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    Wrestling dropped by IOC

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    tafftaz

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by tafftaz on Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:43 am

    Just seen on the news that India is petitioning other countries to help get wrestling re-instated.
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    nomoremondays

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by nomoremondays on Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:32 pm

    tafftaz wrote:Just seen on the news that India is petitioning other countries to help get wrestling re-instated.

    good for them, medal winners sushil kumar and yogeshwar dutt are heros over there.

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by Guest on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:22 am

    afulldeck wrote:d) Popularity of wrestling is not in question (TV rating are high, participation is high, country involvement high)

    Yesterday I searched to find out how many countries had participated in wrestling in the Olympics. If I recall correctly there were 71 countries (344 total participants) out of 204 countries. For synchronized swimming it was 24 (96 total participants). Clearly the argument about participation is nonsense.

    Judo had 134 countries (388 total participants).
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    Stacey

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by Stacey on Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:07 am

    I'm just not looking forward to the Olympics being just one more golf tournament that's about as exciting to watch as drying paint (which is why I don't watch it, and really don't know many people who do).

    I do hope they get wrestling back in - give the women more time to develop a program, give the college athletes a shot at world recognition, give the Olympics a tie in to the original Olympics (beyond a few foot races and some field events).

    Next thing you know, NASCAR will become an Olympic sport, along with bowling. Nothing against NASCAR (except it, too, is like watching paint dry), but there's no little kid in Harlem sharing the same dream as a kid in Kenya about winning a gold medal in NASCAR.

    Wrestling may not be as available outside the school systems as golf, but it is a younger person's game. Wrestling is also relatively inexpensive for the participant - shoes, a singlet (though they usually practice in shorts and t-shirt these days). How many kids can buy a new set of clubs each year as s/he grows?

    And, let's face it, golf courses? There's not a better use for land, especially in poorer countries or heavily populated countries? Do we really need to ensure a few more medals to wealthy Western countries with lots of golf pros running around?

    Ugh! I'm sorry, but golf v. wrestling? I'll take wrestling any day.
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by Ricebale on Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:56 am

    I've got $10 that says judo will be forced to reduce the number of weight catagories soon enougg to fit the tv schedule better

    gester

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by gester on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:45 pm

    Can we at least have Kata Guruma back?


    Last edited by gester on Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

    Emanuele2

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by Emanuele2 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:18 pm

    Ricebale wrote:I've got $10 that says judo will be forced to reduce the number of weight catagories soon enougg to fit the tv schedule better
    It would be better.

    gester wrote:Can we atleast have Kata Guruma back?
    I don't see the connection between no leg grabs and wrestling presence in the OG.
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    finarashi

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by finarashi on Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:10 pm

    It is not the amount of fights, doing 1,5 h or doing 3 h from same site is about as costly. The main question is how reliably can we predict the starting and ending of exitement. This, so that the advertizing can be fitted in Smile


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    ThePieman

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by ThePieman on Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:33 pm



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    finarashi

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by finarashi on Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:15 am

    There was an inteview of our local OC member. He said that modern pentathlon spent a lot of money 2 years prior to London (as did many sports) lobbying the OC memebers for their sport. They got information packages, DVDs etc. He also stated that as far he can recall there has never been anything from FILA except scilence.

    In spite of the fact that I like watching wrestling and have competed in it; If there was in US a popular vote of which one to include in the Olympics then golf would win hands down.


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    Emanuele2

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by Emanuele2 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:08 am

    I hope karate to be included in OG.
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    finarashi

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by finarashi on Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:22 am

    Emanuele2 wrote:I hope karate to be included in OG.
    Which 'brand'? For karate to be included it would need to be administered under one international federation. Now it is too fragmented.


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    finarashi

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by finarashi on Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:26 am

    Do you think US will then vote for wrestling and not baseball/softball?


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    Emanuele2

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by Emanuele2 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:29 am

    finarashi wrote:
    Emanuele2 wrote:I hope karate to be included in OG.
    Which 'brand'? For karate to be included it would need to be administered under one international federation. Now it is too fragmented.
    Since now until 2012 I hope karate will be unified under a world federation.
    Excluding kyokushin karate (it has his own rules); almost all karate stylea have the same rules in Kumite (fighting). For example, this video represent the last world karate Championship; several styles (shotokan, goju, wado, shito, shorin) competed under a universal fighting standard.
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    finarashi

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by finarashi on Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:10 am

    Emanuele2 wrote:
    finarashi wrote:
    Emanuele2 wrote:I hope karate to be included in OG.
    Which 'brand'? For karate to be included it would need to be administered under one international federation. Now it is too fragmented.
    Since now until 2012 I hope karate will be unified under a world federation.
    Excluding kyokushin karate (it has his own rules); almost all karate stylea have the same rules in Kumite (fighting). For example, this video represent the last world karate Championship; several styles (shotokan, goju, wado, shito, shorin) competed under a universal fighting standard.
    I agree that karate is now much more unified than ever and unification is the way forward.


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    finarashi

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by finarashi on Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:04 am

    and now they have found someone to blame for the wrestling's demise Sad

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/wrestling/21483945


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    seatea

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by seatea on Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:10 pm

    finarashi wrote:and now they have found someone to blame for the wrestling's demise Sad

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/wrestling/21483945
    They got the wrong guy; according to some it's because of a homosexual conspiracy to turn everyone into effete liberals or some such.

    http://www.sportsgrid.com/they-said-what/russian-coach-gays-dropped-wrestling-olympics/

    “If they expel wrestling now, that means that gays will soon run the whole world,” coach Vladimir Uruimagov said, calling the decision “a blow to masculine origins.”
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    Blacksmith

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by Blacksmith on Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:24 pm

    seatea wrote:
    finarashi wrote:and now they have found someone to blame for the wrestling's demise Sad

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/wrestling/21483945
    They got the wrong guy; according to some it's because of a homosexual conspiracy to turn everyone into effete liberals or some such.

    http://www.sportsgrid.com/they-said-what/russian-coach-gays-dropped-wrestling-olympics/

    “If they expel wrestling now, that means that gays will soon run the whole world,” coach Vladimir Uruimagov said, calling the decision “a blow to masculine origins.”


    I can but hope that Coach Uruuimgov's quote lost something in translation. Based on the above, he sounds stupid. Not ignorant - stupid.
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by Ricebale on Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:56 pm

    Blacksmith wrote:
    seatea wrote:
    finarashi wrote:and now they have found someone to blame for the wrestling's demise Sad

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/wrestling/21483945
    They got the wrong guy; according to some it's because of a homosexual conspiracy to turn everyone into effete liberals or some such.

    http://www.sportsgrid.com/they-said-what/russian-coach-gays-dropped-wrestling-olympics/

    “If they expel wrestling now, that means that gays will soon run the whole world,” coach Vladimir Uruimagov said, calling the decision “a blow to masculine origins.”


    I can but hope that Coach Uruuimgov's quote lost something in translation. Based on the above, he sounds stupid. Not ignorant - stupid.

    He may have meant "girly men" which would translate as gays, subtle difference Very Happy
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    seatea

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by seatea on Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:33 pm

    Blacksmith wrote:
    seatea wrote:
    finarashi wrote:and now they have found someone to blame for the wrestling's demise Sad

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/wrestling/21483945
    They got the wrong guy; according to some it's because of a homosexual conspiracy to turn everyone into effete liberals or some such.

    http://www.sportsgrid.com/they-said-what/russian-coach-gays-dropped-wrestling-olympics/

    “If they expel wrestling now, that means that gays will soon run the whole world,” coach Vladimir Uruimagov said, calling the decision “a blow to masculine origins.”


    I can but hope that Coach Uruuimgov's quote lost something in translation. Based on the above, he sounds stupid. Not ignorant - stupid.

    My money is on stupid.

    “If they expel wrestling now, that means that gays will soon run the whole world,” coach Vladimir Uruimagov said, calling the decision “a blow to masculine origins.”

    He added: “It turns out this committee is headed by representative of these minorities,” clarifying that he meant sexual minorities.

    “It is necessary for millions around the world who understand that this is a man’s sport and who understand the need to continue the human race to go out and explain their position to the Olympic Committee,”
    he said. “We should prove and explain that in any other case there is no future.
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    finarashi

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by finarashi on Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:22 pm

    seatea wrote:

    My money is on stupid.

    “If they expel wrestling now, that means that gays will soon run the whole world,” coach Vladimir Uruimagov said, calling the decision “a blow to masculine origins.”

    He added: “It turns out this committee is headed by representative of these minorities,” clarifying that he meant sexual minorities.

    “It is necessary for millions around the world who understand that this is a man’s sport and who understand the need to continue the human race to go out and explain their position to the Olympic Committee,”
    he said. “We should prove and explain that in any other case there is no future.
    .. and this is the rethoric wrestling will use to persuade OC to reinstall them?


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    seatea

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by seatea on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:23 pm

    finarashi wrote:
    seatea wrote:

    My money is on stupid.

    “If they expel wrestling now, that means that gays will soon run the whole world,” coach Vladimir Uruimagov said, calling the decision “a blow to masculine origins.”

    He added: “It turns out this committee is headed by representative of these minorities,” clarifying that he meant sexual minorities.

    “It is necessary for millions around the world who understand that this is a man’s sport and who understand the need to continue the human race to go out and explain their position to the Olympic Committee,”
    he said. “We should prove and explain that in any other case there is no future.
    .. and this is the rethoric wrestling will use to persuade OC to reinstall them?

    I don't think this guy has any significant standing in wrestling (maybe in Russia). It's FILA who must try to get wrestling back on to the 2020 Olympics and incompetence is their sin rather than bigotry.

    EDIT:
    Uruimagov coached Khasan Baroev to Greco-Roman 120 kilogram gold at Athens 2004 and Alan Khugaev to 84 kilogram Greco-Roman gold at London 2012.
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    finarashi

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by finarashi on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:42 pm

    afulldeck wrote:Bloody Elbow wrote a nice piece on this decision. The author made the following major points:

    a) FILA was asleep at the wheel
    b) IOC wanted Greco gone. FILA simply changed the rules
    c) IOC decided to pull rank
    d) Popularity of wrestling is not in question (TV rating are high, participation is high, country involvement high)


    http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/2/13/3984038/olympic-wrestling--ioc-fila-fate-2020-summer-games
    I looked at the London olympics and the men contested greco and freestyle while women contested four categories in freestyle. IOC has sevral times stated that
    - no more competitors
    - no more medals
    - equal opportunity for women
    So I agree that e.g. dropping greco to get space for women would have been logical, but apparently was too painful for FILA.

    I disagree with d) because the things IOC is looking here are not covered
    - how many nations are buying special feeds from that sport? and how much media revenue there is; how many reporters cover sport and how much is written. Figures for this are not publicly available for 2012.
    - How many nations participated in Olympics. OK 29 countries managed to win a medal (18*4 available) but the amount of nations participating was not high. e.g. Judo has reserved a spot for a country which othervise has no representative, not so for wrestling? A newspaper said that only 38 nations participated in London wrestling.
    - How many countries participated in womens WC? I think here is the biggest problem for wrestling to overcome.


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    Ricebale

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    Re: Wrestling dropped by IOC

    Post by Ricebale on Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:03 pm

    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2013/02/14/olympics/japan-wrestling-head-not-ready-to-give-up-fight/#.USCpt5HZUb2

    Interestingly imo japan scores better results in wrestling than judo these days due to their womens prowess, in 2020 japan would be 4 golds poorer

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