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    Is what as known as the "North South Choke" in BJJ legal in Judo ?

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    Gus

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    Is what as known as the "North South Choke" in BJJ legal in Judo ?

    Post by Gus on Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:31 am

    According to wikipedia this is very similar to Kuzure kami shiho gatame :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North%E2%80%93south_choke

    except its not because your arm goes over the oppnents neck not under their armpit.

    This is it :



    you have your hands linked and squeeze the opponent sneck with the inside of your elbow joint like a pair of scissors.
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    Fritz

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    Re: Is what as known as the "North South Choke" in BJJ legal in Judo ?

    Post by Fritz on Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:09 am

    Why it should not be allowed?
    Hadaka-Jime (with similar principle)  also is allowed  ...

    But maybe you find out, that this choke is not so easy to apply because of the relatively stiff fabric of the judo jacket ...


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    Y-Chromosome

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    Re: Is what as known as the "North South Choke" in BJJ legal in Judo ?

    Post by Y-Chromosome on Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:05 am

    Stiffness of the gi is not really a factor.

    I've tried it and it's a bit tricky to pull off if you're not used to it.
    I don't think it's illegal as it doesn't really breach any of the rules concerning chokes.

    I think the main reasons you don't see it much in judo are as follows:
    Not a standard Kodokan choke, so doesn't automatically get taught.
    Would usually be applied as a follow-on to Kami-shiho-gatame, but there is little incentive to make the transition under judo rules because 1. You are already less than 20 seconds away from winning; and 2. You need to relax your control on the body to focus on the choke which can result in an escape.

    I think very few competitors would give up a solid Kami-shiho to attempt this choke, especially on a strong opponent. In BJJ there's an incentive because you can't win with a pin, so you need to keep working for some sort of sub.

    I visited a local BJJ club for kicks and this was the instructor's lesson of the night.

    In randori (or sparring I guess) I got paired with a 280 lb beast (maybe 300?... huge guy) and I managed to get him into kami-shiho. From there I thought I'd give this choke a try since we'd just worked on it. As I shifted to the choke position, he immediately rolled me and I was thoroughly stuck.

    I'd have to work this one a lot in randori before I'd attempt in a competition. I would need to have it honed to the point, where I could get a tap within a second or two, with little or no risk of an escape or reversal, otherwise I'd have no reason to give up the kami shiho.

    Gus

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    Re: Is what as known as the "North South Choke" in BJJ legal in Judo ?

    Post by Gus on Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:19 pm

    Fritz wrote:Why it should not be allowed?
    Hadaka-Jime (with similar principle)  also is allowed  ...

    But maybe you find out, that this choke is not so easy to apply because of the relatively stiff fabric of the judo jacket ...

    I am a Judoka and only do BJJ occasionally. I do it all the time in Randori (Ive been doing Judo several times a week about 12 years and BJJ sporadically for about 10). I get it very often in Randori - even with the thick giis - in fact its become one of my Tokui Waza in Ne waza - but I went to another club the other day and the instructor asked me if I was sure it was legal - I guess he was just unfamiliar with it. So yeah, Im just checking !


    Last edited by Gus on Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:28 pm; edited 3 times in total

    Gus

    Posts : 142
    Join date : 2013-03-01

    Re: Is what as known as the "North South Choke" in BJJ legal in Judo ?

    Post by Gus on Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:23 pm

    Y-Chromosome wrote:
    I'd have to work this one a lot in randori before I'd attempt in a competition.  I would need to have it honed to the point, where I could get a tap within a second or two, with little or no risk of an escape or reversal, otherwise I'd have no reason to give up the kami shiho.

    This is true - I do it all the time in Randori and rarely do a straight Kami Shiho. However in competition the other day I just managed to floor a beast much like the one you describe Smile and had the option of pinning the writhing monstrosity with Kami Shiho or the NS choke - I took the safe option and chose the Kami Shiho for the Ippon.
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    Fritz

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    Re: Is what as known as the "North South Choke" in BJJ legal in Judo ?

    Post by Fritz on Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:32 pm

    Gus wrote:
    Fritz wrote:Why it should not be allowed?
    Hadaka-Jime (with similar principle)  also is allowed  ...

    But maybe you find out, that this choke is not so easy to apply because of the relatively stiff fabric of the judo jacket ...

    I am a Judoka and only do BJJ occasionally. I do it all the time in Randori (Ive been doing Judo several times a week about 12 years and BJJ sporadically for about 10). I get it very often in Randori - even with the thick giis - in fact its become one of my Tokui Waza in Ne waza   - but I went to another club the other day and the instructor asked me if I was sure it was legal - I guess he was just unfamiliar with it. So yeah, Im just checking !
    Ok, thats sounds well, maybe in my case its the fear of loosing control what me hinders to apply this choke correctly...


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