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    Shiro Saigo - one from four Guardians of the Kōdōkan

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    noboru

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    Shiro Saigo - one from four Guardians of the Kōdōkan

    Post by noboru on Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:26 pm

    Shiro Saigo (1866-1922) - one from four Guardians of the Kōdōkan, he left Kodokan and judo in 1890 and later studied Kyudo (japanse way of archery), after death (1922) he received 6.dan from Kano Jigoro.

    Does anybody why did he leave Kodokan, more info?
    His famous technique was Yama-arashi. Who does teach Yama-arashi today?

    Links:
    http://www.bestjudo.com/article/1233/shiro-saigo-judos-secret-weapon

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiro_Saigo

    from wikipedia:
    In 1890, Saigō was forced to leave the Kōdōkan due to his involvement in a street brawl. According to sources, a drunken Shiro challenged a sumotori named Araumi, knocking him out with a throw, which caused a brawl between Shiro's entourage of judoka and Araumi's sumo stable.[4] According to one version, he would have actually killed the sumo by striking him with an atemi blow in the chest.[2] In any way, Saigo continued with the brawl and attacked many policemen who attempted to break it up, injurying them and even throwing some of them into a nearby river, which got him in jail until Kano could get him out.[2] He retired to Nagasaki, devoting the rest of his life to kyūdō.[11] As a sign of pardon, however, Kano conceded him the 6th dan after his death.

    other sources:
    http://www.cagesideseats.com/2012/12/8/3669792/the-forgotten-golden-age-of-mma-part-two-the-rise-of-judo-dawn-of-new-age-john-nash
    This did not last long, for, in 1891, Saigo Shiro abruptly left.

    The stories for his leaving are many. Many involve too much drink or fighting. One tells of Kanō being forced to banish him following a melee the police tried to break up only to end up either injured or thrown into the river by Shiro. Another, involves a duel with a 200 cm, 140 kg sumo wrestler named Ara-umi, in which Shiro killed him with a blow to the chest.

    The most likely, and more poetic, was the conflict Shiro felt between Kanō's and his first master - his adopted father. When one pledged themselves to a sensei, it carried a strong obligation to serve, known as giri. Shiro had been raised and taught Oshikiuchi by Saigo Tanomo who had visions of him carrying on the family jujutsu.

    At the same time, he had dedicated himself to Kanō and his Kōdōkan Judo. He could not be dedicated to both and yet, he could not choose one without betraying the other.

    Shiro's solution was to move to Nagasaki and become a reporter, abandoning both Oshikiuchi and Judo in the process. Thus, Shiro escaped having to break his giri to either of his two masters and never took up another hand-to-hand discipline, instead choosing to dedicate himself to Kyūdō, or the Way of the Bow and Arrow.

    Years later, Shiro would be immortalized as the title character in the novel Sanshiro Sugata, written by Tomita Tsunejiro's son, Tsuneo Tomita, which would be released as a film in 1943 by Akira Kurosawa.

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    NBK

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    Re: Shiro Saigo - one from four Guardians of the Kōdōkan

    Post by NBK on Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:37 pm

    There's a lot of mystery surrounding his departure but it's a lot more prosaic.

    Shina Shiro (his origin name) showed up in Tokyo with certain goals in mind. They were not to be, and he took another path.

    There's little to no evidence that Saigo Shiro, his name by adoption, was taught the lost secret taijutsu / jujutsu of the Saigo family as a child. The tale is mostly based on the pretensions of a couple of jujutsu schools that would enhance their history by intertwining his with theirs.

    The evidence is pretty flimsy at best, and the reality is much more interesting and important. I will touch upon it in my book perhaps - it is an interesting but very small sideshow in martial arts history.

    Much of his tale comes from the essentially unsubstantiated 'police judo matches' and his role.

    Kano shihan spoke well of him until his early death. But he was wont to dote on people he liked - he spoke the same way of his college jujutsu partner Dr. Godai, saying it was a waste that he didn't continue judo. Never mind that when he said it, Godai was a famous and successful medical doctor.
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    Udon

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    Re: Shiro Saigo - one from four Guardians of the Kōdōkan

    Post by Udon on Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:38 pm

    Book? Can you please elaborate
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    noboru

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    may be as bodyguard of Mr. Sunyatsen - chinese political leader

    Post by noboru on Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:55 pm

    Here is one photo from his later life - may be as bodyguard of Mr. Sunyatsen - chinese political leader

    Shiro Saigo is second from right


    From: http://ashurakansetsuwazakingu.over-blog.com/page/2


    Last edited by noboru on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    noboru

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    Shiro Saigo - city guide Onomichi, Hiroshima

    Post by noboru on Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:59 pm

    From - city guide Onomichi, Hiroshima - place of his death
    http://www.onomichiguide.com/35199371112223537070---saigou-shirou.html



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    NBK

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    Re: Shiro Saigo - one from four Guardians of the Kōdōkan

    Post by NBK on Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:03 pm

    Udon wrote:Book? Can you please elaborate

    book
    bʊk
    noun
    1. a written or printed work consisting of pages glued or sewn together along one side and bound in covers.
    "a book of selected poems"
    synonyms: volume, tome, work, printed work, publication, title, opus, treatise; More

    2. a bound set of blank sheets for writing in.
    "an accounts book"
    synonyms: notepad, notebook, pad, memo pad, exercise book, binder; More

    I'm referring to the former. tongue Although, in these days, it's also possible that the 'book' will end up being 0s and 1s on someone's computer or e-reader, too.

    Something I'm working on for a while. I've been researching for over 15 years, and started writing late last year.

    But I keep getting diverted - today I spent a couple of hours reading a mid-1910's series on the pre-history of judo, very interesting, but not so important to the history I'm building. Maybe I'll find a use for it - I've never seen this referred to in English or Japanese, and Kano shihan had a role in the series.

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    Udon

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    Re: Shiro Saigo - one from four Guardians of the Kōdōkan

    Post by Udon on Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:58 am

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    Udon

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    Re: Shiro Saigo - one from four Guardians of the Kōdōkan

    Post by Udon on Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:01 am

    All the best with the written or printed work consisting of .........
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    NBK

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    Re: Shiro Saigo - one from four Guardians of the Kōdōkan

    Post by NBK on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:47 am

    Udon wrote:All the best with the written or printed work consisting of .........
    Thank you.
    I started exploring judo history - which has never been correctly explained, as far as I know, and but ended up in a very different place, but at least the path goes along judo. Hard to explain, which makes the story complicated, but hopefully it will be of some interest to judoka.

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    NBK

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    Re: Shiro Saigo - one from four Guardians of the Kōdōkan

    Post by NBK on Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:37 am

    Since writing the bits and pieces above on Saigo Shiro, I think I found a real key to his history. Interesting bu sad in many ways, he died at 57 from a debilitating illness. He met late in life, 1919, with Kano shihan, apparently after over 35 years of not meeting. After that he was increasingly ill and bed-ridden, and died late in 1922, and was promoted posthumously by Kano shihan to 6 dan at the 1923 kagamibiraki ceremony. I will have to put something about him in my book, but many of the tales are not born out by this, it seems.

    Ellis Amdur

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    Re: Shiro Saigo - one from four Guardians of the Kōdōkan

    Post by Ellis Amdur on Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:26 am

    John Stevens in a recent book wrote about Saigo's post Kodokan life. It might be worthwhile to reach out to John to get his sources, which, IIRC, he doesn't list in the book itself, at least not in detail. It's been quite awhile since I read the book, but per my recollection, Saigo was expelled from the Kodokan for repeated incidents of street violence, was very involved in political right-wing activities. That Saigo was a bodyguard of SunYatsen establishes that he was very involved with Japanese right wing movements. Sun Yatsen's patrons in Japan being Toyama Mitsuru and Uchida Ryohei.

    It is possible that there may be more written about Saigo in some of the historical records of the Genyosha and Kokuryukai, etc. - there are quite extensive histories written about the various right-wing/patriotic organizations, which go into considerable detail. Only in Japanese, of course.

    Ellis Amdur
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    noboru

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    Re: Shiro Saigo - one from four Guardians of the Kōdōkan

    Post by noboru on Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:58 pm

    Thank you for your info.

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