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    Hanon

    Posts : 537
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Forum administration

    Post by Hanon on Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:57 am

    Kano Jigoro founded judo if we don't like what he founded then we are free to leave it alone and do something else.

    This forum was founded by Dew who then passed it onto Carlo and the other admins. If we don't like how they administrate then we are free to leave. There is no forced membership here.

    Why is it no sooner judoka join a group, of any sorts, they simply have to try and change it?

    Practicing judo and posting here is a privilege not ones right by some Royal decree. If one doesn't like how this forum is organised then go make your own or stay away.

    Reason I write this is its becoming boring to see threads being derailed by what the admins do or how some poster thinks this forum should be run.

    I have ad questions to ask so I send them a PM. I don't start to question such things in threads. Failing that I suggest a dissatisfied poster bring there points here to the appropriate section as I have done.

    Lets not screw up the second chance of holding a judo forum.

    Mike


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    WARNING. I write as a pupil of judo. what I write should be researched by the reader and not accepted as in any way factual or correct.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking.
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    sodo

    Posts : 168
    Join date : 2013-01-11
    Location : Europe

    Re: Forum administration

    Post by sodo on Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:18 am

    Hi Mike,

    of course I am free to leave but I still think that you should try an change things first before throwing in the towel silent

    HH und my posts were censored for no real reason except that maybe one or two people felt nervous, the content of neither post contained bad language or personal insults, the problem is that readers in the future will come along and ask wtf did these guys write that needed to be censored Question

    The answer is nothing Mad but that will only lead to speculation as is with the letter from Ryan Hall,

    What did he write? why was it deleted and by whom? who is being protected? what do they have to hide? etc..etc... and this goes on.

    TBH I have been involved with local, club and business politics for a long time, it p/sses me off but I have learnt that if you want to stop discussion destroy the evidence COMPLETELY, leaving the framework of the post there but deletingthe content and THEN writting the part about personal insults is just begging for speculation, tbh I am glad that the admins/mods are not experts in covering up Very Happy

    You are right that this is a new forum and we have a new chance to avoid the mistakes of JF but I for one believe that some of the problems in the past were very selective censorship of posts. I hope that this does not happen here.

    atb
    sodo



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    wdax

    Posts : 176
    Join date : 2013-01-22

    Re: Forum administration

    Post by wdax on Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:44 am

    Please take it easy..... But I understand both of you.

    The moderators need to make their experiences. My advice would be to delete an unapproptiate post instand of deleting just a part of it. But before, the posters should receive a PM to give them a chance to edit their posts. Admin editing should be a no go, because of the reasons Sodo wrote above.

    Maybe moderators and Admins could have more an eye on threads that run off-topic.
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    Okazi

    Posts : 37
    Join date : 2013-01-08
    Location : Canada

    Re: Forum administration

    Post by Okazi on Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:52 am

    sodo wrote:
    HH und my posts were censored for no real reason except that maybe one or two people felt nervous, the content of neither post contained bad language or personal insults, the problem is that readers in the future will come along and ask wtf did these guys write that needed to be censored Question


    I feel very uncomfortable posting this but I feel it is the right thing to do. If memory serves me correctly (and that is all I have because all physical evidence has been destroyed...) Hanon was the "Ryan Hall" thread's most vocal opponent before it was vaporized...

    Brothers and sisters, it has been an honor. If I happen to "fall down the stairs" or end up in a "car accident" then please continue to fight the good fight...lol


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    sodo

    Posts : 168
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    Re: Forum administration

    Post by sodo on Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:56 am

    wdax wrote:Please take it easy..... But I understand both of you.

    Hi Wolfgang,

    Typical problem with inet fora, alot more can be read into a post than was intended, both Mike and I are cool and understand each other, the discussion is for the benefit of the forum and in which direction we should be going. I for one do not like the premtive deletiing of posts to avoid possible problems that do not exist but i am not about to punch anybody on the nose that disagrees with Very Happy

    atb

    sodo


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    Hanon

    Posts : 537
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Forum administration

    Post by Hanon on Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:13 am

    Okazi wrote:
    sodo wrote:
    HH und my posts were censored for no real reason except that maybe one or two people felt nervous, the content of neither post contained bad language or personal insults, the problem is that readers in the future will come along and ask wtf did these guys write that needed to be censored Question


    I feel very uncomfortable posting this but I feel it is the right thing to do. If memory serves me correctly (and that is all I have because all physical evidence has been destroyed...) Hanon was the "Ryan Hall" thread's most vocal opponent before it was vaporized...

    Brothers and sisters, it has been an honor. If I happen to "fall down the stairs" or end up in a "car accident" then please continue to fight the good fight...lol

    ME, I have never heard of Ryan Hall???? I have never posted on a thread about Ryan Hall and to the best of my knowledge have never even seen one.!

    I get your point though. Lets take a pop at Hanon....Are you certain you want to do that? If so, why?


    _________________
    WARNING. I write as a pupil of judo. what I write should be researched by the reader and not accepted as in any way factual or correct.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking.

    Hanon

    Posts : 537
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Forum administration

    Post by Hanon on Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:17 am

    sodo wrote:Hi Mike,

    of course I am free to leave but I still think that you should try an change things first before throwing in the towel silent

    HH und my posts were censored for no real reason except that maybe one or two people felt nervous, the content of neither post contained bad language or personal insults, the problem is that readers in the future will come along and ask wtf did these guys write that needed to be censored Question

    The answer is nothing Mad but that will only lead to speculation as is with the letter from Ryan Hall,

    What did he write? why was it deleted and by whom? who is being protected? what do they have to hide? etc..etc... and this goes on.

    TBH I have been involved with local, club and business politics for a long time, it p/sses me off but I have learnt that if you want to stop discussion destroy the evidence COMPLETELY, leaving the framework of the post there but deletingthe content and THEN writting the part about personal insults is just begging for speculation, tbh I am glad that the admins/mods are not experts in covering up Very Happy

    You are right that this is a new forum and we have a new chance to avoid the mistakes of JF but I for one believe that some of the problems in the past were very selective censorship of posts. I hope that this does not happen here.

    atb
    sodo


    If my post was aimed at you I would write to you face to face and make my point known to your face. I have zero problems with you as a poster. I do think you a tad heavy on times and not afraid of getting stuck in and that is not always the best way to resolve a situation however my friend please do not think I am writing about any individual, I write in the general and not of the particular.

    You, above all others, should know that!

    Mike


    _________________
    WARNING. I write as a pupil of judo. what I write should be researched by the reader and not accepted as in any way factual or correct.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking.
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    Okazi

    Posts : 37
    Join date : 2013-01-08
    Location : Canada

    Re: Forum administration

    Post by Okazi on Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:36 am

    Hanon wrote:
    Okazi wrote:
    sodo wrote:
    HH und my posts were censored for no real reason except that maybe one or two people felt nervous, the content of neither post contained bad language or personal insults, the problem is that readers in the future will come along and ask wtf did these guys write that needed to be censored Question


    I feel very uncomfortable posting this but I feel it is the right thing to do. If memory serves me correctly (and that is all I have because all physical evidence has been destroyed...) Hanon was the "Ryan Hall" thread's most vocal opponent before it was vaporized...

    Brothers and sisters, it has been an honor. If I happen to "fall down the stairs" or end up in a "car accident" then please continue to fight the good fight...lol

    ME, I have never heard of Ryan Hall???? I have never posted on a thread about Ryan Hall and to the best of my knowledge have never even seen one.!

    I get your point though. Lets take a pop at Hanon....Are you certain you want to do that? If so, why?

    hmm, I distinctly recall you posting in a thread regarding "Ryan Hall's Open Letter to the Martial Arts Community" sometime in January, before the whole thread was vaporized. I distinctly recall you stating: that you thought it was a touchy subject, that ours is a young judo forum and that there could be consequences to attracting negative attention, etc.

    I could easily have quoted exactly what I think you said, but as the thread no longer exists I cannot. Such is life in an ever changing forum. You post something one day, it's gone or modified another. What can you do? I suppose you could leave...or have a discussion on the validity of censorship on a Judo Forum...What to do?


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    Nothing Okazi posts on this forum is advice. Got it? Good. Carry on.
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    sodo

    Posts : 168
    Join date : 2013-01-11
    Location : Europe

    Re: Forum administration

    Post by sodo on Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:46 am

    Hanon wrote:
    If my post was aimed at you I would write to you face to face and make my point known to your face. I have zero problems with you as a poster. I do think you a tad heavy on times and not afraid of getting stuck in and that is not always the best way to resolve a situation however my friend please do not think I am writing about any individual, I write in the general and not of the particular.

    You, above all others, should know that!

    Mike

    Hi Mike,

    as I wrote to Wolfgang, I am not taking anything personally, I just assumed that we were taking our discussion onto the forum Cool It's all cool by me. I think these are important points to clear up for the future and belong together with the thread what do we want from the forum. I personally do not want to see coverups and posts deleted on suspicion Evil or Very Mad


    JF was often criticised for appearing to white wash, obviously the otherside of the coin are the extreme reactions to the PTN thread. I believe that the the forum shoul more or less be self controling, if that is even possible?

    There are many controversial themes that can and should be discussed f.e. self Grading of high dangrades, abuse in judo etc....

    I also do not like that fact that HH has been effectively gagged when he has infact not done anything wrong yet (Hey, can you believe this I am actually sticking up for that *@€)!"§ Very Happy )

    atb

    sodo



    Last edited by sodo on Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:30 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Hanon

    Posts : 537
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Forum administration

    Post by Hanon on Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:24 am

    Okazi wrote:
    Hanon wrote:
    Okazi wrote:
    sodo wrote:
    HH und my posts were censored for no real reason except that maybe one or two people felt nervous, the content of neither post contained bad language or personal insults, the problem is that readers in the future will come along and ask wtf did these guys write that needed to be censored Question


    I feel very uncomfortable posting this but I feel it is the right thing to do. If memory serves me correctly (and that is all I have because all physical evidence has been destroyed...) Hanon was the "Ryan Hall" thread's most vocal opponent before it was vaporized...

    Brothers and sisters, it has been an honor. If I happen to "fall down the stairs" or end up in a "car accident" then please continue to fight the good fight...lol

    ME, I have never heard of Ryan Hall???? I have never posted on a thread about Ryan Hall and to the best of my knowledge have never even seen one.!

    I get your point though. Lets take a pop at Hanon....Are you certain you want to do that? If so, why?

    hmm, I distinctly recall you posting in a thread regarding "Ryan Hall's Open Letter to the Martial Arts Community" sometime in January, before the whole thread was vaporized. I distinctly recall you stating: that you thought it was a touchy subject, that ours is a young judo forum and that there could be consequences to attracting negative attention, etc.

    I could easily have quoted exactly what I think you said, but as the thread no longer exists I cannot. Such is life in an ever changing forum. You post something one day, it's gone or modified another. What can you do? I suppose you could leave...or have a discussion on the validity of censorship on a Judo Forum...What to do?

    Is this the chap who was disqualified at the Olympics over something allegedly to do with pot? If so I only saw of that thread on the old JF and refused to comment on yet another judge, jury and hanging by forum.
    I do not know the circumstances the Olympian was accused or caught? I seem to recall him accepting he had erred and for that he earned points in my book and provided he admitted what he had or had not done, owned his alleged error AND done what he humanly could to repair any damage caused I am 100% in favour of giving him another chance to show just how well he has learned his lesson.
    Now had I written that on the old JF there would have been people building a gallows yet again for me as I spoke up for the cause of humanity and forgiveness.

    I do not recall that being debated here though?

    The comments you quote as being mine do sound like something I would write though? Maybe you correct and I am in the wrong? I truly do not recall the thread under discussion here? Why would I lie?

    One more point how would this detract from what I wrote in my opening post regarding the subject of derailing threads about how or what the administration does or doesn't do?

    Mike


    _________________
    WARNING. I write as a pupil of judo. what I write should be researched by the reader and not accepted as in any way factual or correct.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking.

    Hanon

    Posts : 537
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Forum administration

    Post by Hanon on Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:33 am

    sodo wrote:
    Hanon wrote:
    If my post was aimed at you I would write to you face to face and make my point known to your face. I have zero problems with you as a poster. I do think you a tad heavy on times and not afraid of getting stuck in and that is not always the best way to resolve a situation however my friend please do not think I am writing about any individual, I write in the general and not of the particular.

    You, above all others, should know that!

    Mike

    Hi Mike,

    as I wrote to Wolfgang, I am not taking anything personally, I just assumed that we were taking our discussion onto the forum Cool It's all cool by me. I think these are important points to clear up for the future and belong together with the thread what do we want from the forum. I personally do not want to see coverups and posts deleted on suspicion Evil or Very Mad


    JF was often criticised for appearing to white wash, obviously the otherside of the coin are the extreme reactions to the PTN thread. I believe that the the forum shoul more or less be self controling, if that is even possible?

    There are many controversial themes that can and should be discussed f.e. self Grading of high dangrades, abuse in judo etc....

    I also do not like that fact that HH has been effectively gagged when he has infact not done anything wrong yet (He can you believe this I am actually sticking up for that *@€)!"§ Very Happy )

    atb

    sodo


    Sodo my old mate get real " I believe that the forum should more or less be self controlling, if that is even possible?"
    There is as much chance of that as there are me winning a gold at the next Olympics.

    There has to be moderators working on a judo forum.
    There has to be rules.

    Since when has the judo world needed outside forces to corrupt and destroy it, we have all the experts in the world we need to do that from within our own ranks. Judo has no greater enemy than those who practice it.

    All we as judoka need is a mirror to have a darn good fight! Two judoka together and we have a tournament!

    Mike


    _________________
    WARNING. I write as a pupil of judo. what I write should be researched by the reader and not accepted as in any way factual or correct.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking.
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    Okazi

    Posts : 37
    Join date : 2013-01-08
    Location : Canada

    Re: Forum administration

    Post by Okazi on Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:54 am

    Hanon wrote:
    Okazi wrote:
    Hanon wrote:
    Okazi wrote:
    sodo wrote:
    HH und my posts were censored for no real reason except that maybe one or two people felt nervous, the content of neither post contained bad language or personal insults, the problem is that readers in the future will come along and ask wtf did these guys write that needed to be censored Question


    I feel very uncomfortable posting this but I feel it is the right thing to do. If memory serves me correctly (and that is all I have because all physical evidence has been destroyed...) Hanon was the "Ryan Hall" thread's most vocal opponent before it was vaporized...

    Brothers and sisters, it has been an honor. If I happen to "fall down the stairs" or end up in a "car accident" then please continue to fight the good fight...lol

    ME, I have never heard of Ryan Hall???? I have never posted on a thread about Ryan Hall and to the best of my knowledge have never even seen one.!

    I get your point though. Lets take a pop at Hanon....Are you certain you want to do that? If so, why?

    hmm, I distinctly recall you posting in a thread regarding "Ryan Hall's Open Letter to the Martial Arts Community" sometime in January, before the whole thread was vaporized. I distinctly recall you stating: that you thought it was a touchy subject, that ours is a young judo forum and that there could be consequences to attracting negative attention, etc.

    I could easily have quoted exactly what I think you said, but as the thread no longer exists I cannot. Such is life in an ever changing forum. You post something one day, it's gone or modified another. What can you do? I suppose you could leave...or have a discussion on the validity of censorship on a Judo Forum...What to do?

    Is this the chap who was disqualified at the Olympics over something allegedly to do with pot? If so I only saw of that thread on the old JF and refused to comment on yet another judge, jury and hanging by forum.
    I do not know the circumstances the Olympian was accused or caught? I seem to recall him accepting he had erred and for that he earned points in my book and provided he admitted what he had or had not done, owned his alleged error AND done what he humanly could to repair any damage caused I am 100% in favour of giving him another chance to show just how well he has learned his lesson.
    Now had I written that on the old JF there would have been people building a gallows yet again for me as I spoke up for the cause of humanity and forgiveness.

    I do not recall that being debated here though?

    The comments you quote as being mine do sound like something I would write though? Maybe you correct and I am in the wrong? I truly do not recall the thread under discussion here? Why would I lie?

    One more point how would this detract from what I wrote in my opening post regarding the subject of derailing threads about how or what the administration does or doesn't do?

    Mike

    Hanon:

    It has become apparant to me now that you might not have been the poster I was referring to, I sincerely apologize. Genetic Judoka has already dealt with all the points I was going to address here, namely:

    genetic judoka wrote:the Ryan Hall thread was deleted because we as a team made a judgement call that the direction that thread was destined to head in, was not the direction we wanted the forum going when it was still so young.

    I do have some questions regarding O Goshi that I will post shortly. I was hoping that you would be able to shine some light on my issue.

    I suspect that the forum will be leaving the "storming" stage soon... - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuckman's_stages_of_group_development

    Okazi


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    Nothing Okazi posts on this forum is advice. Got it? Good. Carry on.

    Hanon

    Posts : 537
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Forum administration

    Post by Hanon on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:04 pm

    No problems Okazi.

    I just read your post on ogoshi and fear you will not find one aswer to your question as there isn't one there are several. Each throw is based around a principle and depending on the height and size of uke and tori that will differ. It is very important that you do master ogoshi as it is the base for all koshi waza.

    If you don't receive any help let me know. Its a difficult question to answer though.

    Best wishes,

    Mike


    _________________
    WARNING. I write as a pupil of judo. what I write should be researched by the reader and not accepted as in any way factual or correct.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking.
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    seatea

    Posts : 211
    Join date : 2013-01-19
    Location : England.

    Re: Forum administration

    Post by seatea on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:32 pm

    sodo wrote:
    Hanon wrote:
    If my post was aimed at you I would write to you face to face and make my point known to your face. I have zero problems with you as a poster. I do think you a tad heavy on times and not afraid of getting stuck in and that is not always the best way to resolve a situation however my friend please do not think I am writing about any individual, I write in the general and not of the particular.

    You, above all others, should know that!

    Mike



    JF was often criticised for appearing to white wash, obviously the otherside of the coin are the extreme reactions to the PTN thread.

    This is my biggest concern; topics shouldn't be stamped on because some of the posters taking part cross a line.

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