E-Judo

Judo network and forum


    Adapted Judo

    Share
    avatar
    Y-Chromosome

    Posts : 116
    Join date : 2015-06-02
    Location : The Great White North

    Adapted Judo

    Post by Y-Chromosome on Mon May 22, 2017 12:44 am

    From Kodokan News:
    Link to Article
    Link to Facebook video
    Demonstration and Opinion Exchange Meeting of Special Needs Judo
    10 May 2017
    Mr. Cees Rust who is researching about Judo for persons with disabilities visited the Kodokan from the Netherlands with three cooperators. On Thursday, April 20 at the main dojo, they demonstrated some Kata that was tailored by them in front of related Japanese persons, and it was followed by an opinion exchange meeting.

    Mr. Cees Rust, now 41 years old, started Judo when he was 13 years old. He injured his cervical spine in a traffic accident when he was 24 years old, and it left him paralyzed from the waist down. Nevertheless, he has continued Judo and now has a 3rd Dan of the Netherlands and also the qualification of Judo trainee, and is instructing children.

    Judo for visually-impaired persons is popular in the world, and Judo events for them are held in Paralympic Games. Mr. Cees Rust and cooperators are researching and promoting Judo for persons with a disability of every kind including Down syndrome and physical disability, and they named it "Special Needs Judo".

    One has to admire the enormous effort it took to prepare this demonstration. Some very interesting and successful adaptations, others I think may need more study or have to go in entirely different direction. An enormous challenge attempting to adapt an art that makes so much use of hips and legs to a person with the lower body immobile.

    Lately in Quebec, the grading board has been adamant that they want no more "Doctors notes" during gradings. Do the waza or don't grade. In this case, I think there is a better approach. I would far rather see adapted waza, than no waza at all. My one proviso is that there should be some validity to the waza.
    avatar
    Jonesy

    Posts : 1006
    Join date : 2013-01-02

    Re: Adapted Judo

    Post by Jonesy on Mon May 22, 2017 5:21 pm

    Y-Chromosome wrote:From Kodokan News:
    Link to Article
    Link to Facebook video
    Demonstration and Opinion Exchange Meeting of Special Needs Judo
    10 May 2017
    Mr. Cees Rust who is researching about Judo for persons with disabilities visited the Kodokan from the Netherlands with three cooperators. On Thursday, April 20 at the main dojo, they demonstrated some Kata that was tailored by them in front of related Japanese persons, and it was followed by an opinion exchange meeting.

    Mr. Cees Rust, now 41 years old, started Judo when he was 13 years old. He injured his cervical spine in a traffic accident when he was 24 years old, and it left him paralyzed from the waist down. Nevertheless, he has continued Judo and now has a 3rd Dan of the Netherlands and also the qualification of Judo trainee, and is instructing children.

    Judo for visually-impaired persons is popular in the world, and Judo events for them are held in Paralympic Games. Mr. Cees Rust and cooperators are researching and promoting Judo for persons with a disability of every kind including Down syndrome and physical disability, and they named it "Special Needs Judo".

    One has to admire the enormous effort it took to prepare this demonstration.  Some very interesting and successful adaptations, others I think may need more study or have to go in entirely different direction.  An enormous challenge attempting to adapt an art that makes so much use of hips and legs to a person with the lower body immobile.

    Lately in Quebec, the grading board has been adamant that they want no more "Doctors notes" during gradings.  Do the waza or don't grade.  In this case, I think there is a better approach.  I would far rather see adapted waza, than no waza at all.  My one proviso is that there should be some validity to the waza.
    Appalling attitude by Quebec.  Judo is an education and gradings are about knowledge and skill. There many ways that can be proven.  Shame on them.


    _________________
    ジョーンズ
    avatar
    Y-Chromosome

    Posts : 116
    Join date : 2015-06-02
    Location : The Great White North

    Re: Adapted Judo

    Post by Y-Chromosome on Tue May 23, 2017 12:29 am

    Jonesy wrote:Appalling attitude by Quebec.  Judo is an education and gradings are about knowledge and skill.  There  many ways that can be proven.  Shame on them.

    I understand where they're coming from. The grading is perceived as primarily about skill and there was a perception that too many people were using doctors notes to try and game the system. ie. be able to demonstrate what they're good at and get a bye on what they're not.

    Sure you can learn a lot about judo through alternate means, but if you can't step onto the mat and perform it, do you really "know" it in a judo sense. We have a lot of young students who look at pictures and videos and know which throw is which by name, but when it comes time to demonstrate, the little elements don't come together quite right and uke slides down their leg rather than being thrown crisply onto their back. I have trouble in these instances in accepting that the kid "knows" the throw.

    Also is it fair to fail one person for a mediocre execution of Nage no Kata, and then let another pass without doing it, because... "oh my back you know". At a certain point they got fed up and said that if you can't perform the physical requirements for a certain grade, you don't grade.

    Here we have a different approach. Rather than saying "I can't do this, so I shouldn't have to" this gentleman has said... "I can't do THIS, but I can do THAT, will you accept it as equivalent." It appears that at least the Dutch have said yes. The Kodokan has so far shown an interest in thinking about it.

    There is a lot to unpack here. Judo is a discipline that primarily manifests itself in physical performance and possesses a well defined syllabus which makes fine distinctions between various throwing principles. To what degree can we accept modification of those principles for an adapted syllabus? How plastic does that syllabus have to be considering that people are going to come in with varying degrees of mobility? Who's job is it to come up with the adaptation and who decides if the adaptation is appropriate? Will there be a line in the sand somewhere that says, sorry, nice try but that's no longer judo.
    Will the shiai requirements still be insisted on, and if so, how will that work?

    davidn

    Posts : 32
    Join date : 2013-01-09
    Age : 45
    Location : northern CA

    Re: Adapted Judo

    Post by davidn on Tue May 23, 2017 11:54 am

    This is just the beginning of what could be a very important, influential conversation.

    As I have a new job and take public transportation, I've been thinking about this a lot as I see how disabled/special needs people are treated, or how specific changes for their needs are implemented.

    It's caused me to ask myself "If this person came to my class, how/what would I teach them?"... because telling them "Sorry, you can't do judo" is not an option in my opinion.

    I don't have any good answers. I'm just a shodan trying to stay a step ahead of his kids. Would be interesting to see more development in this area.
    avatar
    Stacey

    Posts : 546
    Join date : 2013-01-17
    Location : your worst nightmares

    Re: Adapted Judo

    Post by Stacey on Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:04 pm

    okay, I see davidn posted on May 22 when I was having my stump revised in what I hope will be the last surgery on my leg post injury. For those who don't know, Sept. 23, 2015, I had a motorcycle accident where I landed really well - there wasn't a scratch on my helmet. My left leg didn't survive being squished between a guardrail and the bike all that well. They tried to save it, but on Nov. 22, 2016, it was amputated in what's called an "elective" amputation (basically, where it's not an emergency surgery, but you're abandoning trying to save it). I've also had an infection issue, like many trauma amputees, resulting in somewhere between 20 and 30 total surgeries (I think more towards the 20 side, but can't be sure - that first week in the ICU is a total blur).

    So, if I ever submitted my paperwork, I'd be a nidan. Whoopee! It took me something like 6-8 years to actually submit the paperwork for my shodan, so rank isn't a big deal to me, as you can plainly see. Judo, however, is a big deal to me. I'm looking forward to stepping back on the tatami in the near future (ne waza classes, at least initially. I'm not cleared for throwing yet). I need to get physically back in shape, get more acquainted with my new body, and attempt to apply what I know about judo to my new body.

    Wait, what the? What does it mean to be a one legged judoka among all you two legged freaks?

    Honestly, I don't know. I've been in the Dojo of the Mind for so long that I do have an idea. I've also been connecting with a few other amputee judoka. There's one here in the US named Joe Walters sensei who lost his leg above the knee in the Vietnam War. His son wrote a book about it available through Amazon called Strength in Numbers, but it isn't a "how to" manual of what to do in judo. I've been talking with him some. He gave up on shiai about a dozen or so years ago and strictly teaches these days, like a lot of men in their 70's. Joe has a candy cane belt, don't know the particular rank.

    I've contacted two gents in their 70's in the UK who are amputee judoka, at the same club, playing each other for decades, along with everybody else at the club. Don't know much about them as I've only had a bit of contact with one.

    There's a young guy also in the UK, named Jamie Gane who's a BKA on the opposite side of me. He's trying for his shodan but looking for more amputee judoka to play as he has yet to play one. I've promised to cross the pond when I'm an acceptable target for his waza. You can read about this guy through his blog here: http://www.jamiegane.com/blog/2017/6/14/amputee-judo.

    He and I have very different ideas about amputee judo, and it's probably because 1. I'm old as dirt, and 2. I haven't been on the tatami as an amputee judoka yet. I personally think that no rule modifications need to apply to shiai and reasonable modifications need apply to kata. I think that your standard gateme no kata and nage no kata are do-able with one leg. The rest? I don't know. It would take a bit of creative adaptation to make those kata fit the capabilities of somebody with one leg. I'd have to find a good kata partner to play with those (and I'd have to learn more than juno kata and a bit and piece of a few others). But, when it comes to shiai, I don't think there should be a separate "amputee" division. When it comes to testing, I don't think there should be a separate amputee division. I just want to play, and play all comers to the best of my ability. Jamie wants a separate division. Cool. Somebody had to come up with the rules and modifications for blind judo, perhaps he'll come up with the rules, mods, and juice to come up with a disabled judo division, especially in the paralympics. I personally am too old to worry about the paralympics or to want to do more than play at the highest level I can play at with other "masters" or whatever they're calling old farts these days.

    But my first steps are to get into shape (I've lost all muscle mass on my left leg what with not walking for almost 2 years) and then get onto the tatami with people I trust so that we can experiment with what I really can and cannot do.

    I do think that a ne waza division in most shiai would be a good thing. We lost Matt Marcinek, a guy with MS who couldn't do much with his lower body, once the "no leg grab" rule went into effect. He's a great guy, trains bjj these days, and is a total loss to judo.

    Fwiw, I'm going to start with bjj on the ground classes once I can get back on the tatami. It's going to take stamina and muscle mass and more work on my balance before I can get into a judo class. Besides, I'll have to figure out just the opening warm-ups. Shrimping, no problem. But side falls from standing - gonna take a bit of work. Front falls? Sheesh, dunno. And if you run around the room to get the blood flowing? I get to jump around in a corner instead? I don't know.

    Oh, and you can follow my progress here:
    http://staceyknapp.altervista.org/blog/

    Oh, and there is another woman who's a BKA (below the knee amputee) who's around my age, over in the UK, and a Barcelona olympian who's teaching judo to kids who are not amputees or disabled. I will eventually pick her brain as well.
    avatar
    Y-Chromosome

    Posts : 116
    Join date : 2015-06-02
    Location : The Great White North

    Re: Adapted Judo

    Post by Y-Chromosome on Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:51 am

    Stacey,
    Of course I'm sorry to hear about your accident, but it is inspiring to hear how you're dealing with it and heartwarming to see you approaching life with such good humor.
    This whole broad area is still in its infancy. As a society we're still struggling to make sure people have access to washrooms and public transit, let alone sort out all the details of what is 'fair' in terms of sports competition and grading.
    I can see how separate divisions can be a double-edged sword.
    Keeping amputees apart could level the playing field on the one hand, but make it awfully difficult to find enough people to compete at all on the other. I would hope all-concerned stay as flexible and open-minded as possible. As it is, the girls are usually lumped together across weight, age and belt classes to make a big enough pool. I'm not sure how wide a net one would have to cast to fill a division for U16, -52kg, Female, Green to Blue... with single-limb amputation.
    It will be interesting to see if Para-Judo moves beyond the VI competition to other conditions.
    I wish you all the best with training and recovery.
    avatar
    Stacey

    Posts : 546
    Join date : 2013-01-17
    Location : your worst nightmares

    Re: Adapted Judo

    Post by Stacey on Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:44 am

    The way I'm looking at it is simple, and probably too simple. I look at it kind of like left-handed judoka. Lefties are great at playing righties because most of their training partners are righties. Righties are not exactly comfortable playing lefties, but they get used to it because there are quite a number of lefties around, including one or two in their own dojo (probably more). But, put a leftie against another leftie, and things get interesting. Neither are used to actually playing with another leftie, not to the competence level as playing against a righty.

    Same thing happens a lot with women and girls in judo (though this is changing some). Judo is dominated by men in the US, so a woman in judo is used to playing men. Men have some experience playing with women, at least with their token woman in their dojo. Once you get to shiai, and women are stuck playing women, some perhaps for the first time, and some perhaps only encounter and play other women at shiai in their judo careers.

    Amputee judoka? Just another variation along the same lines, but with an even smaller number of people in the eligible pool. Unlike many other adaptive sports, there's very little that can be adapted to the amputee. Sure, I'm going to modify my pants, and I'm going to cover my stump with silicon so that I don't get nasty mat burn that prevents me from wearing a prosthetic for a few days, but those are personal preferences. Others tape their pant leg up. Others fold. Most wear nothing on their stump. Whatever - nobody's ever going to allow an amputee to full on randori with a prosthetic on. So, we adapt to judo.

    Judo can help with this adaptation at shia and in the dojo. My balance is interesting, and I do throw myself at strange times, usually the more I'm concentrating on balance, the more I'm apt to fall. Sitting on my ass to adjust my jacket and obi - it's a good thing. Now, how much leeway I'd get at shiai when walking on a knee or stump and a foot v. hopping, I don't know. Can I stick my stump out and touch my partner with no intention of throwing simply because it means I'm more stable that way (something I figured out making a sandwich - if i put my knee into the door of the cupboard, I can dump the crutches and use both hands to make a sandwich. something about contact between my lower leg and something else means more stability).

    But, to the thesis of paralympic judo extending beyond blind judo - imho, it's not likely. Amputee wrestling left the paralymplics a while ago. If wrestling can't make it, what with its leg grabs and touches below the belt, what chance does amputee or mobility impaired judo?

    Does this mean you dismiss a student for not being able bodied? No. I don't think the vast majority of us would do that. I didn't. The only student I ever refused was one with an active stent coming out of his stomach who couldn't supply a doctor's okay. Most people? You can adapt judo to their bodies. Those of us who are older have had active, immediate, personal examples of this as our bodies have gone through our aging process. Shoulder doesn't work all that well in a traditional way? Change things up and adapt to our bodies. Knee doesn't work like it used to? Change it up and dump that drop seio.

    Amputation, imho, is just more of the same. A lot more of the same, but falling under the same principle.

    Wanna get more amputee judoka in your dojo? Hit the VA hospitals, especially the ones with relevant rehabs. You won't get a lot of interest, but how many people who attend a demonstration actually show up for a trial class?
    avatar
    Y-Chromosome

    Posts : 116
    Join date : 2015-06-02
    Location : The Great White North

    Re: Adapted Judo

    Post by Y-Chromosome on Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:14 am

    Stacey wrote:Whatever - nobody's ever going to allow an amputee to full on randori with a prosthetic on. So, we adapt to judo.
    ...

    I for one, wouldn't have a problem with it.

    I see it more of a design problem. If we can design prosthetics that let an amputee outperform able bodied runners on the track, we can design a randori-safe prosthetic. (My parents would have said "If we can put a man on the moon....")

    I think If we are going to make judo more accessible we need to be open minded about adjusting regulations when reasonable and safe to do so.

    In that regard, it's encouraging that the Kodokan is starting to look at these issues. Conservative as they are, the Kodokan doesn't like having ideas imposed on it. (Note their continued resistance to Blue judogi.) On the other hand if the necessary adaptations are THEIR idea... I can't see the change-crazy IJF standing in the way.
    avatar
    Stacey

    Posts : 546
    Join date : 2013-01-17
    Location : your worst nightmares

    Re: Adapted Judo

    Post by Stacey on Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:21 am

    Y-Chromosome wrote:
    Stacey wrote:Whatever - nobody's ever going to allow an amputee to full on randori with a prosthetic on. So, we adapt to judo.
    ...

    I for one, wouldn't have a problem with it.

    I see it more of a design problem.  If we can design prosthetics that let an amputee outperform able bodied runners on the track, we can design a randori-safe prosthetic.  (My parents would have said "If we can put a man on the moon....")

    I think If we are going to make judo more accessible we need to be open minded about adjusting regulations when reasonable and safe to do so.

    In that regard, it's encouraging that the Kodokan is starting to look at these issues.  Conservative as they are, the Kodokan doesn't like having ideas imposed on it.  (Note their continued resistance to Blue judogi.)  On the other hand if the necessary adaptations are THEIR idea... I can't see the change-crazy IJF standing in the way.

    They have all sorts of padded stuff that can be put over the hardware. The real problem is feel. There's no feel to it, other than what's going on in your mind. So, when I had a leg they were trying to save, and the doctor said, "can you feel this", my answer was, "feel what?". When he said, "push your toes up/down" I'd execute the maneuver, feeling in my mind that I was doing both up and down. Little did I know, I couldn't push down.

    Feeling is a weird thing, and cutting off the interface between the outside world and the inside world creates some unique problems. In judo, even with appropriate padding, there is not enough information coming in from the absent leg to make wearing a prosthesis safe. It's like this - when they were trying to save my leg and the skin wounds were healed, I'd swim to try to do something. I'd do a flip turn, and not know if my left leg landed properly until enough of a shock was transmitted up my non feeling leg to the points that could feel. It was then that I'd push off with that leg. It would be wholly inappropriate to perform ashi waza, senkaku, or any of a myriad of other techniques on another person, a training partner, with such an inability to feel. Movement would be dangerous because I wouldn't know how much pressure I was applying.

    Now, when it comes to advances in prosthetics, there's only one guy working on sensation in legs. http://www.bbc.com/news/health-33052091. As you can see, there are only six sensors in the bottom of the foot, and while this is a major step forward (I love leg puns these days, along with leg jokes), it is very different from laying a prosthetic leg over the back of somebody's head as in senkaku.

    I believe we have a long way to go before there's a leg that's safe to use in judo. In the interim, I will become the ken-ken master of all time.
    avatar
    Udon

    Posts : 138
    Join date : 2012-12-31
    Location : Minnesota

    Re: Adapted Judo

    Post by Udon on Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:37 am

    You know, for a lady, you've got some big balls. My hat's off to you !

    Sponsored content

    Re: Adapted Judo

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:05 am