guruma. again it's what you practice. can I hit those throws against you while you're trying to do pickups? well to be honest I'd love to find out. if I ever make it down under, we'll have to find out the fun way.

    Would be fun, the tyranny of distance alas

    People definitely get out what they put in, plus natural biological and temperament advantages I think. I certainly have an almost paranoia about turning my back but I love pickups, foot trips and sacrifice throws.

    Here is a mate of mine who is pure Judo in a Pankration comp a few years back who rips off 2 nice throws:



    I'll post another vid of him in full MMA too.
    the thing is, turning throws take a long time to develop. not just the speed needed, but also the timing, and most importantly the confidence. I never used to like them either. my main throws were always osoto gari, and ouchi gari. it took almost 2 years of concentrated effort and repeated failures before I started landing turning throws that weren't soto makikomi in full resistance randori. yeah, that's 2 years of getting countered, hard. but I kept at it, and it was worth it. the first time I landed a harai goshi in randori I did a victory dance. I'm not even kidding. but then it was like someone flipped a switch, and all the sudden they became easy.

    in watching your video I'm reminded of the importance of not launching an osoto unless you have broken your opponent's balance. otherwise they just pick you up and drop you. or if they're me they foot sweep you.

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