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    cokiee

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    IJF Dan

    Post by cokiee on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:03 am

    Dear friends,

    trust all is well. Seeking some information, please. Sometime ago I had graded for my dan grade, which was administered by my national federation, and passed. I was issued a national certificate while application was made to the IJF. It's been a long while now, and in asking on the whereabouts of my IJF certificate, I am informed that a representative of the continental federation has stated that IJF does not issue dan grades below 8th dan any longer, with 7th dan to be issued by the continental federation.

    Would any one know if this is true, or am I - or indeed my national federation - being taken for the proverbial ride?

    Many thanks!

    classicschmosby

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    Re: IJF Dan

    Post by classicschmosby on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:24 am

    As far as I'm aware, the IJF only issue dan grades above 8 or if a country does not have a national federation/too small federation. This may have been different in the past. We do not receive IJF certificates in the UK.

    cokiee

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    Re: IJF Dan

    Post by cokiee on Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:00 am

    Thanks! I'm reading the first sentence of your reply as meaning to say that countries with large federations the national federation can issue 8th dan and above?

    Apologies if i wasn't clear, but i guess what i wanted to know was if the IJF still issues the junior dan grade certificates? I know for my NF they did in the past - I have my 2nd dan on an IJF cert.

    classicschmosby

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    Re: IJF Dan

    Post by classicschmosby on Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:22 am

    I wasn't clear, the IJF issue 8 dan and above, some countries do it themselves(france, japan). If a country does not have a national federation, they will issue dan grades below 8th.
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    Jonesy

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    Re: IJF Dan

    Post by Jonesy on Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:45 am

    classicschmosby wrote:As far as I'm aware, the IJF only issue dan grades above 8 or if a country does not have a national federation/too small federation. This may have been different in the past. We do not receive IJF certificates in the UK.
    In the UK, all promotions 7 dan and above receive an IJF certificate here in the U.K.  However, 7 dan is awarde by the EJU, 8 dan, and above by the IJF. There are federations who award their own high grades eg FFJDA.

    The Kodokan is not an IJF affiliated body. It is a private dojo in Tokyo.


    Last edited by Jonesy on Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:49 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Jonesy

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    Re: IJF Dan

    Post by Jonesy on Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:47 am

    cokiee wrote:Thanks! I'm reading the first sentence of your reply as meaning to say that countries with large federations the national federation can issue 8th dan and above?

    Apologies if i wasn't clear, but i guess what i wanted to know was if the IJF still issues the junior dan grade certificates? I know for my NF they did in the past - I have my 2nd dan on an IJF cert.
    There are photos online if you do an image search for “IJF certificate” of ones issued quite recently for the lower dan grades.


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    finarashi

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    Re: IJF Dan

    Post by finarashi on Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:39 pm

    Just to clarify an issue IJF and continental unions can issue their own dan certifications. But this is not common. Typically as described above they validate or certify the dan grade already issued by the national dan committee. Alternatively Kodokan can issue the same certification/validation. Because issuing a dan certification without the national certification can cause lots of political problems and awkwardness IJF and continental unions typically try to avoid their own dan certifications.
    My experience has been that even in the straigth forward cases it takes more than a year for the validation.


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    cokiee

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    Re: IJF Dan

    Post by cokiee on Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:07 am

    Jonesy wrote:
    cokiee wrote:Thanks! I'm reading the first sentence of your reply as meaning to say that countries with large federations the national federation can issue 8th dan and above?

    Apologies if i wasn't clear, but i guess what i wanted to know was if the IJF still issues the junior dan grade certificates? I know for my NF they did in the past - I have my 2nd dan on an IJF cert.
    There are photos online if you do an image search for “IJF certificate” of ones issued quite recently for the lower dan grades.

    finarashi wrote:Just to clarify an issue IJF and continental unions can issue their own dan certifications. But this is not common. Typically as described above they validate or certify the dan grade already issued by the national dan committee. Alternatively Kodokan can issue the same certification/validation. Because issuing a dan certification without the national certification can cause lots of political problems and awkwardness IJF and continental unions typically try to avoid their own dan certifications.
    My experience has been that even in the straigth forward cases it takes more than a year for the validation.

    Thank you - that seems to imply (with a bit of conflicting information here? Not sure if i'm reading everyone's responses correctly) that the IJF does still issue lower dan certs. The one I am talking about is similar to the one shown here: IJF Cert sample, although this one looks like the 'san' was superimposed; on my nidan it was also written as '2nd'.

    still a bit confused tbh.
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    Jonesy

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    Re: IJF Dan

    Post by Jonesy on Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:01 am

    cokiee wrote:
    Jonesy wrote:
    cokiee wrote:Thanks! I'm reading the first sentence of your reply as meaning to say that countries with large federations the national federation can issue 8th dan and above?

    Apologies if i wasn't clear, but i guess what i wanted to know was if the IJF still issues the junior dan grade certificates? I know for my NF they did in the past - I have my 2nd dan on an IJF cert.
    There are photos online if you do an image search for “IJF certificate” of ones issued quite recently for the lower dan grades.

    finarashi wrote:Just to clarify an issue IJF and continental unions can issue their own dan certifications. But this is not common. Typically as described above they validate or certify the dan grade already issued by the national dan committee. Alternatively Kodokan can issue the same certification/validation. Because issuing a dan certification without the national certification can cause lots of political problems and awkwardness IJF and continental unions typically try to avoid their own dan certifications.
    My experience has been that even in the straigth forward cases it takes more than a year for the validation.

    Thank you - that seems to imply (with a bit of conflicting information here? Not sure if i'm reading everyone's responses correctly) that the IJF does still issue lower dan certs. The one I am talking about is similar to the one shown here: IJF Cert sample, although this one looks like the 'san' was superimposed; on my nidan it was also written as '2nd'.

    still a bit confused tbh.

    I understand that for the lower dan ranks, “blank” presigned certificates were send to the US national federation, and the award receiver’s name added separately. https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Judo/Athletes/Veterans/Rank-Certificates


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    finarashi

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    Re: IJF Dan

    Post by finarashi on Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:03 pm

    Sorry for all confusion. IJF is the governing body. IJF, if you mean the executive committee decides only 9th and 10th Dan awarding. In general from IJF statutes:
    ---------
    Article 24 - Grades and “dan” ranks

    24.1 Official recognition of grades
    The IJF officially recognizes only those grades and “dan” ranks which are awarded by the Member National Federations to their own members, to the exclusion of all others. A National Federation may not award a grade and/or a “dan” rank to a member of another Member National Federation or of the nationality of this Federation without the written agreement of that Federation. Any grade or “dan” rank awarded without this agreement will not be validated by the IJF. Each Member National Federation is in charge of representing the IJF for the purpose of ensuring compliance with International regulations on grades and “dan” ranks throughout its national territory.

    24.2 Grade diplomas
    IJF grades and “dan” ranks shall be awarded by the President of the Continental Union where the student originates from.

    24.3 Amount of Fees
    The amount of fees paid for awarding of grade and “dan” diplomas and for ID Cards shall be set by the EC.

    24.4 Application procedure
    The awarding of IJF grades and “dan” ranks shall be performed according to the procedure validated by the EC. From the 1st to the 6th dan, ranks shall be awarded under the responsibility of Member National Federations. The 7th dan shall be awarded upon the proposal of Member National Federations by the Executive Committees of the Continental Unions, after the opinion of the Continental Grade and “dan” rank Director is given. As of the 8th dan, Ranks shall be awarded by the EC upon the proposal of Member National Federations and after the opinion of the Continental Unions has been given, as well as the opinion of the Grade and “dan” rank Commission of the IJF.
    -------------

    So yes IJF (via Continental union) can award directly a grade, but this is an exception rather than the rule and currently they are trying to avoid this. Currently the National Committee under National Federation awards the ranks 1st to 6th Dan and IJF just recognizes the rank without any paperwork. For 7th and 8th you get first your grade from your National Committee under National Federation and if you so desire you send paperwork to continental Union which then gives you a written certificate. For 9th and 10th the procedure is the same but with IJF.

    My understanding is that if you want to get a certificate from IJF for lower than 7th, then you need a written letter from your National Federation chairman explaining why the situation is complex and someone needs a certificate from IJF. This means in practice that there is no operating body yet that can give grades.


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    NBK

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    Re: IJF Dan

    Post by NBK on Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:55 am

    it sounds like you suspect a fraud - why don't you just post a scan of it if you can? You can cover the name for privacy purposes.

    I've seen several such frauds. There are some pretty astonishing self promoters who have a string of them.

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