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    medo

    Posts : 276
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Demo-jitsu

    Post by medo on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:03 am

    hedgehogey wrote:If the throat were a "lethal" area to attack we'd never be able to do shime waza.

    I believe a punch, finger jab, or knife hand, is somewhat dangerous to the wind pipe. Some of the the old kungfu master, revenge type films the guy manages to rip the throat out affraid possible with strong grip I would have thought.

    hedgehogey

    Posts : 103
    Join date : 2012-12-30

    Re: Demo-jitsu

    Post by hedgehogey on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:04 am

    Yes, wuxia flics are completely relevant here.

    Hanon

    Posts : 537
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Demo-jitsu

    Post by Hanon on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:11 am

    hedgehogey wrote:Yes, wuxia flics are completely relevant here.

    Like wise, shime waza are not atemi waza. The affect on the body of uke is different and the application by tori is different. Comparing apples with oranges.

    Mike


    Last edited by Hanon on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:12 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)


    _________________
    WARNING. I write as a pupil of judo. what I write should be researched by the reader and not accepted as in any way factual or correct.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking.

    hedgehogey

    Posts : 103
    Join date : 2012-12-30

    Re: Demo-jitsu

    Post by hedgehogey on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:22 am

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    DCS

    Posts : 28
    Join date : 2013-02-07
    Age : 52
    Location : Spain

    Re: Demo-jitsu

    Post by DCS on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:23 am

    medo wrote:... the guy manages to rip the throat out affraid possible with strong grip I would have thought.

    Patrick Swayze approves.


    DougNZ

    Posts : 403
    Join date : 2013-01-28

    Re: Demo-jitsu

    Post by DougNZ on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:53 pm

    Dear Mike

    I do enjoy the process of our coming to a common understanding on various points!

    First of all, we condition our groins with base ball bats! No, really, no one particularly likes to cop one in the ghoolies! We wear groin guards during training (and mouth guards when sparring) and our strikes are light contact. The beauty about allowing as much of the body to be a target is that one soon learns how to defend it properly. In fact, just last night we were commenting on how often our body instinctively anticipates a groin strike (hand, knee or foot) and swivels to put a thigh in the way.

    In terms of eyes-closed training, we often grapple or groundfight with eyes closed. It's a good way of improving sensitivity and allowing us to better blend with what our uke is doing in order to gain or maintain control.

    As if us blokes are not sensitive enough!

    Incidentally, the throat is a good target. First, it is as close to shoulder height as a decent target can get, which means we have maximum reach when striking to the throat. Secondly, contrary to what you may expect, a person hit in the throat bends forward (which allows easier secondary head shots or grappling entry). I must qualify by saying I have never punched someone in the throat in anger but my teacher has on a number of occasions and has reported the same response.

    Does that clarify?

    Hanon wrote:
    DougNZ wrote:That said, we still go hammer-and-tongs every now and again. And, yes, we have some rules; we don't try to maim or kill our dojo mates, so strikes, locks and throws are not delivered full force. But on a day-to-day basis the groin and throat, for example, are fair game.
    ...

    Hi DougNZ,

    I am trying to understand your points here. Having a problem with the following..

    "We don't try to maim or kill our dojo mates".." But on a day-to-day basis the groin and throat, for example, are fair game".

    I think that is a contradiction in terms... Shocked

    I have no idea how sensitive your groin and throat are but mine don't take at all kindly to any form of attack even gentle randori type attacks? affraid Add to that you mention you randori sometimes blind and I become totally baffled?

    There are area's of the body and you mention two, that are kyoshu. One is extremely painful the other is lethal .

    Can you give examples of how you practice?

    Thanks for any clarification you can make.

    Regards,

    Mike


    DougNZ

    Posts : 403
    Join date : 2013-01-28

    Re: Demo-jitsu

    Post by DougNZ on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:57 pm

    DCS wrote:
    medo wrote:... the guy manages to rip the throat out affraid possible with strong grip I would have thought.

    Patrick Swayze approves.

    Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse immediately sprang to my mind, too!

    I love Sam Elliot's line after he has just stomped some guys knee: he drawls something like "Damn, that hurts, don't it?" as the guy crumples to the ground.
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    Tai-Jutsu

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2013-09-19
    Location : Woodbridge,Va. USA

    Re: Demo-jitsu

    Post by Tai-Jutsu on Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:53 am

    Boy there is a lot of mudslinging, half truths and egos wrapped up into the egos of others on this thread.

    I love listening to a bunch of guys, who do an art derived from Ju Jutsu, dump all over it. One wonders if it's indeed seeing bad Ju Jutsu live or that their own Gosen Jutsu waza suck so much and put such little time and understanding into it?

    (Like the countless former TKD folks who come to class and tell me joint locks dont work, right before I make them scream with one. Same as jerks who break into a horsestance after breathing hard and tell you their Ki will prevent you from throwing them.)

    It's just as funny as listening to a martial artist who does no form of sparring or free practice tell you how he can rip out a throat, under stress.

    Yes there are some clownish stuff in the Ju Jutsu World, just as there are some Judoka ,even high level practicioners of their art and sport have been horribly beaten on the street because they, for whatever reason never developed a few of the differences between doing Randori or Shai and a situation where that right natural posture and gripping his shirt gets you a shin in the balls or leaning over gets a good uppercut or you just never saw that damn knife.

    So many of thes arguments are from one extreme to antoher and the examples are usually one extreme to another.

    Many times the best approach, the closer truth is somewhere in between.

    I am a Martial artist first, Ju Jutsuka 2nd, an Arnisado 3rd and I love elements form Judo and many rts and they have all helpd me in life and times when things got physical.

    Since we founded our school 4 years ago (from breaking off from one that was once pretty realistic but that morphed into "Grab my wrist' as the morm and not as a part of a larger whole, that included alot of Randori and IA drills.) we have had 5 outside self defense/fight in the line of duty situations envolving some of our students and 1 of my own.

    In 2 of them the other guy went to the hospital, In 1 they aggressor got knocked out on his feet with an elbow sheild and "cape" and the hip motion of a Osoto Gari varient. In each case our guy was fine.

    In 2 of them a low level of force was all that was required to convence the aggressor that anymore on their part was going to be detrimental to them. No one needed to be Ogoshied into the ground or the dreaded Mongolian Liver Touch used upon. ;-)

    Some of what was used is some of what is being made fun of here.

    Granted, we drill waza, we do Kata, the older, 2 or more man version of that, we apply documented viloelnt situations in put ourselves in it and wargme it. We put on gloves and Box, we put on a few more pads and allow feet, elbows, knees and headbutts along with joint locks, throws and groundwork. We grip up and grapple standing and on the ground. Not as much as in Judo dojo but it suits our needs and our broad mission.

    You all think Kano would be a little dissappointed by some of the attitudes here? And I say that admitting past idocy on the internet.

    Come on, are you all in the art and sport that I most encourage my children to study next to our's?

    I do that because of all that Judo can build and, yes give back to Ju Jutsu. I do it for all the bennifits that have nothing to do with fighting.

    My favorite historical MA figure is Don F. Draeger and he studied Judo and many other arts, he went to war, he knew combat on many levels and he participated in many of the same kind of training that is dumped on in this thread and he was probably a better Judoka than 95% of those on this site.

    So while many get in their camps and load the Bullshit Trebuches, I'm going to start a camp that has room for both views coming together.

    Long term goal for the school I co-run is to get some Judo classes, BJJ classes and Combatives classes on the scheadule as well. People can spit but I'm looking to work with Judo Sensei and BJJ Profesors with open minds and we will all be better for it.
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    Tai-Jutsu

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2013-09-19
    Location : Woodbridge,Va. USA

    Re: Demo-jitsu

    Post by Tai-Jutsu on Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:24 pm

    DougNZ wrote:
    DCS wrote:
    medo wrote:... the guy manages to rip the throat out :affraid:possible with strong grip I would have thought.
    Patrick Swayze approves.
    Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse immediately sprang to my mind, too!

    I love Sam Elliot's line after he has just stomped some guys knee: he drawls something like "Damn, that hurts, don't it?" as the guy crumples to the ground.
    This on the other hand is funny!lol! 

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