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    Shobu no kata 2018

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    johan smits

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    Shobu no kata 2018

    Post by johan smits on Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:55 pm

    My very best wishes to all of you for the new year. May all your landings be happy ones!

    As I have stated on this subject in the previous years I am making a Zen excercise of this endevour.
    At some personal risk I should explain. There is a possibility that I will p.ss my Zen trainer off in a serious manner keeping bothering him on this subject.
    On the other hand, this work (his, not mine)  is a work of importance.

    My life would maybe be a bit easier if more people would participate in ringing this bell but than Zen and easy living is not very congruent it seems. Or maybe I have not progressed enough in my training. I will keep it up - my training and will patiently await if results will bloom. sunny

    Happy landings.
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    NBK

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    Re: Shobu no kata 2018

    Post by NBK on Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:27 pm

    johan smits wrote:My very best wishes to all of you for the new year. May all your landings be happy ones!

    As I have stated on this subject in the previous years I am making a Zen excercise of this endevour.
    At some personal risk I should explain. There is a possibility that I will p.ss my Zen trainer off in a serious manner keeping bothering him on this subject.
    On the other hand, this work (his, not mine)  is a work of importance.

    My life would maybe be a bit easier if more people would participate in ringing this bell but than Zen and easy living is not very congruent it seems. Or maybe I have not progressed enough in my training. I will keep it up - my training and will patiently await if results will bloom. sunny

    Happy landings.
    It may be in the year of the Dog that your day has come.

    All the best,

    NBK

    johan smits

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    Re: Shobu no kata 2018

    Post by johan smits on Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:49 pm

    Eternal optimism aside for a minute.

    I have read the sentence three times and I must say the phrasing does sound a bit ominous. Now it might be I have read too much Harry Poter lately or it might be me gypsy blood but I guess I will be carrying my short sword with me whenever I leave the house this year.
    One never knows.

    thumbs

    Happy landings.
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    NBK

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    Re: Shobu no kata 2018

    Post by NBK on Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:05 am

    ho.... tonight I was reading a late 1930's judo book that has a section on kata. The author points out that Kime no Kata is also known as Shinken Shôbu no Kata.

    Kano shihan wrote the forward. It's interesting - he says that although judo has spread throughout the world that very few, only a limited number of people actually understand judo. That although despite the fact that he produced a number of different magazines, and gave many lectures, these were appreciated by only a small number of people. Too many people thought that judo was simply jujutsu with some additional features, and failed to understand the true significance of judo.



    johan smits

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    Re: Shobu no kata 2018

    Post by johan smits on Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:14 am

    Was this author referring to the Uchida Shobu no Kata or to the Kodokan Shobu no Kata? And I wonder if Kano counted Uchida among the people who did not understand judo. Since Uchida's judo was of the practical kind.

    Happy landings.
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    Jonesy

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    Re: Shobu no kata 2018

    Post by Jonesy on Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:42 am

    As I have always understood it the Kodokan Kime-no-kata, taken from koryu jujutsu, specifically Tenjin Shinyo-ryu jujutsu, was also known as "Shinken Shobu-no-kata" (真剣勝負の形) with "Shinken Shobu" meaning a "real fight, contest, match, or game" (to the death).

    I also understood the "Shobu-no-kata" to be, a now lost, different exercise.


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    johan smits

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    Re: Shobu no kata 2018

    Post by johan smits on Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:34 am

    One of my teachers explained 'shinken' as a 'real sword' meaning a serious fight. The name kime no kata seems to me a bit further removed from a real fight than the name shinken shobu.
    The now lost Uchida shi shobu no kata seems very interesting to me, partly because Uchida was such an interesting figure. For a minute I thought NBK had a surplus of free time and had translated another technique. Sad


    By the way I wonder if more teachers have made their own shobu no kata. If so it would be very interesting to list them and make comparisons.

    Happy landings
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    Jonesy

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    Re: Shobu no kata 2018

    Post by Jonesy on Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:47 am



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    johan smits

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    Re: Shobu no kata 2018

    Post by johan smits on Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:36 am

    I applaud publications like this one that is why I bought the book on atemi by the same author. Being on vacation in France I do not have access to my library but from memory I must say I am not sure if the torite kata was ever a Kodokan kata. Maybe it was a forerunner of taiho jutsu, but I am not sure.

    I feel we should arrange a studygroup especially for the Uchida-shi Shobu no Kata clown

    Happy landings.
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    NBK

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    Re: Shobu no kata 2018

    Post by NBK on Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:46 am

    Torite no kata was not a Kodokan kata, but rather developed by some Kodokan judo police instructors.

    johan smits

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    Re: Shobu no kata 2018

    Post by johan smits on Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:02 am

    Okay,

    So the torite kata is not a Kodokan kata and looking at it the Go no kata was not 'lost' either since it was still practised by Ochiai sensei and other people.

    Happy landings.
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    Jonesy

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    Re: Shobu no kata 2018

    Post by Jonesy on Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:50 am

    johan smits wrote:Okay,

    So the torite kata is not a Kodokan kata and looking at it the Go no kata was not 'lost' either since it was still practised by Ochiai sensei and other people.

    Happy landings.
    Seiryoku-Zenyo-Kokumin-Taiiku is not lost - it is in the book “Kodokan Judo”, Joshi Goshinho is not lost either - it is in Keiko Fukuda’s book (among others) and Renko-ho is in Kotani, Hirose and Osawa’s book. Plus there are teachers for all these exercises still alive, and films of them on YouTube.


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    johan smits

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    Re: Shobu no kata 2018

    Post by johan smits on Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:02 am

    Then the title of the book may be a bit of a misnomer I quess. That is a bit disturbing. I will see if I can find a review of the book.

    Happy landings.
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    Jonesy

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    Re: Shobu no kata 2018

    Post by Jonesy on Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:12 pm

    They are not “lost” in the sense they are unknown and information cannot be found. They are however “lost” to mainstream judo practice. I reckon you could count on the fingers of one hand the number of dojo in the UK, US or even Japan were they are practiced on a weekly basis.

    Snappy titles sell books. There was a Parulski CD of the same name too, with the mythical Isao Obato.


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    johan smits

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    Re: Shobu no kata 2018

    Post by johan smits on Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:10 pm

    Well if the title gets "mainstream" judoka interested in what some people consider an essential and distinctive part of judo then I am all for it.
    On the other hand what can be found with very little trouble is not really lost. I am not much into snappy titles.

    Snappy landings.
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    NBK

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    Re: Shobu no kata 2018

    Post by NBK on Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:30 am

    I reckon both of you are right.

    For several decades these kata were effective lost to the greater judo world - only rumored but very few people had ever seen them, much less been taught. So, what little information was available was often distorted, there were very few videos of anything much less obscure kata taught only in a handful of dojo. And probably no place weekly (sorry Jonesy) more like a few times a year.

    Today with the internet, videos, and greatly increasing information regarding judo, there's more available seemingly by the hour.

    So, today for someone just starting looking into judo, does a quick Google search for lost kata, and may well have a decent answer in 0.554 secs for something that years ago would have taken perhaps years to track down.

    Lost is a relative term.

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