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    Canon of Judo - Mifune book (de ashi barai)

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    lperro

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    Canon of Judo - Mifune book (de ashi barai)

    Post by lperro on Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:50 am

    Hello everybody,
    i finally found a copy of this book and I was very excited to read the teachings of this legendarian master.
    I found the historical and philosophical part interesting but when i started reading the technical part (that is the largest part of the book) i found my self very disappointed. Please have a look at the first tech described (de ashi barai).


    https://photos.app.goo.gl/XEZ69GLybWzsbinv2

    The author says that, starting from both in migi shizen tai, you should unbalance the opponent in the LEFT REAR CORNER corner in order to make him advance his right foot.
    ?!?!

    I really don't understand how this should be done.
    If anybody could help that would be very appreciated.
    Thanks in advance
    LP
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    noboru

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    Re: Canon of Judo - Mifune book (de ashi barai)

    Post by noboru on Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:21 pm

    Hello, I don't know exactly as you from this description.
    Please look at this old release of Mifunes book. There is used little bit other words in deashi barai explanation and there is more pictures. Look at the page 52 in pdf
    https://ironwolf008.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/canon-of-judo-by-k-mifune.pdf
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    noboru

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    explanation from Arima Sumimoto's book from year 1905

    Post by noboru on Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:41 pm

    I tried to look at older sources - here is short but nice explanation from Arima Sumimoto's book from year 1905.


    Nice is explanation for creating situation for deashi-barai: "If your antagonist responds to your tsuri-komi by putting forward ..."

    lperro

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    Re: Canon of Judo - Mifune book (de ashi barai)

    Post by lperro on Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:57 am

    Thanks noboru!
    But the problem is the direction of kuzushi that doesn't make any sense to me at all.
    If I unbalance him in the REAR LEFT corner why should he ADVANCE his right foot as a reaction?

    Please help me understanding this.

    LP

    lperro

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    Re: Canon of Judo - Mifune book (de ashi barai)

    Post by lperro on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:26 am

    maybe it could be something like that?
    https://youtu.be/tZFMg5OJTxA?t=2m19s

    (but attacking the opposite angle, so with an additional step by uke?)
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    noboru

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    Re: Canon of Judo - Mifune book (de ashi barai)

    Post by noboru on Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:35 pm

    May be it is the reason. Make kuszushi to rear left corner for reaction of Uke for next his moving forward or make movement for his balance .

    I looked to book Kodokan nage waza from Toshiro Daigo. There is similar description




    Here are footage from official old Kodokan Nagewaza video.There are lot of ways how make / how make ukes rection / creating situation for deashi barai. Look at the first way. There is kihon.


    May be it helps you, thank you for this question. I learnt little bit too. I have thema for my today judo practice - deasi barai no renshu :-) May be after keiko it will be bright for me too.
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    Jihef

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    Re: Canon of Judo - Mifune book (de ashi barai)

    Post by Jihef on Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:09 pm

    lperro wrote: The author says that, starting from both in migi shizen tai, you should unbalance the opponent in the LEFT REAR CORNER corner in order to make him advance his right foot.
    ?!?!

    I really don't understand how this should be done.
    If anybody could help that would be very appreciated.
    Hello, one way you can look at this is :
    if you make him feel like you want to unbalance him to his rear left corner, he might react, to gain his balance back, by advancing to the right.
    To me, it sounds like a classic “action-reaction” setup.

    My 2 cents.


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    lperro

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    Re: Canon of Judo - Mifune book (de ashi barai)

    Post by lperro on Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:23 am

    Thanks noboru! And thanks Jihef too. Now it starts to make more sense.
    Now It "translates" to me (not in fluent english but anyway) like this:


    Starting from both in migi shizen tai.
    Break your opponent balance in his left rear corner with both hands (tsurikomi action) to make him react stepping forward with his right foot (1).
    When he tries do make a step with the left foot to re-gain the correct posture, be sure to control him in order to let him make just a small step (the right foot of the opponent should be near but backwards the left foot 2). At this point change the action of the hands to pulling and bla bla bla..


    What you think? I will try this afternoon
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    sodo

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    Re: Canon of Judo - Mifune book (de ashi barai)

    Post by sodo on Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:25 am

    Don't forget, these books were written a very long time ago and the quality of translation was not the best and probably made by somebody that had no idea about judo.

    I assume written description is of a reatreating De Ashi Barai and by davancing the foot they are referring to the direction of movemet i.e. backwards, this would make sense.

    atb

    sodo




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    Y-Chromosome

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    Re: Canon of Judo - Mifune book (de ashi barai)

    Post by Y-Chromosome on Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:18 am

    sodo wrote:Don't forget, these books were written a very long time ago and the quality of translation was not the best and probably made by somebody that had no idea about judo.

    I assume written description is of a reatreating De Ashi Barai and by davancing the foot they are referring to the direction of movemet i.e. backwards, this would make sense.

    atb

    sodo


    Looking at both versions I think there are some editorial and some translation problems with the technique description.
    Generally speaking one can apply deashi moving forward or backward. When moving forward you push (not really unbalancing per se) uke so he steps back on his left foot which leaves his right foot forward and exposed. As you maintain the pressure and uke begins to lift their right foot, you have an opportunity to sweep.
    I think this is what the author was trying to describe. Not that uke advances their right foot but that the right foot is left in the advanced position as a result of the left foot being withdrawn.
    This is when it gets weird. The description of the finish where tori opens to the right to clear a path when sweeping with the left foot is really only necessary when applying deashi moving backwards, not forward as described.
    Neither do the sequence of photos seem to follow. I suspect that two different applications of deashi and two different photo sequences have been badly translated into English and then badly edited into a single description.
    I would not set my hopes too high on learning to do judo like Mifune by reading this book.
    Good judo comes in the dojo by feeling the motion and mass and momentum. Books can add some context and information but one doesn't learn judo by poring over dusty old volumes of badly edited mistranslations.
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    Jonesy

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    Re: Canon of Judo - Mifune book (de ashi barai)

    Post by Jonesy on Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:15 am

    The reprint of Canon of Judo, had the English cleaned up.


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    noboru

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    Re: Canon of Judo - Mifune book (de ashi barai)

    Post by noboru on Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:25 pm

    https://youtu.be/sMeitjmVI0U?t=83



    Time 1:22 nice deashi barai throw in Gran Slam Tokio 2017 during movin forward.

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